Rate Your Character! (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

[MKF30]

I may do more character I use but my main is Raiden, so I'll rate him. This will be for his Thunder Wave.

Offensive options: 3.5/5. Not the worst, not the best he has a few decent mix up options although most of his moves feel slower than other characters I feel his special moves are at times just as good if not better than his norms. 2 of the five KB's are less than desirable, his B2 one will almost never happen in a serious match and his Superman "max distance" you may get here and there but should be easier. I would have rated him 4/5 but his strings as of now are just too damn punishable and slow.

Defensive options: 4/5. Since I'm not a huge fan of rolls in this game, and U2 has no armor I will say his U3 wake up is better for him and utilizing his teleports are key to getting close or far in crucial situations, if your back is to the wall near the corner his teleport is an amazing tool for getting out of trouble, especially if it's against someone like Jax, Black, LK, Sonya people with fast strings, norms etc

Neutral/Footsies: 3/5. His D3 and D4 aren't the fastest but they're good enough to get distance, someone to back off a little. His footsies are meh, I'd say average. His D4 isn't horrible, if his F1, 2 string came out quicker I'd say this is good for checking people at mid range but will say it's just decent since it's slow. His F4, F2 and B1,2 aren't bad though as he can mix it up after them and get throws easier when followed up.

Zoning/Anti zoning: 4.5/5 overall. I would say getting to mid to far screen[or even closer if you want] favors Raiden in a lot cases as he can maneuver around with his teleport and even zone a bit with his lightning strikes and lightning blasts, I think his lightning strike from the sky is a bit underrated from max or far distance it's rather annoying works as a great AA if they jump from a far AA and hits fast to stuff out their projectiles, he can be quite annoying with it. Only if he's facing another teleporter do you have to think about doing this. I've found his zoning and anti zoning quite effective against most of the roster so far though.

Damage output: 4.9/5. His damage is very, very solid, now in terms of opportunities he really only has a few options his B2,1~DB2 AMP, 2,4, and 2, 4, 3 mix ups that lead into his DB2 AMP. But if you can connect these within the match you can get 70% easily with just a few of his combos which is a good portion of your opponent's life for sure. His B2 KB will almost never happen against a solid player, however when it does he's very dangerous with damage as he can easily get anywhere from 30%-50% without much work, even higher if you utilize this with his Fatal Blow which again will be a rare instance as the opportunity needs to present itself. Otherwise, his regular combos on average doing anywhere from 25%-36% on average aren't bad at all. I feel like what he lacks in speed he makes up for in damage output.

Punishing Efficiency: 3.9/5. This one is tough for me because I feel like up close, he's ok on a punish opportunity with F2, 1 coming out pretty quick, F2 and F4 aren't bad but he won't be launching you really fast into a combo that often as much as say someone like Liu Kang, Jax, Sonya etc, etc I feel outside of those and his Superman on reaction(not as good as previous games due to the slight delay so that Raiden can cancel the move) but decent enough, it won't be instant like MK 9.

 

[Eldriken]

I'll contribute my thoughts on Skarlet soon, but I just wanted to say that this has been a pretty amazing thread overall.

Thank you for making it, @M2Dave. This is bringing some great discussion to the forums and it's mostly positive.

Thank you everyone else for your contribution(s), even if it's downplaying.

 

[Cashual]

Fan fare Kitana:

Offensive options: 3/5

Useful safe strings, good options for staggering/mind games. Amazing jump 2. Her float mixups aren’t as good this go around, but there’s definitely still utility there. Good throws. She really doesn’t have true mix, and she’s definitely not oppressive. When kitana commits to a full string it’s now the opponent’s turn. I think kitana is pretty honest, her offense is pretty average or slightly above, but it’s not brain dead.

Neutral/footsies : 5/5

I guess there’s a lot of characters in this game that excel at the mid range, but Kitana is very good here. D1 has a ton of range, d3 is good at 7 frames, and d4 also has a lot of range and somehow d4xxfan is sooo good lol. Great advancing mids, easy hit confirms, decent walk speed, and incredible at whiff punishing—even from good distance.

Zoning/anti-zoning : 3/5

Fan is an ok projectile but honestly not amazing. No mid on amplify and it gets beat out/stuffed on trades/projectile war. IA fan no longer what it was. Her zoning doesn’t lead to unbrekable damage, can’t really do anything with it and can’t keep people out. Maybe I’m underrating it because how powerful it was in mkx? As far as anti zoning....I don’t think she’s got a lot going on there. I guess float or flying butt can navigate around it a bit? I don’t think royal protection is really that good except against very slow projectiles or at full screen, but maybe I just suck too.

Defensive options: 4/5

I rethought about this a little and decided it’s a bit better than I stated previously. Her anti airs especially on crossup jumps are amazing. Her hurtbox practically disappears with d3. She can’t make people pay the way she used to for jumping at her, but she’s not bad there. Her fastest poke/button is d3 at 7f, so she can counterpoke a bit and get her turn back. Her u3 isn’t too bad, but her u2 is a true AA as the hit box is back and upwards. It’s just not good at all for flawless blocking and launching which seems like as the game grows will be big. I think her defense is pretty good early on when an opponent tries to get offensive, but once their in or knock kitana down, it’s not that good.

Damage options : 3.5/5

Her biggest strength here is that she doesn’t really need meter to get ok damage. Her biggest weakness is that at midscreen even with bar she doesn’t hit very hard compared to a lot of the cast. Definitely not a splash damage character and has to win with several touches. The df2 krushing blow is good, and the bf3 and b142 are both in line with her general gameplay style of whiff punishing/winning the neutral. She has always been a very damaging character and used to get 25-35 pretty much off of any stray hit and had some of the best and most open ended conversions in the series and that’s been greatly limited here.

It’s interesting. I think this format sort of undersells how good she is (eg. the total score doesn’t reflect how good she is). I think kitana is pretty much upper mid tier. She’s good, not great. I’d say about half the cast or a little less is better, and half the cast or a bit more is worse.

 

[xKMMx]

Jacqui Briggs (1st Round KO):

I just picked up Jacqui this past weekend to see how she feels and I can tell you although I suck super bad with her it is immediately evident once you start staggering her strings and canceling the F31 into stuff... people are TERRIFIED to push a button.

Gonna keep pushing with her I think she will be my main once I get her down better,

 

[spidey300]

Dude you’re just not right on this one and I’m glad someone came here to say it before me. You literally can not throw projectiles against him. When fullscreen the other player has to just sit there and block instead of throwing things out. Just that fact alone makes him the best zoner/antizoner in the game.

that's not true though. i'd say cassie and sonyas are somewhat fast enough to catch scorpion if he doesn't immediately react. I believe jade's has a revolving hit box so if you immediately react you'll probably get hit by the glaive. if scorpion punishes your projectile with no meter to amp then so what? +5 hit teleport? no one respects that

 

[spidey300]

You’re not taking in consideration the fact that he can cancel it for free pretty much, 1 bar of defensive meter means nothing for him since he can lame people out for days.
He is the best counterzoner easily, at least you can check Jade with some moves as some characters, you have to play Scorpion’s game like it or not and throwing a projectile could mean getting full combo punished, Jade just negates trades but she ain’t getting no full combo punishes on reaction lol

I have. some characters don't have to chase scorpion down. what if they don't respect your teleport cancel? it might give you neutral but it just won't win neutral for you for free.

 

[Qwark28]

Geras is so good that New Era is barely used even though the command throw is the best in the game. I can only imagine what Kotal Kahn players would do to have a throw that carries half screen. LOL.

And doesn't whiff nearly point blank.

And isn't 14f.

And isn't unusuable in the corner because it corners you instead.

And has a krushing blow.

And gives very loopable oki in the corner.

And recovers fast on whiff.

And doesn't whiff during high gravity combos.

 

[M2Dave]

My rating of Scorpion (Reborn)

1. Offensive options – 3/5

Spoiler

Scorpion's offense revolves around f+3 staggers and throws. The best options are f+3,4, f+3 and wait, f+3 and d+1, and f+3 and throw. These staggers are above average yet most definitely substandard in comparison to the other top tier characters' mix ups and pressure. Attempting to poke after f+3 results in a launching krushing blow but only once a match. Hitting f+3,4 for the remainder of the fight leaves Scorpion's opponent out of any okizeme threats. f+3.4 can be flawless blocked and punished by most reversal up 2s so the risk versus reward ratio is in favor of the opponent. Scorpion's forward throw provides okizeme and a krushing blow. The back throw leaves the opponent half a screen away and has no krushing blow. You can cancel strings into teleport which you can also cancel and go for throws, but if your opponent neutral crouches your throw, you eat massive amounts of damage and you cannot breakaway. In my humble opinion, Scorpion's offense is dangerous to apply against the superior rush down characters. He is therefore best used defensively, waiting patiently for the opponent to make a mistake so he can whiff punish with b+1,4,3 or EX teleport.

2. Neutral game and footsies – 5/5

Spoiler

Scorpion's primary mid-range buttons and strings include d+4, a superb long range low poke, f+3, an advancing mid attack that is only -2 on block that has a krushing blow follow up as a counter hit or punish, and b+1,4,3, a safe string that can be hit-confirmed into EX teleport on the second hit. d+4 is used to create space on block or initiate offense on hit. f+3 is best used offensively while b+1 is used for punishing and whiff punishing because of its excellent downward hitbox. One of the best aspects of Scorpion's footsies game is the teleport, which allows you to punish whiffed strings on the ground as well as the air. Speaking of the air, you can jump a lot more with Scorpion than with other characters because of the teleport's ability to bait anti-aerial attacks. If you jump forward, to which your opponent may react and perform an uppercut, you can cancel your teleport and whiff punish the uppercut.

3. Defensive options – 5/5

Spoiler

Wake up 3 is one of the very best in the game because of its speed, hitbox, and safety. Wake up 2 is less impressive but still very good. As far as low pokes are go, Scorpion has a 7 frame d+1 that is +10 on hit and only -3 on block. d+4 is +19 on hit and only -4 on block. d+4 also has a lot of range and some push back on block. Scorpion is the only character who has the ability to retreat as well as switch sides with two distinct teleport cancels so he has the best mobility in the game.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 5/5

Spoiler

The spear is much safer when whiffed than in previous Mortal Kombat games but is still more punishable than the average projectile. Thus Scorpion lacks a traditional zoning tool to stop opponents from advancing forward. However, Scorpion's anti-zoning game is so powerful that any score lower than a five should be regarded as severe downplaying. Scorpion's teleport is easily the best anti-zoning tool in the game because of its ability to be amplified on block, its ability to be performed airborne, and its ability to be canceled. Scorpion's teleport also hits mid and has the fastest startup out of any other teleport in the game. All projectiles must be used scarcely against Scorpion and from a closer distance where the player has a lot less time to react.

5. Damage output – 4/5

Spoiler

Combo damage in Reborn is average at 25-30% with one bar, but he has a couple of beneficial properties to combos that other characters do not. He can spend a second bar for another EX teleport to do more damage. He can also re-stand the opponent with EX spear and follow up with standing 4, which is +18 on hit. If you do not wish to spend more than one bar, you can end combos with either 1,1,2 or spear, both of which leave Scorpion in a good position for okizeme.

Final Rating – 22/25

I am also curious about final ratings and everyone's opinion on which numbers represent which tiers (i.e., 22 - 25 = top tier, 18 - 20 = mid tier, etc.)

 

[Pan1cMode]

My rating of Scorpion (Reborn)

1. Offensive options – 3/5

Spoiler

Scorpion's offense revolves around f+3 staggers and throws. The best options are f+3,4, f+3 and wait, f+3 and d+1, and f+3 and throw. These staggers are above average yet most definitely substandard in comparison to the other top tier characters' mix ups and pressure. Attempting to poke after f+3 results in a launching krushing blow but only once a match. Hitting f+3,4 for the remainder of the fight leaves Scorpion's opponent out of any okizeme threats. f+3.4 can be flawless blocked and punished by most reversal up 2s so the risk versus reward ratio is in favor of the opponent. Scorpion's forward throw provides okizeme and a krushing blow. The back throw leaves the opponent half a screen away and has no krushing blow. You can cancel strings into teleport which you can also cancel and go for throws, but if your opponent neutral crouches your throw, you eat massive amounts of damage and you cannot breakaway. In my humble opinion, Scorpion's offense is dangerous to apply against the superior rush down characters. He is therefore best used defensively, waiting patiently for the opponent to make a mistake so he can whiff punish with b+1,4,3 or EX teleport.

2. Neutral game and footsies – 5/5

Spoiler

Scorpion's primary mid-range buttons and strings include d+4, a superb long range low poke, f+3, an advancing mid attack that is only -2 on block that has a krushing blow follow up as a counter hit or punish, and b+1,4,3, a safe string that can be hit-confirmed into EX teleport on the second hit. d+4 is used to create space on block or initiate offense on hit. f+3 is best used offensively while b+1 is used for punishing and whiff punishing because of its excellent downward hitbox. One of the best aspects of Scorpion's footsies game is the teleport, which allows you to punish whiffed strings on the ground as well as the air. Speaking of the air, you can jump a lot more with Scorpion than with other characters because of the teleport's ability to bait anti-aerial attacks. If you jump forward, to which your opponent may react and perform an uppercut, you can cancel your teleport and whiff punish the uppercut.

3. Defensive options – 5/5

Spoiler

Wake up 3 is one of the very best in the game because of its speed, hitbox, and safety. Wake up 2 is less impressive but still very good. As far as low pokes are go, Scorpion has a 7 frame d+1 that is +10 on hit and only -3 on block. d+4 is +19 on hit and only -4 on block. d+4 also has a lot of range and some push back on block. Scorpion is the only character who has the ability to retreat as well as switch sides with two distinct teleport cancels so he has the best mobility in the game.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 5/5

Spoiler

The spear is much safer when whiffed than in previous Mortal Kombat games but is still more punishable than the average projectile. Thus Scorpion lacks a traditional zoning tool to stop opponents from advancing forward. However, Scorpion's anti-zoning game is so powerful that any score lower than a five should be regarded as severe downplaying. Scorpion's teleport is easily the best anti-zoning tool in the game because of its ability to be amplified on block, its ability to be performed airborne, and its ability to be canceled. Scorpion's teleport also hits mid and has the fastest startup out of any other teleport in the game. All projectiles must be used scarcely against Scorpion and from a closer distance where the player has a lot less time to react.

5. Damage output – 4/5

Spoiler

Combo damage in Reborn is average at 25-30% with one bar, but he has a couple of beneficial properties to combos that other characters do not. He can spend a second bar for another EX teleport to do more damage. He can also re-stand the opponent with EX spear and follow up with standing 4, which is +18 on hit. If you do not wish to spend more than one bar, you can end combos with either 1,1,2 or spear, both of which leave Scorpion in a good position for okizeme.

Final Rating – 22/25

I am also curious about final ratings and everyone's opinion on which numbers represent which tiers (i.e., 22 - 25 = top tier, 18 - 20 = mid tier, etc.)

I’m not sure the ratings directly correlate with tier placement.

For example, an incredibly strong top tier character like Jacqui might score 21-22; losing points in defense, zoning/counterzoning and (potentially) damage.

That’s not to say that Jacqui isn’t top tier, just that the way this is structured doesn’t take into account how strong and oppressive Jacqui’s offense, pressure and Oki game are; covering her lack of zoning and defensive options.

On the other hand, a character like Jax could score 22-23 while not necessarily being as strong or oppressive as the strongest top tiers.

Granted, there is still definitely something to be said about characters with more options ranking higher etc.

 

[Cashual]

I’m not sure the ratings directly correlate with tier placement.

For example, an incredibly strong top tier character like Jacqui might score 21-22; losing points in defense, zoning/counterzoning and (potentially) damage.

That’s not to say that Jacqui isn’t top tier, just that the way this is structured doesn’t take into account how strong and oppressive Jacqui’s offense, pressure and Oki game are; covering her lack of zoning and defensive options.

On the other hand, a character like Jax could score 22-23 while not necessarily being as strong or oppressive as the strongest top tiers.

Granted, there is still definitely something to be said about characters with more options ranking higher etc.

Yeah this is how I feel as well. This is a great thread, don’t get me wrong and it’s fun to explore what makes a character strong and what a character excels at.

There’s some flaws though.

Primarily, I don’t think all the categories should be equally weighted. We would need to discuss and come to a consensus about what truly makes a character great in MK11 as it exists. I think a good start would be to look at the consensus best characters in the game and see what similarities exist between them.

For example— is a 5/5 in defensive options as valuable as 5/5 in offensive options? I don’t think so.

We should determine if 1-2 categories should be out 6 or 7 or maybe a category should be out of a total of 4. Something like that.

Or perhaps individual characters should be able to break the ceiling or floor beyond the 1-5 scale.

Like maybe Scorpion is a 5.5 in antizoning. Just an example, don’t cry.

 

[Cashual]

I have. some characters don't have to chase scorpion down. what if they don't respect your teleport cancel? it might give you neutral but it just won't win neutral for you for free.

I’m sorry man, but ya gotta give it up. If one person tells you something, sure dismiss it. If two people tell you something, hmm...still, maybe it’s not true. If pretty much everyone disagrees with you, you’re probably wrong. And this isn’t game faqs or Reddit, it’s a board made up of players who play the hell out these games, and not just against the AI.

You can’t compare scorpion’s teleport between 11 and X by simply talking about 1-2 frame difference in startup. It’s the context in which the moves exist and other properties that make the difference.

Scorpion’s teleport in MK11 is one of the very best moves in the game and fundamentally changes how the rest of the cast has to move around the stage and what moves they can do. The ability to amplify late on block is totally unique and is drastically different from mkx. The cancels add a whole new level of mindgames and your argument that people don’t respect it or that +5 isn’t respected is shenanigans.

Sorry dog, but you’re downplaying HARD.

 

[kcd117]

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 5/5

Spoiler

The spear is much safer when whiffed than in previous Mortal Kombat games but is still more punishable than the average projectile. Thus Scorpion lacks a traditional zoning tool to stop opponents from advancing forward. However, Scorpion's anti-zoning game is so powerful that any score lower than a five should be regarded as severe downplaying. Scorpion's teleport is easily the best anti-zoning tool in the game because of its ability to be amplified on block, its ability to be performed airborne, and its ability to be canceled. Scorpion's teleport also hits mid and has the fastest startup out of any other teleport in the game. All projectiles must be used scarcely against Scorpion and from a closer distance where the player has a lot less time to react.

I also think his TP can be the best zoning tool in the game in a certain way when he has a life lead. If he retreats you can't jump, you can't throw projectiles, you can't contest his spear, and you can't move without having to stop and block randomly... The constant threat of TP makes you give him room to back off and slows the game down a lot against many characters. It really gives him the power to zone you out and create space when he wants to.

 

[RoboCop]

I’m bored in my hotel, so here is my take on D’Vorah’s zoning variation, purely based on the almost 10 hours I spent in the lab with her yesterday. Please blow me up if any of this is inaccurate.

Offensive options: 4/5
Surprisingly, she’s got some pretty strong offensive options. This is primarily thanks to the range of her normals, but she also has quite a few tricky setups into massive plus frames. Placing an Amplified time bomb bug with the middle bug landing on the opponent creates an exceptionally oppressive situation for her opponent, and allows her free, safe pressure into 20ish% damage while ending with a massive plus-on-block mid setup.

Thanks to a bit of weird block stun and animations, she’s able to stagger strings that she probably shouldn’t be able to, though I imagine that’s mostly due to a lack of matchup knowledge from her opponents.

Her j1 is better than Catwoman’s j2, and jails nicely into her slow-ass mids. It can be combined with her air time bomb bug to keep the opponent guessing and set up free safe pressure.

Defensive options: 4/5
D’Vorah can make it a nightmare to approach. If she gets the life lead, she can lame out pretty damn well. Her d2, df2, and standing 2 are all excellent anti-airs; a good D’Vorah shouldn’t be getting jumped on.

Her ground bug and air time bomb bugs create delayed hitboxes that prevent the opponent from being able to approach at all. Combined with her f2, which reaches about half screen, she can make it a nightmare to approach.

Neutral/Footsies: 5/5
I legit can’t believe I’m giving her these numbers, but seriously, her neutral is really great. Her f2 is almost always a threat, and combined with her zoning and frame traps, creates a situation where the opponent can never get too comfortable. She can set up delayed air and/or ground bugs to keep her opponent locked down from almost anywhere on screen.

Zoning/Anti Zoning: 3/5
Technically she can zone, but the damage output of her zoning is so laughably low that the timer is going to run down long before she ever zones out her opponent. That said, her zoning can still be very difficult for some characters to deal with and allows her to more safely and effectively use her long-ranged normals. It’s better for maintaining a life-lead than actually taking down her opponent, though.

Damage Output: 1/5
What race is D’Vorah? I don’t think her race has a word for “damage”. She can score around 23% for 1 bar if she doesn’t end in a delayed bug setup. This variation only has 1 non-d2 kb, and I believe it only does 15% damage. Wtf, NRS?

Final Score: 17/25

 

[ChatterBox]

Damage Output: 1/5
What race is D’Vorah? I don’t think her race has a word for “damage”. She can score around 23% for 1 bar if she doesn’t end in a delayed bug setup. This variation only has 1 non-d2 kb, and I believe it only does 15% damage. Wtf, NRS?

You need to take a look at her df2 kb. It restands and counts as a launcher so you can combo a j1 into whatever you want. She gets in the 400s easy off of it.

 

[RoboCop]

You need to take a look at her df2 kb. It restands and counts as a launcher so you can combo a j1 into whatever you want. She gets in the 400s easy off of it.

Oh wow, I’ll check that out. And I forgot about the dot, which makes it 20% before any followup.

That said, it’s still sad she has 1 kb other than the universal d2.

 

[M2Dave]

Yeah this is how I feel as well. This is a great thread, don’t get me wrong and it’s fun to explore what makes a character strong and what a character excels at.

There’s some flaws though.

Primarily, I don’t think all the categories should be equally weighted. We would need to discuss and come to a consensus about what truly makes a character great in MK11 as it exists. I think a good start would be to look at the consensus best characters in the game and see what similarities exist between them.

For example— is a 5/5 in defensive options as valuable as 5/5 in offensive options? I don’t think so.

We should determine if 1-2 categories should be out 6 or 7 or maybe a category should be out of a total of 4. Something like that.

Or perhaps individual characters should be able to break the ceiling or floor beyond the 1-5 scale.

Like maybe Scorpion is a 5.5 in antizoning. Just an example, don’t cry.

I am open to suggestions. This system is an old idea from previous Tekken tier lists that I keep copying and adjusting for NRS games.

I also think his TP can be the best zoning tool in the game in a certain way when he has a life lead. If he retreats you can't jump, you can't throw projectiles, you can't contest his spear, and you can't move without having to stop and block randomly... The constant threat of TP makes you give him room to back off and slows the game down a lot against many characters. It really gives him the power to zone you out and create space when he wants to.

I totally agree with you, which is why Scorpion is my best character at the moment.

I remember when pre-patch Deadshot had the best zoning in Injustice 2 and mix ups that were almost as good as what the best rush down characters had. I feel the opposite is true for this game. Sonya, for example, has the most effective and damaging 50/50 mix ups but also the best horizontal projectile. Geras is a rush down character who gets okizeme from every situation but also has the second best anti-zoning tool. Scorpion, as you perfectly described, has better zoning than the zoning characters of the game all because of one special move. I am not implying that these characters are broken, but the gameplay designs are heavily flawed and make little to no sense.

 

[RoboCop]

@M2Dave I’m wondering it meter-dependancy should be a category, or if that would just fall under the Offense category. Like, Kabal basically doesn’t need to ever use meter, while other characters are utterly dependent on it.

 

[spidey300]

I’m sorry man, but ya gotta give it up. If one person tells you something, sure dismiss it. If two people tell you something, hmm...still, maybe it’s not true. If pretty much everyone disagrees with you, you’re probably wrong. And this isn’t game faqs or Reddit, it’s a board made up of players who play the hell out these games, and not just against the AI.

You can’t compare scorpion’s teleport between 11 and X by simply talking about 1-2 frame difference in startup. It’s the context in which the moves exist and other properties that make the difference.

Scorpion’s teleport in MK11 is one of the very best moves in the game and fundamentally changes how the rest of the cast has to move around the stage and what moves they can do. The ability to amplify late on block is totally unique and is drastically different from mkx. The cancels add a whole new level of mindgames and your argument that people don’t respect it or that +5 isn’t respected is shenanigans.

Sorry dog, but you’re downplaying HARD.

I'm not downplaying. I know he's mad good but people are honestly overrating. I hear people saying gerras not the best anymore because of some bad matchups due to unfortunate hitboxes on his strings. I know where this everyone disagreed at but keep trying to rally like 2 people. Half the opinions on those board is trash. I've seen a lot of people on this board say they're trash and all they do is lose so fuck that. He's super good. Just overrated.

 

[lionheart21]

@M2Dave I’m wondering it meter-dependancy should be a category, or if that would just fall under the Offense category. Like, Kabal basically doesn’t need to ever use meter, while other characters are utterly dependent on it.

That part sounds like it would fit more under the damage category, or at least that's what I based it on in my rating of Cassie.

 

[kcd117]

I am open to suggestions. This system is an old idea from previous Tekken tier lists that I keep copying and adjusting for NRS games.

I think adding a new category related to the viability of the character in tournament, ranging from 1 to 10.

For example, I rated Lao as a 20/25, and Jade as a 17/25, but Lao doesn't have that many winning matchups and some of his toughest matchups are against the top tiers (Sonya, Jacqui, Cassie) so if I had to rate his viability in the current meta, in an ft2 I would give him a 4/10 since he isn't really a set play character is less likely to run into a good matchup for him and more likely to run into a bad one as top tiers are always the most used characters in tournaments. I would give Jade an 8/10 bc she is a difficult matchup for a lot of characters and at the same time does very good against all the top tiers with the exception of Scorpion. I gave Kano a 16/25 but and in this category, I would give him a 5/10 given the fact that he is a set play character and probably goes even against the entire cast so he can work in an ft2 scenario, just not as easy as some other characters. Imo characters like Geras, Sonya, Erron, Scorpion, Jacquie, Cassie should have a solid 10/10 in this category.

Btw this category should take into consideration: Playstyle effectiveness in a ft2 (how easy/hard is it to adjust to my character in a short set? How easy/hard is it to keep him from doing what he wants to do? How much player/character unfamiliarity takes part when playing against him in tournament?) and matchups (How likely is my character to run into a bad/good matchups? Who are these bad matchups? How likely am I to hard counter someone or get hard countered?).

 

[Matix218]

My rating of Scorpion (Reborn)

1. Offensive options – 3/5

Spoiler

Scorpion's offense revolves around f+3 staggers and throws. The best options are f+3,4, f+3 and wait, f+3 and d+1, and f+3 and throw. These staggers are above average yet most definitely substandard in comparison to the other top tier characters' mix ups and pressure. Attempting to poke after f+3 results in a launching krushing blow but only once a match. Hitting f+3,4 for the remainder of the fight leaves Scorpion's opponent out of any okizeme threats. f+3.4 can be flawless blocked and punished by most reversal up 2s so the risk versus reward ratio is in favor of the opponent. Scorpion's forward throw provides okizeme and a krushing blow. The back throw leaves the opponent half a screen away and has no krushing blow. You can cancel strings into teleport which you can also cancel and go for throws, but if your opponent neutral crouches your throw, you eat massive amounts of damage and you cannot breakaway. In my humble opinion, Scorpion's offense is dangerous to apply against the superior rush down characters. He is therefore best used defensively, waiting patiently for the opponent to make a mistake so he can whiff punish with b+1,4,3 or EX teleport.

2. Neutral game and footsies – 5/5

Spoiler

Scorpion's primary mid-range buttons and strings include d+4, a superb long range low poke, f+3, an advancing mid attack that is only -2 on block that has a krushing blow follow up as a counter hit or punish, and b+1,4,3, a safe string that can be hit-confirmed into EX teleport on the second hit. d+4 is used to create space on block or initiate offense on hit. f+3 is best used offensively while b+1 is used for punishing and whiff punishing because of its excellent downward hitbox. One of the best aspects of Scorpion's footsies game is the teleport, which allows you to punish whiffed strings on the ground as well as the air. Speaking of the air, you can jump a lot more with Scorpion than with other characters because of the teleport's ability to bait anti-aerial attacks. If you jump forward, to which your opponent may react and perform an uppercut, you can cancel your teleport and whiff punish the uppercut.

3. Defensive options – 5/5

Spoiler

Wake up 3 is one of the very best in the game because of its speed, hitbox, and safety. Wake up 2 is less impressive but still very good. As far as low pokes are go, Scorpion has a 7 frame d+1 that is +10 on hit and only -3 on block. d+4 is +19 on hit and only -4 on block. d+4 also has a lot of range and some push back on block. Scorpion is the only character who has the ability to retreat as well as switch sides with two distinct teleport cancels so he has the best mobility in the game.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 5/5

Spoiler

The spear is much safer when whiffed than in previous Mortal Kombat games but is still more punishable than the average projectile. Thus Scorpion lacks a traditional zoning tool to stop opponents from advancing forward. However, Scorpion's anti-zoning game is so powerful that any score lower than a five should be regarded as severe downplaying. Scorpion's teleport is easily the best anti-zoning tool in the game because of its ability to be amplified on block, its ability to be performed airborne, and its ability to be canceled. Scorpion's teleport also hits mid and has the fastest startup out of any other teleport in the game. All projectiles must be used scarcely against Scorpion and from a closer distance where the player has a lot less time to react.

5. Damage output – 4/5

Spoiler

Combo damage in Reborn is average at 25-30% with one bar, but he has a couple of beneficial properties to combos that other characters do not. He can spend a second bar for another EX teleport to do more damage. He can also re-stand the opponent with EX spear and follow up with standing 4, which is +18 on hit. If you do not wish to spend more than one bar, you can end combos with either 1,1,2 or spear, both of which leave Scorpion in a good position for okizeme.

Final Rating – 22/25

I am also curious about final ratings and everyone's opinion on which numbers represent which tiers (i.e., 22 - 25 = top tier, 18 - 20 = mid tier, etc.)

As a Reborn player I 100% agree with this assessment

 

[Wetdoba]

I knew a handful of people were going to enter this thread and massively downplay their character. However, most posts have been reasonable and I appreciate people's contribution and honesty. If I have some time, I may compile the most accurate ratings and discuss them in the podcast with REO and Tom.

That's fair its just every time this thread is made for each game its the obvious downplaying that makes the thread a fun read. I'll share mine though


Shao Kahn - Risen Emperor

Offensive options: 4/5

• plus 6 big boot, frame traps into 10 frame confirmable mid stagger or frame trap into throw
• very good knockdowns allowing oki anywhere on screen and options to side switch into oki off any combo. Oki off throws in the corner and safe jumps off any combo in corner
• one of the longest reaching short hop overheads, reaches farther than most wake ups
• any combo midscreen takes you straight to the corner

Defensive options: 4/5

• some of the best wake ups/reversals in the game, long range and fast
• absolutely godlike anti air options: top 3 d2 (9 frames with hammer), 7 frame AA grab that can side switch, high/far reaching S1, B3 launcher, S2 with hammer. -1 point for not having great options against cross over jumps tho, classic big body struggle

Neutral/footsies: 4.5/5

• insane space control options at midscreen between grounded and anti air hammer normals and f4 into pressure when you respect them. 1 whiff punish = full ride to the corner. -2 advancing sweep that is plus 28 on hit. Shimmy game is disgusting
• 16 frame launching reversal for ranged punishes
• this becomes a 5/5 with a few minor hitbox fixes

Zoning / anti zoning: 3/5

• nothing crazy here but doesnt really struggle either. Spear doesnt do damage but 1 trade or hit is all he needs to get in for free after with safe meaty hammer lunge. Hammer lunge can also jump projectiles but this is harder against some

Damage output: 4/5

• F3 is a 10 frame mid confirm into full combo with solid damage and corner carry. They have to respect this any time its Shaos turn.
• 2 bar damage in corner with no krushing blows can reach over 40%
• with krushing blows gets 45% plus 1 bar and roughly 55% 2 bar bnbs. Throw krushing blow the strongest with option to cash out on one punish into big damage.
• 1 point for priest buff being difficult to get out due to recovery. If this was made shorter this category would be an easy 5/5 because he gets damage boost to all bnbs, KB combo, and 20% throws

Total: 19.5/25

 

[Wetdoba]

Baraka Marauder:

Offensive Options: 3/5
No real mixups or good pressure. Throw range is pretty good though. I'll add a point for chop chop shenanigans. Even though I think it is punishable and will eventually be kind of a gimmick, good players are still being hit by it so meh.

Neutral Game: 5/5
Some characters have better ranged normals but not many. Between F44, D4, DF1, DF3, F2 and his good walkspeed his neutral is very strong.

Defensive Options: 4/5
Seems pretty average. D1 is average, Wakeup U3 has a nice hitbox but Wakeup U2 can be jumped over pretty easily. DF1 does allow poke checks from range though which is really nice. His D2 is really good though so that gets an extra point maybe.

Zoning and Anti-Zoning: 3/5
Spark is actually really good in this game for conditioning, although it can be ducked under. He can't outzone zoning characters and loses some trades but overall his zoning is pretty solid. His walkspeed and wavedash is pretty good for getting in too.

Damage Output: 5/5
Has the best damage output in the game with KBs and even without. Pretty easy 5/5

20/25

Bone Picker Baraka:

Offensive Options: 4/5
Has a lot more mixups in this variation involving finishing a string or using tick throws. Has particularly strong oki being able to lunge again on wakeups or getups.

Neutral Game: 3/5
Loses DF1 and DF3 which is pretty big for his neutral. Still has F4, D4 etc. so isn't that bad. Blood lunge has nice range but you won't want to throw it out too much in neutral now that it can be punished by D2 KB.

Defensive Options: 2/5
Same as the other one except DF1 can no longer be used to check moves with pushback which hurts a little. Spines is a pretty good AA though.

Zoning and Anti-Zoning: 3/5
Same as Marauder since Spark is in both variations.

Damage Output: 2/5
Has no midscreen combos unless spines AAs at the height of their jump. Has combos in the corner but they are still nothing compared to really high damage characters. Only reason this isn't 1/5 is because with blood lunge you can convert off of almost any hit while they are aerial.

Overall 14/25

Your analysis of bone picker is completely wrong im sorry. How could you not give a 5/5 for offense when he has safe staggerable low, -2 fast sweep, advancing mid thats plus at max range, plus on block d4, 2 plus on block strings, a safe meterless special that grants oki on hit so no confirms need, safe ranged overhead, and a ranged command grab.

You are also massively downplaying spine burst. You say defense for marauder is 4/5 because of a poke but only 2/5 for bone picker when it makes everything he does safe, removes the gaps to flawless block in his strings, and is an 8 frame low profiling AA that hits both sides. You should also add 1 point at least to zoning and anti zoning due to spine burst combined with blade spark if blade spark alone warrants a 3/5. Spine burst is amazing for hitting jump back projectiles like kabals and can be used to safely anti air scorpion doing a jump into tele because it hits both sides.

Imo Bone picker should look like:

Offense: 5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 5/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
Damage: 2/5

Total: 20

 

[Zoidberg747]

Your analysis of bone picker is completely wrong im sorry. How could you not give a 5/5 for offense when he has safe staggerable low, -2 fast sweep, advancing mid thats plus at max range, plus on block d4, 2 plus on block strings, a safe meterless special that grants oki on hit so no confirms need, safe ranged overhead, and a ranged command grab.

You are also massively downplaying spine burst. You say defense for marauder is 4/5 because of a poke but only 2/5 for bone picker when it makes everything he does safe, removes the gaps to flawless block in his strings, and is an 8 frame low profiling AA that hits both sides. You should also add 1 point at least to zoning and anti zoning due to spine burst combined with blade spark if blade spark alone warrants a 3/5. Spine burst is amazing for hitting jump back projectiles like kabals and can be used to safely anti air scorpion doing a jump into tele because it hits both sides.

Imo Bone picker should look like:

Offense: 5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 5/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
Damage: 2/5

Total: 20

I've played Bone Picker in tournament and tried to make him work, but he's not that good, especially after Command Grab's being able to be punished by D2 KBs.

I gave him a 4/5 because his offense is high risk. If I go for a tick throw and they neutral duck, I get punished for a full combo. Sure you can stagger B3 or do F4 pressure but he isn't as good as say Jacqui Briggs offense. 112 can be flawless blocked btw as most of my training partners have been doing forever. 2 1+3 is super slow and has pushback so its not like you are going to make use of the plus frames, although I do use it a lot to catch people trying to whiff punish 2. To be clear his offense is still really good, 4/5 is more than a lot of characters and Marauder. But 5/5 should be reserved for characters with safe pressure and mixups like Geras, Erron, and Jacqui.

I'd maybe give one more point for Defense because Spines are a great AA. The rest has nothing to do with defense. DF1 is a huge defensive tool that spines can't make up for. Spines is good, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't say it moves up defense two point.

I could maybe see 1 more in anti-zoning for spines, maybe. Most players who know the matchup stop throwing air projectiles when they get in spines range so you won't be hitting them with it and against characters like Jade or Cetrion getting to that range is the hard part. I will say Bone Picker is slightly better against zoning characters, but not by much. Those are rough for him in either variation.

Overall though 20/25 is way too high, that's where Marauder is imo and Bone Picker is not nearly as good as much as I want it to be. There is a reason guys like DJT who were playing Bone Picker switched to Marauder, it is the better variation plain and simple. I could maybe give Bone Picker 17/25 to show that he is still a high/mid tier character, but the more i've played him and seen people get used to the matchup the harder it has been to make him work.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I've played Bone Picker in tournament and tried to make him work, but he's not that good, especially after Command Grab's being able to be punished by D2 KBs.

I gave him a 4/5 because his offense is high risk. If I go for a tick throw and they neutral duck, I get punished for a full combo. Sure you can stagger B3 or do F4 pressure but he isn't as good as say Jacqui Briggs offense. 112 can be flawless blocked btw as most of my training partners have been doing forever. 2 1+3 is super slow and has pushback so its not like you are going to make use of the plus frames, although I do use it a lot to catch people trying to whiff punish 2. To be clear his offense is still really good, 4/5 is more than a lot of characters and Marauder. But 5/5 should be reserved for characters with safe pressure and mixups like Geras, Erron, and Jacqui.

I'd maybe give one more point for Defense because Spines are a great AA. The rest has nothing to do with defense. DF1 is a huge defensive tool that spines can't make up for. Spines is good, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't say it moves up defense two point.

I could maybe see 1 more in anti-zoning for spines, maybe. Most players who know the matchup stop throwing air projectiles when they get in spines range so you won't be hitting them with it and against characters like Jade or Cetrion getting to that range is the hard part. I will say Bone Picker is slightly better against zoning characters, but not by much. Those are rough for him in either variation.

Overall though 20/25 is way too high, that's where Marauder is imo and Bone Picker is not nearly as good as much as I want it to be. There is a reason guys like DJT who were playing Bone Picker switched to Marauder, it is the better variation plain and simple. I could maybe give Bone Picker 17/25 to show that he is still a high/mid tier character, but the more i've played him and seen people get used to the matchup the harder it has been to make him work.

I agree with this 100%. I main Maruader but tinker with Bone picker and IMO hes just not as good in a few areas.