Rate Your Character! (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Geras Infinite Warden:

Offense 5/5
Confirmable mid string. Every touch leads to 50/50 oki including throws. Splash.

Neutral 4/5

Defense 5/5
Best and farthest reaching d1 in the game. Best FB u2 in the game.

Zoning 5/5
Best zoning tool in the entire game and on the level of pre patch deadshot high shot. Unreactable safe low that leads to 50/50 and punishes many "zoning characters" best zoning tools.

Damage 5/5
Top 2 in the game for one bar.


24/25 He has the best of a lot of things in this game.



Jacqui
Offense 5/5
Neutral 5/5
Defense 5/5
Zoning 3/5 Yes her dash punch anti zoning falls into the zoning category.
Damage 4/5

Total 22/25

 

[Brown Cow 54]

I mean mkx scorpion teleport was just better for combos and better for punishing projectiles. I've literally caught another scorpion out of his teleport with spear in mk11. I'm not downplaying. I would never downplay. I know scorpion has some very strong tools but people are honestly overrating him and making him out to be just this god of mk11. I'll give his zoning/antizoning a 4 but that's it. I'll say alright scorpion's teleport is slightly harder to punish in mk11 but only slightly

Dude you’re just not right on this one and I’m glad someone came here to say it before me. You literally can not throw projectiles against him. When fullscreen the other player has to just sit there and block instead of throwing things out. Just that fact alone makes him the best zoner/antizoner in the game.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I mean mkx scorpion teleport was just better for combos and better for punishing projectiles. I've literally caught another scorpion out of his teleport with spear in mk11. I'm not downplaying. I would never downplay. I know scorpion has some very strong tools but people are honestly overrating him and making him out to be just this god of mk11. I'll give his zoning/antizoning a 4 but that's it. I'll say alright scorpion's teleport is slightly harder to punish in mk11 but only slightly

You’re not taking in consideration the fact that he can cancel it for free pretty much, 1 bar of defensive meter means nothing for him since he can lame people out for days.
He is the best counterzoner easily, at least you can check Jade with some moves as some characters, you have to play Scorpion’s game like it or not and throwing a projectile could mean getting full combo punished, Jade just negates trades but she ain’t getting no full combo punishes on reaction lol

 

[Wetdoba]

Downplay Your Character! (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Jax - Hunker Down

1. Offensive options – 4/5

• Top 5 fatal blow
• 9 frame hit confirmable mid that can stagger, and 13 frame staggerable mid that ends in a 50/50 mix up.
• 330% damage forward throw KB with fully heated arms. No need to have a throw "escape failed" to get it.
• KB requirements are easily obtainable each match. (Fully charging B2, Fully heated overhead after F2 or F33, Fully heated forward throw, universal D2) The only one that's not super easy is his command grab. You have to hit each grab at the last possible moment it can be hit. Sometimes it's scary that you could drop the combo.
• +4 restand in the corner with gotcha grab 4.

2. Neutral game and footsies – 4/5

• Great range on his F2 and command grab dash punch.
• His buttons can reach far enough to catch wakeup back rolls. Very good at backing up and then whiff punishing.
• Has a S1 that works great as an AA (And is easy to get decent damage after with things like 1 dash 12 gotcha grab or dash into F2 1+3), as well as, an AA special in bf4.
• Can carry his opponent closer to the corner with gotcha grab 2.

3. Defensive options – 4/5

• Great U3 with hella range. 7 frame D1 (with a hit adv of +13, so it gives you his 9F F3 or 13 frame F2 after) that can be turned into a D12 to make hit confirming easier.
• Garbage U2 that seems to whiff on most jumps unless its a forward arching jump.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 2/5

• Gets bodied by zoning.
• His best anti zoning is in GB variation.
• His best anti zoning in HD is ex ground pound, but it's really slow start up and low blockable. His heated arms projectiles are also decent, but obviously require you to hit your opponent or charge them up with DD3 or ex DD3 with are both fairly slow and usually end with jax getting hit with a projectile.

Added a point because If he has fatal blow he can use it to close the distance or punish a projectile by eating it with the armor.

5. Damage output – 3/5
Only does 17-20% per touch midscreen unless KBs are utilized. Then he can get 30-50%.

17/25

 

[Vslayer]

Cassie Cage 20/25

1. Offensive options – 5/5: Good tools overall, 2 low combo starters (tho they're slow), advancing combo starter, and she has a restand so she's automatically S tier. God like 9 frame punish tool (F4) and useful staggers (b2, d4). Damaging punish combo starter (111).

2. Neutral game and footsies – 4/5 : very good advancing combo starter, very good anti-airs (B3, S1). Walk speed is fast, backward walk speed is a bit slower tho.

3. Defensive options – 3/5 : her D2 hitbox is non-existent so goodbye pushback on block. Her U2 is useless unless you're in the corner and the opponent somehow doesn't hit you since it's not armored. U3 is good in certain situations (in the corner and on knockdown pressure) but punishable on whiff. Her FB start-up and animation is dumb. D4 is really good to control space and keep opponents off of you.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 5/5 : low gunshot, 'nuff said. Using air bullet barrage to end combos to put opponents who have trouble getting in full screen.

5. Damage output – 3/5 : 25-30% for one bar, and a bit more if you use two bars so it's practically useless to waste a second bar in one single combo. Meterless damage is laughable.

 

[ChatterBox]

If this is the downplay thread then @Clark L. @kcd117 and I must be playing the best character ever made, Kung Lao. He's good and I was gonna say similar to these two so now I don't have to.

 

[Clark L.]

If this is the downplay thread then @Clark L. @kcd117 and I must be playing the best character ever made, Kung Lao. He's good and I was gonna say similar to these two so now I don't have to.

It’s just a lot of people are like, my character doesn’t have the best 50/50 fighting games have to offer, so offense 1/5.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Cetrion Spring Cleaning

Offense 2/5
Neutral 4/5
Defense 4/5

Zoning 4/5 (Her and skarlet have the best traditional zoning in the game. Although relative to this game and how many characters don't care i.e. sub, scorp, more... Surprisingly the best zoning character/run away character in the game is scorpion. Geras also has the number 1 zoning tool in the game in low sand. It is a faster from the deep that is safe vs almost the entire cast and it is unreactable. It all gives you a 50/50 oki situation.

Damage 2/5

Final tally 16/25

I mean, cetrion has one of the best teleports in the game. Works on the ground and in the air as well as having amazing projectiles and full screen frame traps; I’m not sure how she doesn’t get a 5/5 in zoning/counterzoning.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The mere fact that both of Geras's throws guarantee okizeme, which is very rare in this game, means that the character cannot logically receive a score lower than a four for offensive options. He also has one of the best mid strings in the game as well as a 50/50 mix up from a safe jab string that has a krushing blow.

Geras is so good that New Era is barely used even though the command throw is the best in the game. I can only imagine what Kotal Kahn players would do to have a throw that carries half screen. LOL.

Offense like this was the only reason I didn't give Jacqui a 4/5. I feel that I can be passive against Jacqui for a while, and at most eat a throw at some point for my blocking, which then resets the situation. I don't feel that I can be passive against either Geras or Sonya, as Geras' pressure loop, Sonya's mix (plus her restand when she wants it), and their full-screen options combined with the fact that you may still eat mix while being defensive forces you to constantly make a read and move or take initiative to interrupt them first.

It's weird saying this although I feel Geras was actually overrated on the whole at launch. But taken by itself, his pure offense is definitely not.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Jacqui
Offense 5/5
Neutral 5/5
Defense 5/5
Zoning 3/5 Yes her dash punch anti zoning falls into the zoning category.
Damage 4/5

Total 22/25

How does Jacqui get 5/5 for defense? I’m not saying she’s helpless by any means, but her reversal are average, her wake ups are ok and she lacks a 6 frame d1.

You gave Geras a 5/5, do you think Jacqui’s defensive options are as good as Geras’?

 

[UPR_Nova]

@STB Sgt Reed said it pretty well but I'd like to give Jax more love for a few different reasons.

Jax - Hunker Down

1. Offensive options - 5/5

• Will damn near always get most of his KBs during a match. I've honestly found the one that you don't get the most is off of the 1+3 ender. I don't think I've had a match where I didn't get the heated arms projectile KB. Next in line is the command grab because you can end any airborne combo with it for well over 50%. The threat of heated arms with a forward throw honestly opens up MORE potential for stagger and back throw.
• Staggers are next level nasty
• Safe gap closer in amp bf2
• Dumb fatal blow
• Crazy corner restand
• Can blow up wake-up attacks with j2 into fully charged b2. This is better than doing a raw b2 on read.

2. Neutral game and footsies - 5/5

• His normal anti air in standing 1 leads to a KB full combo twice, once with heated arm projectiles and once with the command grab. He also has the bf4 air grab that can also be amplified. You really cant jump too much against the character.
• Nasty jump kick. You can hit confirm bf4 from jump kick from any range, and from up close, you can hit confirm into d12, d12 for a command grab KB or even a heated arm projectile KB if the situation is right. It's hitbox is also great in that it isn't too vertical or horizontal. This one may be a little opinionated but I think it's one of the better jump kicks in the entire game, especially considering what it leads to.
• F2 is a solid button for a ranged attack. The overhead makes it a little more difficult to whiff punish but still, you don't wanna go around whiffing that button.
• Bf2, although unsafe, is great for neutral. You can amplify for the grab or you can KB punish from max distance. Little risky without the amp but you still have an opportunity for a KB.
• Dumb d4. You can even get silly with it and cancel into shenanigans with amp ground pound and amp bf2. Nothing to be relied upon, but it's there.
• Low profiling d3
• D12 is the only multi-hitting poke in the game (I believe). This will be considered for defensive options as well.

3. Defensive options - 5/5

• D12 as a multi-hitting poke
• Dumb range on u3 wake-up
• Flawless block reversals with u2 lead to 2 KBs per match if you can get them. One with the command grab ender and one with the heated arms projectile ender. Once people (including me) start to utilize flawless blocks on return pressure they are negative, Jax will be even more of a threat up close. Purposefully ending pressure with f2, 1+3 and waiting for a slower return button to flawless block it and KB full combo punish is very satisfying. This is also very good against jump attacks.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning - 3/5

• Honestly depends on the match-up. If he can get zoning going, it's great. If he's getting zoned out, it sucks. I say above average because he has solid tools unless you are playing a character like Cetrion.
• Thumper is a decent trade for the most part, Up thumper is really good when you are able to zone without care to catch jumpers.
• Ground pound is solid. Amp ground pound catches people a lot.
• Heated arms are great but they require...heat
• Bf2 is good for getting in on zoners, especially amp bf2. Regular is good if you are scouting for the KB but you will get blown up if you make the wrong read.
• I think his zoning is underrated by most but that's just my opinion

5. Damage output - 3/5

• KBs are required for damage
• Punishes are weak unless you commit to command grab KB for the punish or get an anti air
• Gave above average because KB damage is actually ridiculous and is very practical
• Couldn't go to a 4/5 because you have characters that get dumb damage off of a single touch without KBs

I strongly believe that this is the most slept on and underused character in the game. I finally have a game that I can use one character and I don't need another for 5 - 10 match-ups. Grinnin' Barrett will give added utility for difficult match-ups (Cetrion is a prime example of that).

21/25

 

[Dreamcatcher]

@STB Sgt Reed said it pretty well but I'd like to give Jax more love for a few different reasons.

Jax - Hunker Down

1. Offensive options - 5/5

• Will damn near always get most of his KBs during a match. I've honestly found the one that you don't get the most is off of the 1+3 ender. I don't think I've had a match where I didn't get the heated arms projectile KB. Next in line is the command grab because you can end any airborne combo with it for well over 50%. The threat of heated arms with a forward throw honestly opens up MORE potential for stagger and back throw.
• Staggers are next level nasty
• Safe gap closer in amp bf2
• Dumb fatal blow
• Crazy corner restand
• Can blow up wake-up attacks with j2 into fully charged b2. This is better than doing a raw b2 on read.

2. Neutral game and footsies - 5/5

• His normal anti air in standing 1 leads to a KB full combo twice, once with heated arm projectiles and once with the command grab. He also has the bf4 air grab that can also be amplified. You really cant jump too much against the character.
• Nasty jump kick. You can hit confirm bf4 from jump kick from any range, and from up close, you can hit confirm into d12, d12 for a command grab KB or even a heated arm projectile KB if the situation is right. It's hitbox is also great in that it isn't too vertical or horizontal. This one may be a little opinionated but I think it's one of the better jump kicks in the entire game, especially considering what it leads to.
• F2 is a solid button for a ranged attack. The overhead makes it a little more difficult to whiff punish but still, you don't wanna go around whiffing that button.
• Bf2, although unsafe, is great for neutral. You can amplify for the grab or you can KB punish from max distance. Little risky without the amp but you still have an opportunity for a KB.
• Dumb d4. You can even get silly with it and cancel into shenanigans with amp ground pound and amp bf2. Nothing to be relied upon, but it's there.
• Low profiling d3
• D12 is the only multi-hitting poke in the game (I believe). This will be considered for defensive options as well.

3. Defensive options - 5/5

• D12 as a multi-hitting poke
• Dumb range on u3 wake-up
• Flawless block reversals with u2 lead to 2 KBs per match if you can get them. One with the command grab ender and one with the heated arms projectile ender. Once people (including me) start to utilize flawless blocks on return pressure they are negative, Jax will be even more of a threat up close. Purposefully ending pressure with f2, 1+3 and waiting for a slower return button to flawless block it and KB full combo punish is very satisfying. This is also very good against jump attacks.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning - 3/5

• Honestly depends on the match-up. If he can get zoning going, it's great. If he's getting zoned out, it sucks. I say above average because he has solid tools unless you are playing a character like Cetrion.
• Thumper is a decent trade for the most part, Up thumper is really good when you are able to zone without care to catch jumpers.
• Ground pound is solid. Amp ground pound catches people a lot.
• Heated arms are great but they require...heat
• Bf2 is good for getting in on zoners, especially amp bf2. Regular is good if you are scouting for the KB but you will get blown up if you make the wrong read.
• I think his zoning is underrated by most but that's just my opinion

5. Damage output - 3/5

• KBs are required for damage
• Punishes are weak unless you commit to command grab KB for the punish or get an anti air
• Gave above average because KB damage is actually ridiculous and is very practical
• Couldn't go to a 4/5 because you have characters that get dumb damage off of a single touch without KBs

I strongly believe that this is the most slept on and underused character in the game. I finally have a game that I can use one character and I don't need another for 5 - 10 match-ups. Grinnin' Barrett will give added utility for difficult match-ups (Cetrion is a prime example of that).

21/25

I agree with this one more. Jax would be S tier if his damage output and full screen game weren't average.

 

[M2Dave]

Downplay Your Character! (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

I knew a handful of people were going to enter this thread and massively downplay their character. However, most posts have been reasonable and I appreciate people's contribution and honesty. If I have some time, I may compile the most accurate ratings and discuss them in the podcast with REO and Tom.

Cetrion Spring Cleaning

Offense 2/5
Neutral 4/5
Defense 4/5

Zoning 4/5 (Her and skarlet have the best traditional zoning in the game. Although relative to this game and how many characters don't care i.e. sub, scorp, more... Surprisingly the best zoning character/run away character in the game is scorpion. Geras also has the number 1 zoning tool in the game in low sand. It is a faster from the deep that is safe vs almost the entire cast and it is unreactable. It all gives you a 50/50 oki situation.

Damage 2/5

Final tally 16/25

I agree with you about Geras and Scorpion, but not every character has a mid-hitting teleport and low sand trap so Cetrion's zoning is 5/5.

Jax - Hunker Down

1. Offensive options – 4/5

• Top 5 fatal blow
• 9 frame hit confirmable mid that can stagger, and 13 frame staggerable mid that ends in a 50/50 mix up.
• 330% damage forward throw KB with fully heated arms. No need to have a throw "escape failed" to get it.
• KB requirements are easily obtainable each match. (Fully charging B2, Fully heated overhead after F2 or F33, Fully heated forward throw, universal D2) The only one that's not super easy is his command grab. You have to hit each grab at the last possible moment it can be hit. Sometimes it's scary that you could drop the combo.
• +4 restand in the corner with gotcha grab 4.

2. Neutral game and footsies – 4/5

• Great range on his F2 and command grab dash punch.
• His buttons can reach far enough to catch wakeup back rolls. Very good at backing up and then whiff punishing.
• Has a S1 that works great as an AA (And is easy to get decent damage after with things like 1 dash 12 gotcha grab or dash into F2 1+3), as well as, an AA special in bf4.
• Can carry his opponent closer to the corner with gotcha grab 2.

3. Defensive options – 4/5

• Great U3 with hella range. 7 frame D1 (with a hit adv of +13, so it gives you his 9F F3 or 13 frame F2 after) that can be turned into a D12 to make hit confirming easier.
• Garbage U2 that seems to whiff on most jumps unless its a forward arching jump.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 2/5

• Gets bodied by zoning.
• His best anti zoning is in GB variation.
• His best anti zoning in HD is ex ground pound, but it's really slow start up and low blockable. His heated arms projectiles are also decent, but obviously require you to hit your opponent or charge them up with DD3 or ex DD3 with are both fairly slow and usually end with jax getting hit with a projectile.

Added a point because If he has fatal blow he can use it to close the distance or punish a projectile by eating it with the armor.

5. Damage output – 3/5
Only does 17-20% per touch midscreen unless KBs are utilized. Then he can get 30-50%.

17/25

Good rating overall.

Offense is likely 5/5 because Jax is the only character other than Geras who gets guaranteed okizeme from both throws. I think getting okizeme from throws is more important than getting krushing blows. The point is Jax gets okizeme from his main strings (f+2,1+3 and f+3,3,1+3), his throws, and his combos (gotcha grab 2).

I also think damage is 4/5. Jax has limited combos like Jade. However, if you watch Gunshow play, he hits the krushing blows on (f+2,1+3 and f+3,3,1+3), double amplified command grab, and double heated missiles, which account for like 80% of damage, almost every match. Jax has the second best krushing blows behind Geras.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Baraka Marauder:

Offensive Options: 3/5
No real mixups or good pressure. Throw range is pretty good though. I'll add a point for chop chop shenanigans. Even though I think it is punishable and will eventually be kind of a gimmick, good players are still being hit by it so meh.

Neutral Game: 5/5
Some characters have better ranged normals but not many. Between F44, D4, DF1, DF3, F2 and his good walkspeed his neutral is very strong.

Defensive Options: 4/5
Seems pretty average. D1 is average, Wakeup U3 has a nice hitbox but Wakeup U2 can be jumped over pretty easily. DF1 does allow poke checks from range though which is really nice. His D2 is really good though so that gets an extra point maybe.

Zoning and Anti-Zoning: 3/5
Spark is actually really good in this game for conditioning, although it can be ducked under. He can't outzone zoning characters and loses some trades but overall his zoning is pretty solid. His walkspeed and wavedash is pretty good for getting in too.

Damage Output: 5/5
Has the best damage output in the game with KBs and even without. Pretty easy 5/5

20/25

Bone Picker Baraka:

Offensive Options: 4/5
Has a lot more mixups in this variation involving finishing a string or using tick throws. Has particularly strong oki being able to lunge again on wakeups or getups.

Neutral Game: 3/5
Loses DF1 and DF3 which is pretty big for his neutral. Still has F4, D4 etc. so isn't that bad. Blood lunge has nice range but you won't want to throw it out too much in neutral now that it can be punished by D2 KB.

Defensive Options: 2/5
Same as the other one except DF1 can no longer be used to check moves with pushback which hurts a little. Spines is a pretty good AA though.

Zoning and Anti-Zoning: 3/5
Same as Marauder since Spark is in both variations.

Damage Output: 2/5
Has no midscreen combos unless spines AAs at the height of their jump. Has combos in the corner but they are still nothing compared to really high damage characters. Only reason this isn't 1/5 is because with blood lunge you can convert off of almost any hit while they are aerial.

Overall 14/25

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

• Can blow up wake-up attacks with j2 into fully charged b2. This is better than doing a raw b2 on read.

DIdn't know about this, please inform me! XD
Cause I usually just full charge b2 after a quick step back if I think they are gonna forward roll or u2/u3 wakeup.

I don't necessarily disagree with your posts, but I feel the lack of damage without KB and the weakness vs zoning really hinders him more than a 21/25 rating. 20+ to me is top top tier, whereas 17-20 would be mid to upper mid (which is where I think he is). He's good, but not Erron/Sonya/Scorp/Geras level good.

I knew a handful of people were going to enter this thread and massively downplay their character. However, most posts have been reasonable and I appreciate people's contribution and honesty. If I have some time, I may compile the most accurate ratings and discuss them in the podcast with REO and Tom.



I agree with you about Geras and Scorpion, but not every character has a mid-hitting teleport and low sand trap so Cetrion's zoning is 5/5.



Good rating overall.

Offense is likely 5/5 because Jax is the only character other than Geras who gets guaranteed okizeme from both throws. I think getting okizeme from throws is more important than getting krushing blows. The point is Jax gets okizeme from his main strings (f+2,1+3 and f+3,3,1+3), his throws, and his combos (gotcha grab 2).

I also think damage is 4/5. Jax has limited combos like Jade. However, if you watch Gunshow play, he hits the krushing blows on (f+2,1+3 and f+3,3,1+3), double amplified command grab, and double heated missiles, which account for like 80% of damage, almost every match. Jax has the second best krushing blows behind Geras.

He has to make more guesses/reads than characters like Geras after his throws and knockdowns when KB is not in play. So while his KBs are great, they're not always there. Without them he has to make 5/6 correct guesses/reads whereas some characters only need 2/3. That's why I was hesitant to throw 5/5s out.

 

[UPR_Nova]

DIdn't know about this, please inform me! XD
Cause I usually just full charge b2 after a quick step back if I think they are gonna forward roll or u2/u3 wakeup.

I don't necessarily disagree with your posts, but I feel the lack of damage without KB and the weakness vs zoning really hinders him more than a 21/25 rating. 20+ to me is top top tier, whereas 17-20 would be mid to upper mid (which is where I think he is). He's good, but not Erron/Sonya/Scorp/Geras level good.

Yup, j2 into fully charged b2 because of the hit advantage on the j2. It is really the only time that I use anything other than j3 (unless I'm not getting anti-aired and I get to go crazy with j1). There is a slight timing issue but after the second rep doing it in the lab, it was pretty much added to the toolkit. There really isn't anything you need to worry about missing mid-match if you make that read on a wake-up or even a jump in.

In regards to where he stands, I don't disagree with anything you said either. If I'm being honest, he's fighting for top 5 though. That might be a controversial statement but that's just what I believe. Weakness vs zoning is real though. That's why I'm going to pick up GB so that I don't need to pick another character. I think HD is the best but GB definitely has some good utility where HD struggles.

Edit: I'd like to stress that I did not find the tech related to j2 into fully charged b2. I saw Gunshow use it and I would assume he is the one that found it. Basically everything I get for Jax is from him.

 

[Vagrant]

Cassie Cage 20/25

1. Offensive options – 5/5: Good tools overall, 2 low combo starters (tho they're slow), advancing combo starter, and she has a restand so she's automatically S tier. God like 9 frame punish tool (F4) and useful staggers (b2, d4). Damaging punish combo starter (111).

2. Neutral game and footsies – 4/5 : very good advancing combo starter, very good anti-airs (B3, S1). Walk speed is fast, backward walk speed is a bit slower tho.

3. Defensive options – 3/5 : her D2 hitbox is non-existent so goodbye pushback on block. Her U2 is useless unless you're in the corner and the opponent somehow doesn't hit you since it's not armored. U3 is good in certain situations (in the corner and on knockdown pressure) but punishable on whiff. Her FB start-up and animation is dumb. D4 is really good to control space and keep opponents off of you.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning – 5/5 : low gunshot, 'nuff said. Using air bullet barrage to end combos to put opponents who have trouble getting in full screen.

5. Damage output – 3/5 : 25-30% for one bar, and a bit more if you use two bars so it's practically useless to waste a second bar in one single combo. Meterless damage is laughable.

Glad you brought up d4 in defense. I would actually give her Neutral and footsies a 5. Back walk speed isn't slow enough to bring it down imo but overall I think this is pretty accurate.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Yup, j2 into fully charged b2 because of the hit advantage on the j2. It is really the only time that I use anything other than j3 (unless I'm not getting anti-aired and I get to go crazy with j1). There is a slight timing issue but after the second rep doing it in the lab, it was pretty much added to the toolkit. There really isn't anything you need to worry about missing mid-match if you make that read on a wake-up or even a jump in.

In regards to where he stands, I don't disagree with anything you said either. If I'm being honest, he's fighting for top 5 though. That might be a controversial statement but that's just what I believe. Weakness vs zoning is real though. That's why I'm going to pick up GB so that I don't need to pick another character. I think HD is the best but GB definitely has some good utility where HD struggles.

Edit: I'd like to stress that I did not find the tech related to j2 into fully charged b2. I saw Gunshow use it and I would assume he is the one that found it. Basically everything I get for Jax is from him.

So, you're doing it when you think they are gonna u3?

I don't think you can be top 5 in this game with characters like sonya (who have no weaknesses) with a glaring weakness. I'm no pro though, so what do I know? lol

I have no problem with stealing tech. That's what I do. It levels all jax mains up.

 

[UPR_Nova]

So, you're doing it when you think they are gonna u3?

I don't think you can be top 5 in this game with characters like sonya (who have no weaknesses) with a glaring weakness. I'm no pro though, so what do I know? lol

I have no problem with stealing tech. That's what I do. It levels all jax mains up.

Ayyyy I'm no pro either lol. Just my opinion.

And yeah, on a read of u3 wake-up or on a read that allows a neutral jump punish. Perfect example being blowing up a command grab.

 

[M2Dave]

In regards to where he stands, I don't disagree with anything you said either. If I'm being honest, he's fighting for top 5 though. That might be a controversial statement but that's just what I believe. Weakness vs zoning is real though. That's why I'm going to pick up GB so that I don't need to pick another character. I think HD is the best but GB definitely has some good utility where HD struggles.

I consider myself a Jax up player. LOL. He is not a top 5 character, though. He is rare in tournament play because Geras is Jax without weaknesses, as Reed implied. Geras does not struggle versus zoning and does not need krushing blows for damage.

Gunshow is playing Jax at a level nobody else is. Dab is very good too. I have yet to see Gunshow lose a series from the sets that he uploads. I can imagine a fundamentally strong Cetrion or Skarlet player who is familiar with the Jax match up giving him a very difficult time.

 

[UPR_Nova]

I consider myself a Jax up player. LOL. He is not a top 5 character, though. He is rare in tournament play because Geras is Jax without weaknesses, as Reed implied. Geras does not struggle versus zoning and does not need krushing blows for damage.

Gunshow is playing Jax at a level nobody else is. Dab is very good too. I have yet to see Gunshow lose a series from the sets that he uploads. I can imagine a fundamentally strong Cetrion or Skarlet player who is familiar with the Jax match up giving him a very difficult time.

I don't disagree because I specifically picked up Geras for tournament play in match-ups in which I think Jax struggles and against people that aren't very solid. I personally see Jax as high as 5th but I can't argue with people putting other characters above him such as Jacqui and Cassie. Imo you can argue 5 - 10 to be of the same caliber but that's not the point of this thread.

To put it bluntly, Gunshow is utilizing everything in Jax's toolkit and is the goal for all Jax players. He is hit-confirming perfectly, rarely makes a miscue in relation to the command grab (whether that be using it, setting it up, or landing the KB), has recently incorporated a TON of flawless blocking into his game which leads to huge damage for Jax, and never drops a KB combo that I've seen. This, along with the fact that he is an exceptional player regardless of character, makes this a scary combination. Dab is also ridiculous and much of the same can be said about him, but I haven't seen as much of his play. What I have seen is that Dab ALWAYS has something on the screen that is threatening the opponent, whether that be projectiles or normals. He also plays at an unprecedented speed which is fun to watch.

And yes, Cetrion is a HUGE problem for Jax. I play one fairly regularly. Besides the boulders and the ability to contest his f2 with her great normals, the ability to get out of the corner pretty much for free is such a huge problem. I haven't played a good Skarlet so I won't claim to know anything about that one but I could see issues on paper, especially if she gets her space control going.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

However, if you watch Gunshow play, he hits the krushing blows on (f+2,1+3 and f+3,3,1+3), double amplified command grab, and double heated missiles, which account for like 80% of damage, almost every match. Jax has the second best krushing blows behind Geras.

Exactly. I've been checking into Gunny's channel when he uploads matches against tourney players. He makes it look so easy with the KB's and it's helped show Jax's real potential in the right hands.

 

[DrFolmer]

How does Jacqui get 5/5 for defense? I’m not saying she’s helpless by any means, but her reversal are average, her wake ups are ok and she lacks a 6 frame d1.

You gave Geras a 5/5, do you think Jacqui’s defensive options are as good as Geras’?

I would give her a 4/5.

I know it's easy to just tech the leg throw but the whole idea to discourage someone from throwing in a game where they're super powerful goes a long way. Especially with the Oki she gets from it. Look at it this way - you spend a bar to completely reverse the situation you were in (Plus, 220 meterless is not bad either). This is actually huge IMO. Maybe not so much against Geras due to it basically being the shittiest predicament in the game due to his insane oki (doesnt matter whether he back- or forward throws you), but against characters with limited mixup options, taking away their throw game takes away a big part of their gameplan. And there's an advantage in the KB - going for armbreak is essentially a guaranteed oki situation for Jacqui.

I will say her wake up in u2 is rather meh but her anti air game is also top notch if you know how to utilize her standing normals.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Can you guys just call out the specific person instead of generalizing? It's really annoying.

Panic Mode, Take A Chance and I have charts with her having the lowest 17 and mine being 20. I'd prefer we didn't promote false narratives on Jade players. Most of us don't think she's 11/25 so it's just not fair that I keep seeing this.

Okay, sorry. Bad joke.