Raiden Match-Ups Thread

[Cosmic Forge]

That's what i see everyone do. The problem with D2 is that in order to beat the throw, you have to do it too early, so your character isn't even facing the right direction. Unlike MKX, a number of moves in this game don't "auto face" the opponent on startup.

I think parries still auto face. But singular moves don't. Multi hitting moves DO auto correct though, like Kano's amp'd ball, weirdly enough.

So yeah, d1 that shit. Works stupidly well as an anti air against normal jump ins too, so why not?

 

[Mandolore1123]

That's what i see everyone do. The problem with D2 is that in order to beat the throw, you have to do it too early, so your character isn't even facing the right direction. Unlike MKX, a number of moves in this game don't "auto face" the opponent on startup.

I think parries still auto face. But singular moves don't. Multi hitting moves DO auto correct though, like Kano's amp'd ball, weirdly enough.

So yeah, d1 that shit. Works stupidly well as an anti air against normal jump ins too, so why not?

Should my go to anti-air be D1 or S1? I'm letting a lot of people jump in for free and I'm really trying to change that

 

[kabelfritz]

That's what i see everyone do. The problem with D2 is that in order to beat the throw, you have to do it too early, so your character isn't even facing the right direction. Unlike MKX, a number of moves in this game don't "auto face" the opponent on startup.

I think parries still auto face. But singular moves don't. Multi hitting moves DO auto correct though, like Kano's amp'd ball, weirdly enough.

So yeah, d1 that shit. Works stupidly well as an anti air against normal jump ins too, so why not?

the trick is not to do the d2 early, but late. for some reason throws beat ducking normals in this game, but when you just duck long and punish the throw recovery youre fine. youll be surprised how long lao actually hovers helplessly in the air when you duck his tp throw. you lose the option to block the mixup though. of course it beats everything when you uppecut super-early, but that works only when youre expecting it.

another thing on raidens uppercut though: why does he not turn around against crossups? even when the opponent has almost touched the ground, raiden still does the uppercut into the initial direction and that thing has zero hitbox above it. this is the worst anti-crossup upperctup i ever had in any MK.

 

[Mandolore1123]

the trick is not to do the d2 early, but late. for some reason throws beat ducking normals in this game, but when you just duck long and punish the throw recovery youre fine. youll be surprised how long lao actually hovers helplessly in the air when you duck his tp throw. you lose the option to block the mixup though. of course it beats everything when you uppecut super-early, but that works only when youre expecting it.

another thing on raidens uppercut though: why does he not turn around against crossups? even when the opponent has almost touched the ground, raiden still does the uppercut into the initial direction and that thing has zero hitbox above it. this is the worst anti-crossup upperctup i ever had in any MK.

Seems D1 is better though, covers the flip kick as well. Are all his options punishable on block?

 

[kabelfritz]

ive tried something that worked pretty ok: get the lifelead (hes not that good mid-range where you start, just throw out f1/f3 or sth) and then just retreat to the opposite side of the screen and duckblock, nothing else. that seemed to put the geras player into a thinking state.

quoting myself: as hero killer stain just demonstrated on the combo breaker stream, you can do this best with raijin, as (loaded) db4 can trade chip with geras sand trap while maintaining the positions and charging db3 up. when he moves in you have discharge.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Seems D1 is better though, covers the flip kick as well. Are all his options punishable on block?

You can convert off D1 into B12~DB2AMP, JI3~BF3 for 27% damage.

 

[AbeW]

Raijin has some badassery going on if you can get any opponent in the corner. I'll post some setups soon.

 

[Mandolore1123]

How do you all deal with Jax. He’s safe on everything. Great buttons up close. Can’t zone because we suck at zoning. He’s also staggering that low kick. Man it’s hard to defend

 

[Swoops]

How do you all deal with Jax. He’s safe on everything. Great buttons up close. Can’t zone because we suck at zoning. He’s also staggering that low kick. Man it’s hard to defend

Really don't know a lot about Jax other than flawless block punish his 33/2 1+3.

If anyone is interested I thought it was kind of fun to go over the Kombat vs Dragon match

Kombat really did a lot right and it was super close as a result. I think the amount of teleports was fine as he really wasn't getting punished too often for it. Sure it's harder to react to it in high stress situations, but Dragon is an amazing player of course and I think it really shows how much the teleport changes match ups and how the opponent plays neutral. He had to be super on the ball to even get a jab punish. Kombat also had a lot of clutch conversions (flawless block the geyser into super man punish!?!)

I think one of the bigger things that held Kombat back was overuse of BF1 AMP. Quite a few situations where he could've gotten larger conversions if he hadn't used a bar on the BF1. It helps pressure, but at 28 frames doesn't a 30 frame teleport kinda do the same thing without burning a bar ? Or walk into range with F4 ? I think he was kind of quick to take the gamble on things which cost him a lot of meter

Meter usage seemed to be a big thing over all. In the Cetrion match up especially it seems like breakway isn't super important (except to save yourself from dying.) Like most of her combos are doing 25%ish , and there were so many opportunties to use that bar for wake up or fly/tele cancel. BF3 AMP is another one I'm not sure on. Good unbreakable damage but you could save the bar and tele in for a +4 oki situation

Thoughts? Overall I thought it was a really good Raiden showing as he did pretty good, while there is still a good amount of stuff to be explored. (more D3, 243, F32, B2)

 

[Mandolore1123]

Really don't know a lot about Jax other than flawless block punish his 33/2 1+3.

If anyone is interested I thought it was kind of fun to go over the Kombat vs Dragon match

Kombat really did a lot right and it was super close as a result. I think the amount of teleports was fine as he really wasn't getting punished too often for it. Sure it's harder to react to it in high stress situations, but Dragon is an amazing player of course and I think it really shows how much the teleport changes match ups and how the opponent plays neutral. He had to be super on the ball to even get a jab punish. Kombat also had a lot of clutch conversions (flawless block the geyser into super man punish!?!)

I think one of the bigger things that held Kombat back was overuse of BF1 AMP. Quite a few situations where he could've gotten larger conversions if he hadn't used a bar on the BF1. It helps pressure, but at 28 frames doesn't a 30 frame teleport kinda do the same thing without burning a bar ? Or walk into range with F4 ? I think he was kind of quick to take the gamble on things which cost him a lot of meter

Meter usage seemed to be a big thing over all. In the Cetrion match up especially it seems like breakway isn't super important (except to save yourself from dying.) Like most of her combos are doing 25%ish , and there were so many opportunties to use that bar for wake up or fly/tele cancel. BF3 AMP is another one I'm not sure on. Good unbreakable damage but you could save the bar and tele in for a +4 oki situation

Thoughts? Overall I thought it was a really good Raiden showing as he did pretty good, while there is still a good amount of stuff to be explored. (more D3, 243, F32, B2)

Honestly doubting the use of defensive meter beyond far teleport cancelling off B12 since I don’t really see anyone use superman cancels all that much

 

[AK Harold]

He did great play with teleport. I wish he forced the blocks on B2 though during clutch. He did a couple unsafe plays like letting Superman rock etc. I think B2 would have been a manageable risk. Also, dragons throw reads were really clutch.

 

[Swoops]

Yea just throwing out raw B2 in the right situations is really strong imo. Sure it's punishable but the threat of it is super important to his mix up close. B3 > B2 loops are hilarious.

Oh speaking of hilarious I found a (maybe) useful tidbit in the Geras match up. If you spam short hop you can catch a whiffed sand trap on reaction with an air BF3. Nice because it doesn't risk getting kountered for 31%. Was actually getting pretty consistent with it even online.

 

[Nortnauq]

Yep, the fact that B2 and B3 are both 19f almost makes his "50/50" even stronger and/or more viable.

 

[kabelfritz]

just had a look at the kitana matchup and its pretty crazy. raijins discharge can PUNISH ALL of her core strings except one which can be flawless blocked and s1 punished (b131 i think). also, almost all of her strings have at least 3 hits to load the discharge. her pokes can be punished with discharge too. b231 (the string kitanas do all the time) can even be interrupted with it after the 1, before the krushing blow overhead.

edit: just played this, kitana doesnt even NEED her strings against raijin because he barely can get in on her zoning...

 

[Mandolore1123]

What are Raiden’s worst matchups at the moment? Feels like an uphill battle against most people since other characters command the screen much better than he does. Scorpion in both variations is a pain, Baraka is hard too.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Yep, the fact that B2 and B3 are both 19f almost makes his "50/50" even stronger and/or more viable.

b3 is 16f

 

[Nortnauq]

r/woooosh

 

[Mandolore1123]

How do you all deal with Jacqui?

 

[kabelfritz]

she doesnt have much weaknesses, but when she hits her multi-kick special on block thats a gimmick. you can punish the short version with b1 and duck the last hit of the long version. otherwise, just keep her out and watch for the distances, she likes to dance around the spot between dash punch range which can be ducked and the advancing mid. dash punch is not punishable but minus enough that you can f3. when shes in she can cancel the kick or the 22 string i believe. i like to challenge her first attack because shes likely to try a cancel first, d2 can be too slow though. when she finishes the f3 string its also your turn.

 

[Mandolore1123]

she doesnt have much weaknesses, but when she hits her multi-kick special on block thats a gimmick. you can punish the short version with b1 and duck the last hit of the long version. otherwise, just keep her out and watch for the distances, she likes to dance around the spot between dash punch range which can be ducked and the advancing mid. dash punch is not punishable but minus enough that you can f3. when shes in she can cancel the kick or the 22 string i believe. i like to challenge her first attack because shes likely to try a cancel first, d2 can be too slow though. when she finishes the f3 string its also your turn.

D3 whiffs against her, which super sucks. Are any of her cancels plus? Or it is just a guess of who pokes first?

 

[kabelfritz]

D3 whiffs against her, which super sucks. Are any of her cancels plus? Or it is just a guess of who pokes first?

i think its a guess and 11 can be done

 

[kabelfritz]

what do you guys do against shao kahn? i know his offense has a lot of gimmicks, almost all high starters and many unsafe strings/specials. but i have a really hard time with people who actually play him safe. raiden cant really control anything with his slow ass projectiles and shao kahn is just superior in terms of range, up-close buttons and corner game. my biggest gripe is that you cant counterpoke his b4 (or is it d4? the -2 one) online, they just get a free poke after it and the best i ever got was a poke trade.

 

[Mandolore1123]

what do you guys do against shao kahn? i know his offense has a lot of gimmicks, almost all high starters and many unsafe strings/specials. but i have a really hard time with people who actually play him safe. raiden cant really control anything with his slow ass projectiles and shao kahn is just superior in terms of range, up-close buttons and corner game. my biggest gripe is that you cant counterpoke his b4 (or is it d4? the -2 one) online, they just get a free poke after it and the best i ever got was a poke trade.

Have not played a good Shao yet, though from what I’ve seen in PI vs Jackal, PI sure struggles a lot against Shao

 

[OutworldKeith]

Raiden has a favorable MU against Jade. He controls the pace with Teleport, & takes away her zoning/ keep away. She has to chase him down and that’s difficult with her tools.

 

[MKF30]

I like to zone Shao Kahn, keep him far as best I can. He's annoying to deal with but there's worse to deal with in this game for Raiden lol.