QUESTIONS/INFO THREAD

[Paul Santoro]

Ugh ive been messing around with Sheeva allll night tn and found all the same combos you guys have come up with. All in all i dont see her being that viable of a character.....UNLESS! Someone finds a way to get a guarenteed command throw or Ground Pound. I did however find some interesting stuff that can be tested further like after her b1,2 the character staggers u can cancel it into her db4 the combo doesnt link in the game but i dont c any character being able to move out of it...any ideas? also i think the general strat for her is to bait ppl to low block so u can get the low command throw combos...f3 canceble into ground pound is a nice combo and u can make it safe by canceling into fireball on standing characters.

 

[Gast]

Did some further testing, a blocked b1, 2, 1+2 is NOT a guaranteed X-ray setup. The opponent is in a lot of blockstun, but there is just enough time to jump the xray at the last possible second. I think you will always land it online due to delay, but in a real match, might be a bit risky since the xray is easy to react to.

UNLESS! Someone finds a way to get a guarenteed command throw or Ground Pound.

Check my earlier posts, I am reasonably sure you can guarantee both the normal command grab and the low command grab. The normal command grab gives you massive advantage on block to continue pressure. Landing the ground pound is much harder though, there don´t seem to be any guaranteed setups for it, I might be wrong though.

can be tested further like after her b1,2 the character staggers u can cancel it into her db4 the combo doesnt link in the game but i dont c any character being able to move out of it...any ideas?

It´s not a guaranteed setup, you can jump the stomp right before it lands.

EDIT: Found a new possible BnB: 1, 2 B1, dash, 4, BF3 = 28% damage. Pretty easy to land, carries pretty far. With EX throw you can throw people into corners more easily.

Found a corner juggle, VERY hard to do. Apparently you can connect a neutral jump pop-up punch in the corner after 1, 2, b1. Timing is VERY VERY strict, you need to do the pop-up as soon as possible else it will whiff. The combo is: 1, 2, b1 -> jumping pop-up -> b2, 1+2, BF3. Does about 39% damage, probably 40+ with EX throw.

I have found a possible lead on more damaging combos too, sometimes, I am able to connect the Quad Toss string after the 1, 2, b1 string but it´s also really hard to pull off, I always whiff the throw because I get a slight delay before I can start the quad toss low.

Another Juggle, this time you need to have your back to the wall:

DB3, pop-up, quad toss, BF3. Does about 47%

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

Found a corner juggle, VERY hard to do. Apparently you can connect a neutral jump pop-up punch in the corner after 1, 2, b1. Timing is VERY VERY strict, you need to do the pop-up as soon as possible else it will whiff. The combo is: 1, 2, b1 -> jumping pop-up -> b2, 1+2, BF3. Does about 39% damage, probably 40+ with EX throw.

I was playing around with this exact combo after I did the DB3 neutral U1/2 one which gave me the idea, and the timing is far too strict imo. I kinda wish she would throw them up a bit higher for an easier quad toss though. Starting to love that string..

All in all i dont see her being that viable of a character

I don't think she will be, she has a very hard time against zoning characters, and players who know how to punish the stomp, and when someone is on her she really doesn't have a way out as her EX BF3 doesn't have armor properties like her DB3 which if someone is on you isn't really that much help. I'm wondering what everyone else is doing when they're being pressured, so far I'm just throwing out low pokes, her cr.3 seems to be super fast, and her cr.4 has lots of range and cancel either of them into BF3 when I feel I won't be punished to try to get the advantage back.

 

[NoDoubt]

Yea those low-grabs to quad tosses are very difficult to connect...possible but so difficult especially on certain characters with different hit boxes. If only it were a bit easier, her combo potentials for the low grabs would be so deadly and make her pretty nasty with all these gauranteed 35-40+ strings off a crouching opponent. Once people start mastering them I guess it could still be successful.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

I think it's as soon as she lifts them up, you do the grab.

 

[Gast]

I actually don´t have that much problems with connecting quad toss after the low grab. Connecting stuff like the pop-up in the corner juggle I posted earlier however, THATS hard.

I think it´s still a bit early to judge out Sheeva completely actually. I think she has some potential, she has ways to hit confirm her grabs, even force blocked command grabs in order to get a potential corner infinite going. But yeah she does not seem to have any good ways to get out of pressure. Super armor on the EX grab would be great, either it could stop the offense completely by putting the opponent in massive disadvantage on block, or reverse the situation if Sheeva has her back against the wall and start her brutal corner game. Or, it´s brutal in theory. I am by no means a great mortal kombat player and I don´t have a good offline community to practice stuff with nor can I visit EVO or anything like that, even though I would love to. So I guess I don´t have much say in what character is good or not.

She does seem to get more powerful in tag mode though, where she probably does more damage than anyone thanks to the quad loop. 96% in one combo is nothing to sneeze at, even though it requires a low throw to land. I honestly think they should fix that, but at the same time make improvements on Sheevas character in general. Like adding armor to the EX grab, I like that suggestion. Or making some changes to some useless normals and making her overhead more consistent.

Anyway, people have been talking about how stomp can be easily punished and I think that I will do some testing into that, what punishes the stomp and if you can avoid it. The way I see it, stomping is a guessing game for both Sheeva and the opponent. Uppercuts clearly beat the stomp on the way down, but the person in question must be standing right under Sheeva before she even appears on the screen in order for it to land. So what you can do to counter that is to land in front of the guy, since sheeva recovers really fast from the stomp, you get a free combo on the guy with his fist in the air for no reason.

So what I will test is every move that could punish the stomp and if its possible to land and punish the failed counter. It may take some time before I can fully test everything though, I will probably start with special moves. If you have any requests on stuff you want tested, or if you test something yourself then please post it too!

 

[NoDoubt]

Its the B + 2, 1+2 after the low grab thats difficult to connect. So strict that even if the B+2 connects it sometimes doesnt toss them up for the 1+2 cuz it wasnt hit at the right time. Its impossible online however.

 

[Gast]

I´m not 100% sure I get the problem actually. You can start B+2 pretty early after the grab and it will hit. If the throw whiffs, you did it too late.

 

[Bronzefist]

GREAT FINDS guys. I'm loving the low grab into quad toss.


I've still yet to play any people and test stuff but that will hopefully change soon. I got a chance to look at the Prima guide but honestly the stuff posted here is way better. The guide really shits on Sheeva in the various character sections. Each character section has a paragraph dedicated to the character's best matchup and worst matchup. A LOT of characters have Sheeva as their best matchup. It's like 1/3rd of the cast. In most cases it's because she has no real ways of escaping their pressure once they get close, or they can zone her out. For example the guide says that Reptile beats Sheeva because his EX Force Balls will cleanly beat her stomp if he charges them up. However it did not mention if that applies to all of her stomp directions (forward, neutral and back).

Regardless I'm still gonna play her and see what's up. There have been multiple reports of character tweaks over the past few days (Sindel infinite removal, changes to Cyrax bomb setups) so if NRS continues to patch/change things then Sheeva may get some buffs or her problem matchups may get some nerfs. I agree that EX b,f+3 should have some armor though.

Also does anyone else have weird issues executing her EX stomp? Thankfully I don't use it much at all but it seems REALLY hard for it to come out. I get her normal stomp instead like 80% of the time. It's so bad that I often have to hit block before I hit up on the controller, so the motion ends up being d, block, up. If I try the intended/real motion (d,u,block) then I rarely get it to come out.

 

[Gast]

Wait, holy crap there was a Sindel infinite? Huh, shows what I know, haha. Wonder if they will fix Sheevas tag kill combos though.

For example the guide says that Reptile beats Sheeva because his EX Force Balls will cleanly beat her stomp if he charges them up. However it did not mention if that applies to all of her stomp directions (forward, neutral and back).

That doesn´t sound right. I´m pretty sure you can overshoot Reptile with a stomp and end up behind him for a free combo. Why would you stomp all nilly-willy vs Reptile anyway? You can duck the acid spits I think and I´m reasonably sure at closer ranges you can punish an attempted ball with F4. That kick seem pretty good for fast punishes and long-range anti-air. Very unsafe though, so don´t get it blocked! I guess there might be some problems if he sits way back at the screen and shoots force balls all day, but I think you can punish that with ground pounds actually or fireballs of your own. I think you need to be a bit patient with situations like that. I am by no means a Reptile expert so I may just be talking out of my ass.

Does the guide speak of any decent combos we haven´t found or nasty setups? If not, then it seems we know more about Sheeva than they did.

I also hope NRS will give Sheeva some buffs through patching, they seem to be pretty responsive to balancing considering they are actively removing infinites. Problem is, we have not seen a very good Sheeva in action so we still do not fully know what she is capable of. I think that since theories are suggesting Sheevas strongest game is in the corner, then her ability to carry to the corner should be strong aswell, not necessarily doing a lot of mid-screen damage. Most of her mid-screen combos does not seem to carry very far, maybe some imrpovements should be made here? One thing I have been pondering over is, should she be able to special cancel the B2 in the Quad Toss string and the B1 in the Four-Way variant?

I don't think she will be, she has a very hard time against zoning characters, and players who know how to punish the stomp, and when someone is on her she really doesn't have a way out as her EX BF3 doesn't have armor properties like her DB3 which if someone is on you isn't really that much help.

I did not know that DB3 had armor properties, thanks a lot for this info! This may aid her corner offense though since the only way to punish her blockstrings when facing the corner are either to eat it and use a breaker, or do a low punish, like a sweep or something. I wonder if she can EX low grab someone out of a sweep? I will try to test this later.

I´m also starting to think that Quad Toss after 1, 2 ,B1 is impossible to do. I´m not willing to give up on it yet, but I have not managed to land the toss part a single time, only the low. It would be great if this combo worked, since I think it would do a lot of damage but it doesen´t seem possible.

 

[Rickyraws]

Still no Sheeva videos outside her fatality ;_;

 

[NoDoubt]

ok yea after practicing it again the low-grab to quad toss is actually not that difficult. I was trying it first on sektor before and maybe just for the robots they have a different hit box but yea, doing it early after the toss usually lands the pop up.

Its no surprise the guide shit on Sheeva lol but this thread alone is the ultimate alternative for sure. Hopefully a high level one can make her tourney-playable which id be 1 to work on.

The low pokes btw, F+3 + (cancel to fireball or command grab) is a great mid-screen/close combat strategy for sure. Also the F+3 + ground pound seems so far..a very effective string that hits on pound even if the low poke is blocked.

Her main strategy is opening up your opponent for a grab to combo which more and more possibilities comin in the thread

 

[Bronzefist]

The guide is absolutely not worth it for anyone who has been following this thread. This thread has the same and/or better combos and strats. The combos in the guide are like the day one combos posted on the first page of the thread.

With that being said it's possible that various characters underwent a lot of changes after the guide was written, so many of her problem match ups may have ended up changing.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

Is U1/2, F3 or U1/2, B2 safe at all? Those would be great mix ups if so. Especially with F3 into DB3 if they block F3.

So far, I think her absolute hardest match ups are Kung Lao, and Night Wolf. Teleport stomp? Spin. Fire ball? Teleport. Jump? Spin. From what I can tell, nothing she has can punish the spin either. The only option is to dash forward and even then, he's just so fast.. same story with Night Wolf who also has an answer to everything she does.

 

[Dunxco]

In the interest of playing mind games with Jump Crush, it should be noted that, just like Quan Chi's teleport stomping move, holding forward after inputting the attack will land Sheeva just behind her target, while holding backwards will land her just in front of her target. Something that could be quite useful once in a while but not to rely on. The window of opportunity is fairly large, too - the latest you can input the command is just after she disappears off-screen, which makes it very useful for catching early-dodgers.

Edit: Looks like this was already covered. Looks like this is what I get for skim-reading :sick:

I'm not seeing much potential with her, to be honest. Shame because she has some very interesting tricks.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

Finally, a combo video

 

[FiNAL-LiFe-G]

Finally, a combo video

and its a damn good one too!

 

[Urichinan]

and its a damn good one too!

Thank you!

I came in here to post it, but it looks like you guys beat me to my own video. XD

 

[FiNAL-LiFe-G]

Thank you!

I came in here to post it, but it looks like you guys beat me to my own video. XD

lol srry bro , it was so interesting that we had to get it here asap

 

[NoDoubt]

^ - nice stuff. I forgot her jump punch can relaunch into another string in the corner. A lot of these would be impossible for me online unfortunately but thats hoping they fix this shit soon

 

[Gast]

That´s a niiice vid, it showcases a lot of the stuff we´ve found here actually. I´m pretty sure the Xray setups aren´t guaranteed to land however, but now that I think about it, I do not think I tested it on a crouching opponent. I will be able to do some testing tomorrow actually, so I will try it out then. Will also be checking if the fireball off F3 is safe. F3 doesent seem to be able to lock people into a crouch in order to set them up for a low grab. So if the opponent blocks it...Well it´s a guessing game. I think the second attack in the string hits crouchers, but I think it´s very very unsafe and it leads to absolutely nothing on hit.

I was thinking, what is the point of the anti-air grab? It seems pretty useless for...Well everything actually. I usually use 4, BF3 for close-range anit air and F4 for long-range anti air. In combos you can usually connect with BF3 for more damage. The EX version of the air grab seem equally terrible too. I will try it vs some special air attacks, like Kung Laos divekick, but I don´t think I´ll find anything. They seriously need to do something with that grab imo. Or there may be something really obvious I´m missing cause I´m stupid, hahaha.

Edit: Also please check out the tag thread! I would really welcome some more input on that thread, also some feedback on some of the combos I have found so far. I update the first post regularly.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

I've been using the air grab for those who love to jump away after a knock down or a block string. And speaking of block strings... 1, 2, B1 seems soo much better to use than 2, 1, 2, as I get upper cutted constantly and 1, 2, B1 seems to be so much faster, and Sheeva needs all the speed she can get.

Something else I noticed, BF3 is amazing. I've been gaining advantage over Kung Lao's dive kicks, and it seems to stuff a ton of other stuff as well.

I'm having little to no luck getting a DB3 in. There's enough room for one block string, and it seems regardless of who you're fighting the opponent has the advantage after that, I might just need to be using BF3 more in my strings though.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

The only thing about DF1 i found remarcable is the fact you can do the same combos you do with the BF3 (yes, but 3 or 4 % less damage) but a lot safier... antiair grab is less punishable.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

So I'm fighting this Scorpion. First I have to get up to him, through the teleports, fire, and spear. Then once I'm in, around the sweep range if I jump he jumps up + throws, if I dash in I might be able to get one block string in, and if I sit there then I'm just letting him get in on the offensive. When he is, he would do a block string and either throw, cancel into the leg grab, do the overhead, or what I had the most trouble with; do a cross up... there seriously seems to be nothing she can do. I would try to U1, but either I wasn't quick enough or she's too slow, but I would always get hit and be right back in square one. Really the only thing I can do while he was pressuring me was throw out a couple low pokes, and if I was lucky enough to do one in the air get a BF3.

Any tips? Besides cry.

 

[NoDoubt]

So I'm fighting this Scorpion. First I have to get up to him, through the teleports, fire, and spear. Then once I'm in, around the sweep range if I jump he jumps up + throws, if I dash in I might be able to get one block string in, and if I sit there then I'm just letting him get in on the offensive. When he is, he would do a block string and either throw, cancel into the leg grab, do the overhead, or what I had the most trouble with; do a cross up... there seriously seems to be nothing she can do. I would try to U1, but either I wasn't quick enough or she's too slow, but I would always get hit and be right back in square one. Really the only thing I can do while he was pressuring me was throw out a couple low pokes, and if I was lucky enough to do one in the air get a BF3.

Any tips? Besides cry.

well scorpion vs sheeva online is almost impossible imo..its a free win with him + any other cheap easy rush-down/teleport characters. To me theres too much input delay to even attempt the tricky shit Sheeva has.

Iv fought quite a few good scorps in ok-lag and basically snuffed them out with well-timed telestomps. It forces them to keep moving and kinda makes them come in/throw out specials up close. Thankfully because her recovery is really good on the stomp and because there constantly trying to avoid you, there usually never that close once u land...either there not close enough to force rushdown or you stomped them and now your on top. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Sheeva's 2 can smack Smoke out of his teleport so you might wanna try that along with the DF+1 to keep them close once ur in. Since the game is still so new...were not used to blocking like an expert so characters like him that are versatile in strings need to be blocked correctly and then countered whenever possible.

You can also cancel 2, 1, 2 into teleport stomp in the middle of stringing it blocked or not. The stomp will never hit but always lands right on top of your opponent even if he has fallen...or right next to him at that. It can act as odd pressure in a way if they block the string.

regardless though, rushdown teleporters will prob be her most difficult matchups. Imo its her strategy with that stomp-buffer that can act as serious placement to make her opponents move where she wants them to. That all comes with dictating the matches and reading the opponent I guess.


Also try what I posted b4 in here too...I know some scorp players would do random cross ups to try and catch u in the air and airthrow punish you. Wait for them to jump over and do a "reverse command grab" which catches them on the other side right before they hit the ground. Did this by accident and it worked great. Maybe even try spitting the grab out right before scorp rushes in...grab him before he combos lol.