QUESTIONS/INFO THREAD

[kaizt]

@ricky:
actually, nobody BUT the guide says shes bad. and unfortunately im not as good as putting videos up, but 74 - 14 doesnt sound like you need help atm.

 

[Rickyraws]

Oh I see. Bummer, I'd really like to see how other people play her. Well as of now, I'm 84-15. Got like 3 flawlesses using her
I still don't feel like I'm taking advantage of her moveset properly, though. I've seen a combo compilation video where two of her combos were used. Don't know how to do them, don't think I'll be able to for a while ;_;

 

[NoDoubt]

Do any of you guys have footage of you testing her out/ playing matches with her? I picked her up as my main and now I'm 74-14 online. Some say that even according to the official guide she's low on the tier list estimation. I don't really care cause I love using her, but I don't think Ill be able to beat players of higher skill levels if I can't learn to do these moves you guys speak of. I guess the advantage to her being below average is that most people won't know how to deal with all her moves as they havent seen her online much right? Have any of you guys been using her online?

Iv been using her. So far she's been pretty good for me with a lot of close up rush down options and mix ups. You can vary the punishment on teleporters and zoners with her teleport stomp (ff, bb buffer) on landing, but for me i feel she relies a lot on being close up with carefully timed grab attacks. I like her air grab but its very difficult to connect so that deff requires opponent reading. You can always get it in though after her low-grab or 1, 2, b+1 string. She's been pretty damn deadly in the corner which I aim for since she has a lot of punishment options to keep them stuck there. As a grappler, she has the low, high and mid grab options so even if blocked, I usually have some time to counter with something else and keep them in there. High level teleport characters will give her trouble for sure but in these cases I guess she'll have to play a lot more safe and counter every situation to stay close and get in.

Main issues wit her so far are just online bullshit since its in a bad state atm, the delay doesnt do her justice if you wiff a combo or do a special/normal you dont want to. Since she's slow, she's easy as hell to punish on reaction and therefore any non-intended combo strings get her in trouble. I feel like she's harder to manuever as well compared to other characters since her body is larger, its harder to connect jump hp starters and cross ups. Online these never even work so I dont even try. Sometimes when a match starts ill try to fireball and instead, her B+2, 1+2 string starts and ill get punished. A lot of the time dashes need to be buffered twice as much to get where you want, so I end up doing attacks before reaching my opponent which blows.


She's deff been labeled as trash by a few and she may be at the bottom again this time but regardless i'll still stick with her since tiers never mattered to me.

 

[Rickyraws]

Iv been using her. So far she's been pretty good for me with a lot of close up rush down options and mix ups. You can vary the punishment on teleporters and zoners with her teleport stomp (ff, bb buffer) on landing, but for me i feel she relies a lot on being close up with carefully timed grab attacks. I like her air grab but its very difficult to connect so that deff requires opponent reading. You can always get it in though after her low-grab or 1, 2, b+1 string. She's been pretty damn deadly in the corner which I aim for since she has a lot of punishment options to keep them stuck there. As a grappler, she has the low, high and mid grab options so even if blocked, I usually have some time to counter with something else and keep them in there. High level teleport characters will give her trouble for sure but in these cases I guess she'll have to play a lot more safe and counter every situation to stay close and get in.

Main issues wit her so far are just online bullshit since its in a bad state atm, the delay doesnt do her justice if you wiff a combo or do a special/normal you dont want to. Since she's slow, she's easy as hell to punish on reaction and therefore any non-intended combo strings get her in trouble. I feel like she's harder to manuever as well compared to other characters since her body is larger, its harder to connect jump hp starters and cross ups. Online these never even work so I dont even try. Sometimes when a match starts ill try to fireball and instead, her B+2, 1+2 string starts and ill get punished. A lot of the time dashes need to be buffered twice as much to get where you want, so I end up doing attacks before reaching my opponent which blows.


She's deff been labeled as trash by a few and she may be at the bottom again this time but regardless i'll still stick with her since tiers never mattered to me.

ff bb buffering? What's that?

 

[NoDoubt]

after doing DU for teleport u can buffer Foward, foward or back back apon landing to land closer in front or behind the usual target. So if your opponent tries jumping out of the teleport backward, u can buffer DU, ff and still get em. It definately advances that move and can trick zoners. but again, its hard online since everything is delayed, shit never gets timed right or inputted correctly so I dont always get em.

 

[Rickyraws]

Oh I see, thank you. Due to her speed, I've had to do a lot of prediction, and fake outs to land combos. I don't know how to wavedash, but regular dashing seems to work for me. Probably cause most of the people online are new. Wish there were videos online of people using her. Cause just from today alone I learned the bufering and that you can grab from 1,2back1.

 

[DrDogg]

Oh I see. Bummer, I'd really like to see how other people play her. Well as of now, I'm 84-15. Got like 3 flawlesses using her
I still don't feel like I'm taking advantage of her moveset properly, though. I've seen a combo compilation video where two of her combos were used. Don't know how to do them, don't think I'll be able to for a while ;_;

With the current state of online play, you won't be able to land those combos anyway. All you really need to do to win online right now is know how to block and punish.

I think I'm something like 20-4 in ranked matches (not with Sheeva) and I can't do even half of the combos I can do offline.

 

[Rickyraws]

Right now I'm 117/16 online with the exception of like 10 of those wins, the rest were from sheeva. Though now I'm starting to get worse with Sub zero and Mileena, my two other characters ;_;

Haven't been able to connect to ranked matches though...

 

[Gast]

I´m not 100% sure about this, but I think I agree that a blocked command grab is not only safe, but possibly advantage on block too. I haven´t been able to test this since I don´t have anyone to test it with, but I noticed that Shao Kahn could never punish my blocked command throws with his shoulder dash, which he usually did if I hit him with a unsafe string or just whiffed something in front of him. Could someone verify this? Frame data on the move would be really nice, would be a safe ender on some strings and also hopefully encourage opponents to start trying to duck.

Also, has anyone tried Sheeva in Tag? I´m thinking about Kabal actually, his fast tag attack is really good and it leads into Kabals BNB´s. Think it´s safe too. Plus he seems like a very versatile character that can deal with pretty much anything.

The low blade assist seems pretty useful too, but the only things I have found is a really REALLY risky 50/50 off F+3. Either you hit them with the saw blade or you hit them with the command grab. Problem is I´m not sure if the saw blade is safe and the low grab is DEFINETLY not safe if it whiffs, so I kinda doubt it will be very useful. Also Sheevas tag in seems TERRIBLE, it leads to absolutely nothing.

 

[Bronzefist]

Yea b,f+3 certainly "feels" like it's +frames on block. I also think her f+4 is as well.

FYI:

f+3 is a nice low hit for her that can combo into her fireball or b,f+3. I'm pretty sure that f+3, d,f+2 is safe on block as well. It does the same damage (15%) as her f+3,2 canned combo but that combo is terribly unsafe on block. Stick with f+3, d,f+2 if you want a safe (AFAIK) string starting from a low.

f+3, b,f+3 is 21% damage but the opponent can duck the throw on block. However if we do find that her b,f+3 throw gives her +frames then we should hopefully be able to get a decent mixup going between f+3, command throw and f+3, low grab.

Assuming all these theories turn out to be true then the next step will be finding some good setups & pressure after the opponent blocks her command grab. I doubt anyone would continue to block low against her since her low grab leads to 30%-ish combos.




EDIT:

Man I reeaaalllyyyy gotta test this with a person. I'm really starting to think that f+3, d,f+2 is going to be a legit & important string for her. The CPU sure isn't punishing it on expert. HOWEVER I think the opponent may be able to duck under the fireball by releasing block. Again, gotta test with a person to be sure. Ultimately it'll make the string less safe but it will open up her crouch grab game instead.

I know she already has some good damage off her other low (b+2) but I think f+3 is actually a little faster and safer on block (if you cancel into fireball).

If any of you has access to another person then please test this stuff!

 

[Pistol]

If any of you has access to another person then please test this stuff!

If you ever come to Shinlad's on Fridays, I'll gladly test stuff out with you.

 

[Gast]

I can confirm that if the opponent releases block he can duck under the fireball. One thing I´m wondering is if her fireball actually is safe after F+3 though? Projectiles up close usually aren´t.

Still not sure about the command grab being safe, however I will probably have opportunity to try it out today.

Also I´m really liking that find with the stomp that you can alter where she will land. Especially nice vs Sub-Zero since Ice Clone normally counters stomp perfectly.

Edit: Good news, a blocked command grab is not only safe, it gives you enough advantage to cleanly beat out Smoke´s 1,1 string which I think is the fastest jab with ANY canned combo that starts with 2. And also it´s completely safe to do 2, BF1 over and over again, if your opponent does not crouch, it´s a block infinite. I have not tested certain specials yet, like Sub-Zeros Ice Clone, will probably do that later. I am reasonably sure the 2 after the blocked grab slaps Scorpion out of his teleport punch, will try that along with other stuff like Smokes teleport and Ice Clone. Stomp seems useful for punishing ice clone too, I will test that.

I also tried with Raiden and he could not punish with either Electric Fly or his jab, which I think is one of the faster jabs in the game aswell. Sheevas 2 btw is REALLY fast.

In case anyone was wondering, B1, 2 is safe on block too. Does it say anywhere what strings are considered safe or not? Cause otherwise I will test them all later. For now, every string that can be canceled into the grab n punch move is VERY safe.

EDIT AGAIN: Disregard the above, the only way 2 into Grab n Punch is a block infinite is in the corner, mid-screen it pushes the opponent too far away for 2 to reach him/her. However, 4 can be used to punish some attempted punishes, like some projectiles, Scorpions teleport and sometimes she even kicks Sub-Zero out of his Ice Clone. HOwever, sometimes you can get hit by the ice clone if you try to poke with 4. Scorpion can punish 4 with spear however, but you are at a massive advantage after the grab, so if he wants to throw a spear out you can easily jump it and Scorp will eat a combo.

Another cool thing, if an opponent crouch blocks a 2, then, according to my testing, he can not get up and after the last 2 in the 2, 1, 2 string the low grab will be guaranteed. There is no way to escape it. I just let go of the controller when the grab came and my char would not get up so that Sheevas grab would whiff. Same applies if they start blocking the overhead string. They can not crouch after blocking the overhead so the command grab will, guaranteed. In the corner, this guarantees you hit or get the command grab blocked, which leads to you getting massive frame advantage. My testing is far from perfect though, so if someone else could confirm this, it would be great.

 

[NoDoubt]

This is a great thread for us Sheeva playerZ...


Some more shit im doin:

I did this by accident but if you time it right, you dont have to rely on Sheeva's air-grab to punish cross ups. Wait for them to jump over you or dash under them and command grab them from the OTHER side. Switch your direction...guess you can call this a "reverse command grab punisher." Im in the same boat wit you guys in I dont have someone to practice this on offline, but I did this twice online by mistake and it worked pretty well. Another corner-punisher as well for those trying to jump out.

1, 2, b+1, d, f + 1 = string to air-grab. Works nicely on jump punch starters/cross up string but because Sheeva is bigger than everyone else like i said in previous post, it can be difficult to manuever this correctly, especially online. In that case I usually use this off a blocked close up projectile (scorps spear) or blocked string.
d, b + 3, d, f + 1 = low grab to air-grab. She obviously has 30+ combos off the low grab, but this is useful in the corner to keep them stuck. 25%

Quad toss to projectile works nicely and if you connect the low blow, you should always finish with it: b + 2, 1+2, CANCEL to projectile (d, f + 2). make sure she doesnt laugh.
^ - A teleport stomp wont connect with this combo but seems to be able to land nicely right after doing this as it catches them off guard. Avoid being predictable by varying the buffers of bb, ff apon landing and itll confuse them. Infact, she has alot of knock-down situations where her stomp can be utilized.

Was this mentioned before?
3 + 3 + command grab = 25% easy mid-hitter to grab. This has been the main in-close rush down tactic since, if blocked, you can cancel before the second 3, try throwing regularly, or finish the string and jump over them if blocked. It just seems great to stay in and has been catching people off the guard thinking the string is over after the 3, 3. You can also do 3 + comand grab since it can be delayed online to connect the b, f + 3 after the 2nd 3.

 

[Bronzefist]

If you ever come to Shinlad's on Fridays, I'll gladly test stuff out with you.

Yea man I'll get at you guys in the other thread.

I can confirm that if the opponent releases block he can duck under the fireball. One thing I´m wondering is if her fireball actually is safe after F+3 though? Projectiles up close usually aren´t.

Still not sure about the command grab being safe, however I will probably have opportunity to try it out today.

Also I´m really liking that find with the stomp that you can alter where she will land. Especially nice vs Sub-Zero since Ice Clone normally counters stomp perfectly.

Edit: Good news, a blocked command grab is not only safe, it gives you enough advantage to cleanly beat out Smoke´s 1,1 string which I think is the fastest jab with ANY canned combo that starts with 2. And also it´s completely safe to do 2, BF1 over and over again, if your opponent does not crouch, it´s a block infinite. I have not tested certain specials yet, like Sub-Zeros Ice Clone, will probably do that later. I am reasonably sure the 2 after the blocked grab slaps Scorpion out of his teleport punch, will try that along with other stuff like Smokes teleport and Ice Clone. Stomp seems useful for punishing ice clone too, I will test that.

I also tried with Raiden and he could not punish with either Electric Fly or his jab, which I think is one of the faster jabs in the game aswell. Sheevas 2 btw is REALLY fast.

In case anyone was wondering, B1, 2 is safe on block too. Does it say anywhere what strings are considered safe or not? Cause otherwise I will test them all later. For now, every string that can be canceled into the grab n punch move is VERY safe.

EDIT AGAIN: Disregard the above, the only way 2 into Grab n Punch is a block infinite is in the corner, mid-screen it pushes the opponent too far away for 2 to reach him/her. However, 4 can be used to punish some attempted punishes, like some projectiles, Scorpions teleport and sometimes she even kicks Sub-Zero out of his Ice Clone. HOwever, sometimes you can get hit by the ice clone if you try to poke with 4. Scorpion can punish 4 with spear however, but you are at a massive advantage after the grab, so if he wants to throw a spear out you can easily jump it and Scorp will eat a combo.

Another cool thing, if an opponent crouch blocks a 2, then, according to my testing, he can not get up and after the last 2 in the 2, 1, 2 string the low grab will be guaranteed. There is no way to escape it. I just let go of the controller when the grab came and my char would not get up so that Sheevas grab would whiff. Same applies if they start blocking the overhead string. They can not crouch after blocking the overhead so the command grab will, guaranteed. In the corner, this guarantees you hit or get the command grab blocked, which leads to you getting massive frame advantage. My testing is far from perfect though, so if someone else could confirm this, it would be great.

BIG THANKS for this sir!

If you can test the fireball on block then please let us know for sure. I'm used to SF games where fireballs are generally safe on block so it may be different in MK.

 

[Gast]

I´ll test the fireball, but as said it can be ducked but ONLY if you are not blocking. If you are blocking it will hit.

Also, if f2 is blocked its a free command grab, can not be ducked due to massive block disadvantage. B2 also seems to be safe on block. Neutral 2 is weird, at a certain distance, it will whiff vs crouching opponents. I´m starting to think some of Sheevas hitboxes/zones/whatever are a bit weird, perhaps we should report it as a glitch? Standing 2 really should hit crouching opponents, same with her overhead in the Four-Way string. Blood lust is not a guaranteed command grab, since the opponent can crouch and stand after the second hit. I suppose you can use it as a risky grab mixup, but the four-way string seems much better overall. Feels like overall, the Blood Lust canned combo is the worst sheeva has, which is ironic since it is simultaneously her most reliable overhead. Though I did not test it properly so I can´t say if its unsafe or not. It looks unsafe, but looks can be decieving. Will test later.

I´m kinda working on who could be a decent tag partner for Sheeva, Smoke seemed like a decent choice, since he can carry people to the corner where Sheeva is pretty brutal, but they don´t seem to have very good combo synergy. Maybe I´m just terrible with Smoke. Maybe Tag should be a separate thread?

EDIT: Sheevas Darkness string is also a guaranteed command throw setup which also is very easy to hit confirm what throw you will need. After the third hit the opponent is in so much blockstun he cannot escape.

 

[Bronzefist]

I´ll test the fireball, but as said it can be ducked but ONLY if you are not blocking. If you are blocking it will hit.

Also, if f2 is blocked its a free command grab, can not be ducked due to massive block disadvantage. B2 also seems to be safe on block. Neutral 2 is weird, at a certain distance, it will whiff vs crouching opponents. I´m starting to think some of Sheevas hitboxes/zones/whatever are a bit weird, perhaps we should report it as a glitch? Standing 2 really should hit crouching opponents, same with her overhead in the Four-Way string. Blood lust is not a guaranteed command grab, since the opponent can crouch and stand after the second hit. I suppose you can use it as a risky grab mixup, but the four-way string seems much better overall. Feels like overall, the Blood Lust canned combo is the worst sheeva has, which is ironic since it is simultaneously her most reliable overhead. Though I did not test it properly so I can´t say if its unsafe or not. It looks unsafe, but looks can be decieving. Will test later.

I´m kinda working on who could be a decent tag partner for Sheeva, Smoke seemed like a decent choice, since he can carry people to the corner where Sheeva is pretty brutal, but they don´t seem to have very good combo synergy. Maybe I´m just terrible with Smoke. Maybe Tag should be a separate thread?

EDIT: Sheevas Darkness string is also a guaranteed command throw setup which also is very easy to hit confirm what throw you will need. After the third hit the opponent is in so much blockstun he cannot escape.

Some characters have small hitboxes when crouching, so we're bound to see stuff whiffing on them. The last hit of Sheeva's 2,1,2,f+1 string will whiff on certain crouching characters. From what I've tested so far it will whiff on all females (with the exception of Sheeva), Kano and Baraka. There maybe more but I haven't gone through the full cast.

Good find on the b+1,2,1+2 string!

I haven't even thought about tag mode yet and honestly it doesn't interest me that much. I typically learn characters very slowly cause I like to learn as much as possible (matchups, punishment options, etc) before moving on to a new character. So I very much doubt I'll be messing around with tag mode anytime soon, if ever.

 

[NoDoubt]

Another ground combo juggle 1, 2, b+1, dash, 2, command grab. 26%

I can definately see her having good corner combos using pop up strings and finishing them with a ground stomp to add another 10%.

 

[THTB]

Doing 21 xx command grab instead of just 2 xx command grab gets an extra 1%.

Instead of 212f1, you can do 212 xx low grab. Just as unsafe, but leads to juggle if the opponent chooses to crouch block.

Also, her X-Ray is sooooooooo gay. Lmao, you can cancel into it from your normals. Very good stuff.

She's pretty much the "traditional grappler" of the game.

 

[Gast]

That last post gave me an idea that I tested, b1, 2, 1+2 is a guaranteed X-ray setup, even if they block the string. Basically, if you block Sheeva´s b1 and she has meter, you WILL get hit by the X-ray. There MIGHT be a small chance you can jump it, but the timing would be very very strict. I know I never managed to jump it.

 

[NoDoubt]

shes fucking awesome... : P

 

[Rickyraws]

I am now 144-19 online. Guess who got me there =)

Still practicing with her. Now I'm just trying to figure out ways to guarantee her x ray hits. At first it wa awesome, but now a lot of players seem to predict it, and I only land the xray like 3 out of 8 times....

 

[Gast]

Ryodragoon on Shoryuken posted this:

Ive found thats its worth it to ALWAYS use The EX BF+HP. great damage and you can control whether she throws them forward or behind her, she also gets more time to set up your next move.

This is great, since now after a command low in the corner, you get to toss the guy back into the corner. You can´t control the direction of the EX low grab though, nor where you jump after a stomp or where you throw the guy after a anti-air grab.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

Wow.

DB3, B2, 1+2, BF3 = 43%, EX is 46% and with DF2 it's 38%.

In the corner, DB3, Neutral U1/2, B2, 1+2, BF3 = 47%, 49% with EX.

 

[Gast]

Thats a great find! Man, Sheeva is looking nastier and nastier.

 

[NoDoubt]

we should deff do a sheeva combo thread and compile all her potential combos soon