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Question re: downplay

F

FonicSox

Noob
craftycheese said:
And there's nothing wrong with that. What it feels like we're doing though is taking whatever the popular character in KL is or top tier is and overreacting and saying they need to be nerfed. We kinda did that with scorpion. I'm not saying that Liu is or is not a problem. I personally don't think he's broken or unfair, he's a just a very strong character and you have to play with minimal mistakes to beat him. I lose to him all the time but I don't feel like it's the character at this point because I know what to do and how to counter and the opponent adjusts and counters my counter and I do not adjust. I would prefer some hitbox stuff to get taken care of first, but that's been something we've been wanting since mk9, so it's unlikely that'll ever happen.

I think we need to be careful about what/how we're going about getting changes. Someone before this post had a good point about what I'm trying to say
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What for you defines whether or not it's overreacting? The frequency with which the complaints are leveled? That could just speak to NRS's storied history of laughable game balance and patching decisions.

In their defense, they've done a remarkable job improving in that category with this game, but even so.
 
F

FonicSox

Noob
Inzzane_79 said:
Another topic about Liu Kang is donwplayed and op/broken? Don´t we have enough already?

Can´t wait to see the X amount of Topics that will come after the next patch and someone else is supposed to be op and broken……..smh

All that Energy that got put into posting these things would be better put into learning the matchup and/or finding tech to counter what gets you. but that would require playing the game and not hanging out on a forum whining which some people seem to like more for whatever reason
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I see your strawman argument and raise you a dismissive hand motion. I've been calling Liu Kang a problem since before Evo when everyone else was focused on the top 5. His actual design and strategy hasn't changed at all. He was silly then and he's silly now.
 
L

lordlosh

Noob
There is a posting history. Im pretty sure i was the first one to said how strong Kang was, and this was in the very begining my career here. :D
And you can check my post i have never cried for any other character to get gutted. I was against touching Cassie or Scorpion.
Scorpion at High level is totally usles. Same for Sub Zero. Because they have zero mixup potential. A one trick pony if you like.
BTW im still waiting for that guy with all of his downplaying to count me 5 characters, that have Liu Kangs tools.
  • Best pressure
  • Best staggers
  • Low, high,air Fireball, and you can amplify every single one of them + low and high at the same time
  • 2 KB on Throw, 2 others that are HIGH damage and land on will, and 2 more that is not hard to get as well, in a total of 6 KB.
  • Top 3 FB ING
  • Best anti-air
  • Best anti-zoning
  • Best fastest move ING currently - F4 and his 1-2.
  • Best wakeup attacks in his 1,2.
 
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craftycheese

craftycheese

I tried to throw a yo-yo away. It was impossible.
FonicSox said:
What for you defines whether or not it's overreacting? The frequency with which the complaints are leveled? That could just speak to NRS's storied history of laughable game balance and patching decisions.

In their defense, they've done a remarkable job improving in that category with this game, but even so.
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They have definitely gotten better on that department. They did a pretty good job with the character changes they did in the last patch and overall designed a well balanced game.

I dunno how well I'm going to say what I mean, but To hopefully answer you question, It is frequency but i think it's more of the salty type overreactions that we have when calling for nerfs (or buffs). Like saying things like "He only won Dreamhack because he played Liu Kang", or talking about spamming Liu's f4 string, or how Jax is easy to win with because he has an overpowered FB and does a lot of damage and has a million krushing blows. It's these type of things. I think they happen so often that when you do try to have an actual conversation about a character, it turns into the get good or the downplaying. Hopefully this makes sense.

I'm not saying that this is what you're doing or even what tym as a whole does, but I feel like I see everywhere on other platforms.
 
F

FonicSox

Noob
craftycheese said:
They have definitely gotten better on that department. They did a pretty good job with the character changes they did in the last patch and overall designed a well balanced game.

I dunno how well I'm going to say what I mean, but To hopefully answer you question, It is frequency but i think it's more of the salty type overreactions that we have when calling for nerfs (or buffs). Like saying things like "He only won Dreamhack because he played Liu Kang", or talking about spamming Liu's f4 string, or how Jax is easy to win with because he has an overpowered FB and does a lot of damage and has a million krushing blows. It's these type of things. I think they happen so often that when you do try to have an actual conversation about a character, it turns into the get good or the downplaying. Hopefully this makes sense.

I'm not saying that this is what you're doing or even what tym as a whole does, but I feel like I see everywhere on other platforms.
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I see. Good post. Agreed.
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Agilaz

Agilaz

It has begun
Vslayer said:
Shit I guess I imagined playing his Erron at Dreamhack D:

Looks like he's gonna try someone else and hey, some weeks I don't feel Cassie, that's fine, I still always go back to her because she's the character I like the most to play as. I'm guessing it'll be the same for him.
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Is this a downplay of thethe downplay? Full circle bois
 
V

VELL1

Noob
FonicSox said:
By what measurement do you make such an assertion?
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By the fact that I see other characters in top100 players.

Overall though, every single time you guess right on him, he eats a full punish. All of his options are full combo punishable.

His main strength is his staggers, but other characters have it too.

Get better at the game, that's a sure way to counter Liu Kang.
 
F

FonicSox

Noob
VELL1 said:
By the fact that I see other characters in top100 players.

Overall though, every single time you guess right on him, he eats a full punish. All of his options are full combo punishable.

His main strength is his staggers, but other characters have it too.

Get better at the game, that's a sure way to counter Liu Kang.
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How is a wide variety of characters showing up in "top 100s" evidence that Liu Kang's strength is only felt at the highest levels of play? You didn't elaborate on your claim, you merely reworded and repeated it.

The rest of your post is deceptive. Liu Kang doesn't ever have to go into unsafeness during his f4 pressure. Case in point: Rewind, during his steamrolling of Foxy, Dragon and Sonic, didn't once use parry that I recall and going off memory never utilized either of his fireball options during the string. He kept it simple and reaped the rewards of the 9f stagger that at worst ended in giving up his turn if his opponent reacted/read when he was cutting it short, and at best resulted in one of two krushing blows. The fact he can take the gimmick a step further and has the option to blow up counter poke attempts is just icing on the cake and something you have to respect even if he literally never uses it.

Staggers are the crux of his game, but they aren't the end-all. In fact if they were appropriately offset with him struggling in other areas I suspect you'd have less outrage.

Jacqui and Jax may have 9f staggers, but those characters are also prone to being zoned out (well, somewhat in Jacqui's case). Liu Kang is not. There's not a single tool in this game that Liu doesn't have at his disposal. It's not any single aspect, it's all of them together. There's a reason he doesn't have bad matchups. Zoning, gap closing, two 9f mid staggers that result in multiple krushing blows, +3 12, a parry, an incredible hitbox on his 1 which makes it a miracle anti-air, great options to chip kill, a throw that yields oki and KBs on both, etc.

Getting better at the game benefits across the board, that has nothing to do with Liu Kang and isn't an answer to an issue of overtuning – and 'get better' is the mantra echoing throughout the land of degenerate johnny-come-lately Liu Kang mains everywhere while they roll around in their Wu Shi slop and eat KL points straight out of a trough.

Drivel, the lot of it.
 
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F

FonicSox

Noob
xKMMx said:
Shit like this is whats making me never check this site anymore. Its just constant whining these days. Either about who the current top tiers are or whos not in the game or who is.
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resumes checking site daily while whining about perceived "whining" and failing to see the comical nature of it all
 
xKMMx

xKMMx

Banned
FonicSox said:
resumes checking site daily while whining about perceived "whining" and failing to see the comical nature of it all
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Cause occasionally the people that are busier labbing than whining drop tech on here that can help the rest of us. As far as comical nature..... not too many people on here are actually funny. Most of the jokes made on here are corny as fuck. When I want comedy I'll watch Norm Macdonald, Bill Burr or Richard Pryor.
 
F

FonicSox

Noob
xKMMx said:
Cause occasionally the people that are busier labbing than whining drop tech on here that can help the rest of us. As far as comical nature..... not too many people on here are actually funny. Most of the jokes made on here are corny as fuck. When I want comedy I'll watch Norm Macdonald, Bill Burr or Richard Pryor.
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If you're looking to be spoon fed the deets on how to play the game, twitter offers said information in bite-sized snippets for your consumption. The character limit is also rather accommodating of short attention spans. Best of luck.
 
Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
trufenix said:
You didn't need to be "perfect" with those characters. You are grossly oversimplifying how absolutely FUCKED the top tiers were compared to the low tiers.
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Bruah, content of low Tiers, didn't even crossed my mind.

Fact is, LK is retarded friendly, in which case, nor was Kabal, or Cyrax. I don't disagree, that they were not broken, they were, but to be able to have success, they both really require much more, then Mongolian boi here will ever need.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
"people will just cry about the next character after the patch"

It may be true that people bitch and moan no matter what but that doesn't negate the fact sometimes it's right.

Past classifying him as outright broken or just top of cast it doesn't matter. He makes the game not fun to play. Online is about 65% Liu Kang, he's wrecking tournaments. You really have to be shilling to not see that he is not healthy for the longevity of the game.

At the same time we don't need anymore threads about him. That means the 'liu is fine' stupidity threads as well.
 
xKMMx

xKMMx

Banned
FonicSox said:
If you're looking to be spoon fed the deets on how to play the game, twitter offers said information in bite-sized snippets for your consumption. The character limit is also rather accommodating of short attention spans. Best of luck.
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Who's asking to be spoonfed? LOL. I'm just saying I come here for tech and discourse with regard to the game when it is helpful or interesting. Sounds like you need the spoon since you created yet another Liu Kang thread to have people pat you on the back about how its not your fault you lose to LK all the time.
 
F

FonicSox

Noob
xKMMx said:
Who's asking to be spoonfed? LOL. I'm just saying I come here for tech and discourse with regard to the game when it is helpful or interesting. Sounds like you need the spoon since you created yet another Liu Kang thread to have people pat you on the back about how its not your fault you lose to LK all the time.
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"Helpful or interesting" is in the eye of the beholder. The state of the game is consistently a relevant and hot topic among NRS titles because they have such a storied history of both patching too frequently and patching too drastically.

"Git gud" is the declaration of those utterly bereft of mind, whom communicate solely in spewing banal rhetoric they don't give the slightest forethought to prior to vomiting it forth and whom ultimately contribute zero to a given discussion. Take your posts for instance. You both don't enjoy these types of topics and by your own admission don't even enjoy browsing this board much anymore but have inexplicably decided for the second day in a row to share such thought provoking gems as "u must lose 2 liu kang a lot" and "I'm only here for techz!111"

Hilariously, telling someone they lose to a character in a thread dedicated to said character's overwhelming strength is not in fact an argument favoring your cause. Never mind the fact it's an assumption that demonstrably has no basis in the first place beyond you're out of responses and have thrown your hands up and conceded any attempt at a rational reply. I don't expect you'll appreciate the irony, but it's there nonetheless.

You were looking to be spoonfed. I've just obliged.
 
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