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Question re: downplay

Correct me if I'm wrong, because it's totally possible I'm misremembering, but is the level of downplay among Liu Kang players far more extreme than players of other top tiers from last season? Maybe it just appears that way because there's a bigger Liu player base and so they seem more vocal -- but I swear conversations about Sonya, Geras, Erron, et al. at least made it past the "can we agree your character needs to be nerfed" starting point, which is where the hangup seems to lie with Kang mains.

There's no discussion to even be had since they seem unwilling to even acknowledge their character is too strong to begin with, rather than accepting it and moving forward with proposed changes they feel are relevant but not crippling to their character.

Thoughts?
 
Loowk Ang is totally fine and not at all strong.

Just guess how to block bro, its ez. Lulz Kane bottom 5
Listen, Luiz Bartholomew Cane is objectively a shit character. I don't even understand how he staggers people when they can just take their turn with ease every time he's -7 (which is pretty much always). Maybe instead of crying about tier lists the rest of you lobotomized tangerines should consider gitting gud.

Hit me up on Snapchat if you want to lose to this bottom tier hatless discount Kung Lao trash in a first to 1, dudebro.

It's truth, not myth.
 

Agilaz

It has begun
On a more serious note, I think the downplay happens because that's just how this community is. Liu Kang players aren't unique in this.

You have people like Hayatei dropping Erron who is still a top character, Perfect Legend whining about Kung Lao, Honeybee dropping his supposed main for Noob even though D'vorah is really fucking solid now. Downplay will always happen.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Listen, Luiz Bartholomew Cane is objectively a shit character. I don't even understand how he staggers people when they can just take their turn with ease every time he's -7 (which is pretty much always). Maybe instead of crying about tier lists the rest of you lobotomized tangerines should consider gitting gud.

Hit me up on Snapchat if you want to lose to this bottom tier hatless discount Kung Lao trash in a first to 1, dudebro.

It's truth, not myth.
Why do people talk about his staggers so much when it's hardly the reason he's busted.
I'm more frustrated with his insane potential damage output, his bullshit grab KBs, his annoying fireballs and the fact that the entire stage gets caked in hitbox whenever he does anything.
He's simple a better Jax. "but jax has a command grab" yeah that's a 1 time KB that takes execution to nail down, versus 2 freaking piss easy KBs that are pretty much guaranteed.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
There is a big difference between being broke or being good.
Since i joined this site ive never seen so many posts about a character being broke then liu kang right now.
Sure he can be the best in the game but that doesn't mean hes broke. And so what if hes the best in the game, if he gets nerfed you cry about the next best character anyway just like you did with scorpion.
Maybe for some of these guys liu kang looks broke, but that just tells me how much experience in fighting games they really have, and if liu kang gives you sweaty pants in this game i can't imagine how many tears u would cry in early nrs games or just other fightinggames like sf or tekken or KI just to name a few.
 
Why do people talk about his staggers so much when it's hardly the reason he's busted.
I'm more frustrated with his insane potential damage output, his bullshit grab KBs, his annoying fireballs and the fact that the entire stage gets caked in hitbox whenever he does anything.
He's simple a better Jax. "but jax has a command grab" yeah that's a 1 time KB that takes execution to nail down, versus 2 freaking piss easy KBs that are pretty much guaranteed.
It's everything he has and not any one thing. The staggers just compound the problem because, being arguably the best in the game, they mean his other tools coming into play isn't a matter of if but when. It's not maybe you'll eat the f43u3 KB, or the bicycle kick KB, or the throw KBs -- you will eat them all. Every single match.
 
There is a big difference between being broke or being good.
Since i joined this site ive never seen so many posts about a character being broke then liu kang right now.
Sure he can be the best in the game but that doesn't mean hes broke. And so what if hes the best in the game, if he gets nerfed you cry about the next best character anyway just like you did with scorpion.
Maybe for some of these guys liu kang looks broke, but that just tells me how much experience in fighting games they really have, and if liu kang gives you sweaty pants in this game i can't imagine how many tears u would cry in early nrs games or just other fightinggames like sf or tekken or KI just to name a few.
The term "broken" is definitely used too liberally. Being the best character in the game is not a crime nor does it necessitate being woefully overpowered. Super Turbo Akuma is what broken looks like and is rightfully hard banned in tournaments.

I think even if it's hyperbole people understand what is meant by calling Liu busted or broken though. He is far and beyond the best in the game and effortlessly steps over the line of "this is strong but healthy and interesting/interactive gameplay."
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
The term "broken" is definitely used too liberally. Being the best character in the game is not a crime nor does it necessitate being woefully overpowered. Super Turbo Akuma is what broken looks like and is rightfully hard banned in tournaments.

I think even if it's hyperbole people understand what is meant by calling Liu busted or broken though. He is far and beyond the best in the game and effortlessly steps over the line of "this is strong but healthy and interesting/interactive gameplay."
I mean if u think liu kang in mk11 is "too strong to be healthy", what about 90% combos with cyrax, or kabals ndc's in mk9, compared to that liu kang in mk11 looks weak.

 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
I mean if u think liu kang in mk11 is "too strong to be healthy", what about 90% combos with cyrax, or kabals ndc's in mk9, compared to that liu kang in mk11 looks weak.

The only person, that ever had success with Cyrax, was DJT.
Regardless of the craps he had, for one: he required good execution and long time labbing. Kabal, yeah he had his NDC, but to apply it successfully, you had to had very high execution. Very few did well with Kabal, though many tried.

LK is easy braindead. Its not even close to Kabal, nor Cyrax. To play and win, you had to be a really good player. Kang has no such requirement.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Ohh those threads where toxic AF. I got called a down player for saying Liu Kang was definitely S Tier Top 5 min.
I said I didn't think he was busted but very very strong but there is counter play to every character and pointed out that he had jailing Prepatch, several other characters had +1 to +6 on block from jailing and he received a ton of nerfs to Luohan Quan most notibly F3/F3333/F3333xxSS and Fireball recovery.
I think Tier lists are very subjective and almost never the same across top player opinion.
I understand why some came to defend Liu Kang, because there where some saying he can win Top 8's with no skill and only using F4 lmao, completely disregarding Rewind, NinjaKilla & SylverRye.
There is a big difference between broke and top tier. Liu has strong tools but what we see from majors is players having very close matches into final round with several MU's. Showing liu isn't dominating but the player is out playing the player.

But yeah Liu is very strong but many characters have several of his tools just seems so many are salty and like to have that scapegoat.
Maybe its because I'm a Kabal Mean Streak main and generally have many tools to deal with him mostly out spacing his F4 so I don't generally have a problem in that matchup.
 
That guy again trying to lie he is maining Kabal, not his true main Liu Kang, and the downplay again and with his bulcrap talk about counterplay :D
Go tell that to SonicFox:
12:00

Liu recieved ton of nerfs is another ridiculous statement by you. I have to start record them, cause i lose record of them, they are so many lol.:D

And close matches? Ninja lost only 1 set if im not wrong and totally destroyed SonicFox(the best player in MK11), who also lost 2x time to Rewind in the previous major, which tells you the whole story.

How you understand btw if a character is Broken or just strong?
Strong character may have all the tools, but will have drawback. Lets said Cassie Cage was a strong character before it gets nerfed. Firstly you needed very good footsie/neutral and to mix your tools to play her.
She all all round mixed character, but for example have things that lacks. She doesnt have full screen move like Liu Kang, she doesnt have Kbs on throws(most imba thing currently), her FB sucks(FB and KBs are most important mechanics currently). She also had no corner combo in 1 of her variation.

Jacqui Briggs - very solid pressure character, she had big ranged tool in her Bionic Dash, she had some good KB(but still not as much as Liu Kang), but she had zero zoning and sh*** FB.

Sonya - she had it all and needed balance, but she still have bad matchups, she doesnt have throw KB, she doesnt have single combo KB, she doesnt have full screen ranged tool, doesnt have low zoning tool, tho her zoning was rock solid, and she had like 1 or 2 useful KBs. She had solid FB, but it lacks some range.

This was a definition of strong character.
Let see what Kang have in there

Best pressure, best round and turn stealer ING, best zoning for all round mixed character(he is even better by most zoner character in the right hands(for example Rewind and ninjakilla who outzone almost all characters), he has best hit confirm in the game. Every hit he does, he easy confirm into combo. And it doesnt need some ultra reaction or else. His string/combos are super easy, you cant drop them in any moment, there is like zero chance in doing some mistake even if you are a bit early or late for the input, unlike many characters, that need strict input timing.
6 Very solid High damage KBs. 4 of them you simply land every single set on will. 2 of them are throw KBs which in this throw meta is obviously N1. Best overall FB ing, that is hands down the most landed FB to steal rounds.
Best anti-zoning and anti-air ING. Best ranged tool in the game in his Flying Dragon Kick. You litteraly cant use any wakeups against this character or you going to eat big punish, cause of his Parry.
He also have best staggers and move in the game. His F4 is the best move ING, and nothing come close to it. Also he has best frame trap move currently.

Should i also mention he is braindead easy to use it, and you can master it in no time ?
In my eyes this is what broken means.

P.P. I see someone mention Scorpion in there. There was nothing wrong in Scorpion, he had a move, that was annoying to the mass, who was low to mid level and didnt know the matchup. But no one at high-pro level have any problem with Scorpion or that move. Scorpion and Sub Zero are also one of the worst placing characters in MK11 tournaments so far.
Yeah there is always people who will complain about anything, and even against character that are nothing special, but the case is Liu Kang is not such for sure.
Even the Magician(Kang) player admit long ago that the character is obviously broken.
 

kcd117

Noob
The Liu Kang downplay is kinda wild. Once the character touches you with pretty much anything you have like single digit percentual chances of guessing right lol.

But there are two other communities that downplay harder: Sub-Zero and JC.

I don’t know of a single character in this game that has a winning matchup against both variations of Sub and he is the most fraudulent character is this game by a mile (yes Liu Kang carries but he doesn’t 50/50 into 50% ggs like this scrub-friendly shitty designed character does)

JC is just a beast. He is solid. Extremely solid. Has options for days and is straight up bullshit against males that make his amplified fireball jail. I believe he beats the most stupid characters in this game (Geras, Erron and Liu) but somehow people seem to want him to be in a tier of his own by making his forceball jail against everyone.
 
The main thing with JC and Sub Zero is they maybe hard to masses and in low-mid level of gameplay, but they are no good in high-pro level of gameplay.
Sub Zero average placing in tournament is probably 30+, i dont recall Sub Zero in top 8. Sub Zero is a one trick pony character, that when you understand how to shut down his weapon is a good night for him.
Character doesnt have mixup potential and you have to look for 1 move only. His special move su**** big time as well. He litteraly have 2 special move in his Dead of Winter variation, and one of them is just amplify Ice Ball. He also have low-profiling issue in most of his move.

Kombat have 1 win with Johnny Cage, but that was long ago, and JC litteraly have below average results in high-pro level gameplay.

Also Johnny Cage has s**** FB and zero KBs.