Pre-release build Insomnia60 Wonder Woman!!

[Nivek]

Title says it clear..It is a test build with less characters, less stages and obviously NOT fully tested with doubtful frames!! My preview of her is only 2 days of testing and playing Injustice 2!!
Keep that in mind.

The weekend was such a great experience with good friends and a lot of games with K&M , OmegaK , Undeadjim and Missjimmy!!

I will go straight to the point!!

She is back and she looks strong! Just to be clear, not as strong as she was in Injustice 1!

Lets start with her moves and strings:

• B1(12) - 11f startup, longest sword move but still short range in general. Good for starting the mb shield toss combo. The full string is safe on block (-4) but no launch on hit, just a knockdown.
• 1(13) - 8f startup, short high punch mostly for punish. Full string is +2 on block and the last hit has massive range!
• 2(23) - 10f startup, short sword range. The only special about it is that the full string is +17 on block but it does have a gap.
• B2(3) - 21f startup, her 2nd longest range move. It is a launcher with small potential of damage without a bar (20~23%) and in the corner something more like 30%.Safe on block(-3) and her extention is super punishable -21 and uncancelable.
• f2(3) - 22f startup, is -6 on block but you get nothing on it's own. The whole string is full combo launcher for almost 40%,it is -19 and uncancelable.
• D1(2) - 6f startup, short range fast hit into sword slash. Nice interrupt and punish move. Be careful because it has bad recovery on whiff and with this short range is easy to get punished. Full string is -7 on block.
• D2 - 13f startup, her BEST range normal and anti air. It felt slower that I1 d2 so you have to be ready to antiair in comparison AM's d2(7f). Great mid range tool with small combo potential (~20%). The move is -11 on block so use it wisely.
• 3 - 14f startup, slow knockdown move but her strongest combo filler move in midscreen and corner. Launches for small combo in the corner and is +2 on block.
• D3 - 15f startup, her safe low option with hard knockdown. Also the low profile properties still exists.
• B3 - 27f startup, best follow up after f23 midscreen. Plus 7 on block.
• F3 - 29f startup, +6 on block. Good damage in the corner as a launcher or filler.
• Ji1 - 5f startup.Not such a strong crossup tool it used to be in I1. Bad jump in move with small advantage on hit but good air to air.
• Ji2 - 5f startup also but sucks as a jump in. Use it ONLY as a air to air move.
• Ji3 - 15f startup with 5 active frames. Super scary jump in move but slow and with no real damage potential. I was able to get something like 20% IF d12 was connected. It can be used really soon when you are high enough to interrupt opponents antiairs but if it's blocked you may be minus/safe.

Conclusion: Her sword and punch normals are really short which makes it really annoying to try to play very close. Her lasso normals compliment her mid range and is the best range you want to play but they are slow and should be used wisely.

Specials:

1. BF1 - 17f high +4 on block. No real followup on hit , even trait activation is risky vs zoners wakeups. Most damaging ender
2. DB1 - 5f parries mid special and normal moves. Small time damage buff and NO PROJECTILE REFLECTOR (yet?).
3. BF2 - 11f "mediocre" projectile punishable by most of the cast mid-far range and punishable by anyone. Mb it for damage up close and mid screen for combo(the more you delay it the more the advantage).
4. DB2 - really good antiair one prediction.mb it for more damage.
5. DB3 - 13f short special move. -8 on block, -10 the mb version. I found no real use about it.Also i got stuffed in wake up with it.
6. Super - really shorter than I1 super. Really big scaling on combo.
7. BF3 - oooooh myyyy gooood!! The only godlike move I found with her!! 6f special move -16 on block knockdown on hit! It has 16 active frames which makes it safe if you calculate the distance right. It has good whiff recovery and maybe it is plus on the late frames. Mb version is +2 and maybe in the later frames is even more plus!! Useful on combos and as a far filler. I loved that move <3

Conclusion: The most useful moves were the shield toss for combos and a bit zoning, the shield bash for almost everything and the lasso whip for combo ender. The most useless move was her shield upper.BUFF IT

Trait powers Hippolyta's light (still random):

1. Hermes (boots) : Air dash available.
2. Hestia'(lasso) : damage increase on lasso based attacks.
3. Athena's power (shield) : damage increase on shield based moves and shield toss erases opponents projectile.
4. Demeter's spirit (arms) : damage reduce.
5. Artemis' strenght (bracelets) : increase damage buff duration after a parry.(the least useful)

Conclusion: PLEASE MAKE HER TRAIT NOT RANDOM!! It took away all the fun. We need to choose the power we want to build a strategy around it!! Most useful ones were the damage nerf and air dash against zoners.The least one was the bracelets which was not easy to use and was very situational. One buff everyone suggested and agree is that the bracelets will reflect projectiles!!

COMBOS:
MIDSCREEN
No bar
D2 ~ 3 ~ bf1
D2 ~ b11/11/d12 ~ bf1
D2(far range) ~ d2 ~ bf1
D2(max range) ~ bf3

B2(close) ~ 3 ~ bf1
B2(close) ~ b11 ~ bf1
B2(mid) ~ d2 ~ d2 ~ bf1
B2(far) ~ d2 ~ bf1
B2(mid-far) ~ d2 ~ bf3(whiffs) ~ d12 ~ bf1 *side switch*

Ji3 ~ bf3
Ji3 ~ d12 ~ bf1
Ji3 ~ d2 ~ d2 ~ bf1

F23 ~ b3 ~ ji3 ~ 3 ~ bf1 *max damage*
F23 ~ b3 ~ ji3 ~ b11 ~ bf1
F23 ~ ji1 ~ 11 ~ bf1 *harder than it looks*
F23 ~ b3 ~ ji3 ~ d2 ~ bf3(whiffs) ~ d12 ~ bf1 *side switch*

B3 ~ ji3 ~ 3 ~ bf1
B3 ~ ji3 ~ d2 ~ bf3(whiffs) ~ d12 ~ bf1 *side switch*

1 bar
B11 ~ bf2mb ~ f23 ...
D12 ~ bf2mb ~ b3 ...
Also mb the bf1 or bf3 on the previous lists

2 bar
B2 ~ b3mb(cancel) ~ ji3 ~ 3 ~ bf1
F2 ~ b3mb(cancel) ~ ji3 ~ 3 ~ bf1
Also loop the b11 ~ mb bf2 . Be aware: more than two times loop is scaling so much that you end up with the same damage.

4 bars
F23 ~ ji3 ~ b11 ~ super *not worth it*

CORNER
B2/d2 ~ 11/22 ~ bf3 ~ 11/d12 ~ bf1

F23/f3 ~ 3 ~ 11/22 ~ bf3 ~ 11/d12 ~ bf1 *maybe max*

F23 ~ f3 ~ 3 ~ 11/22 ~ bf3 ~ d12 ~ bf3 *hard&swag*

3 ~ d12 ~ d12 ~ bf1

Bf3(last active) ~ d12 ~ d12 ~ bf1


Final thoughts:
I was really confuzed with her because she plays way different than her oldest self. I tried to gather and found as much info I could and the results were mixed.
She was able to zone and rush but without a huge success. Her mid range is where she shines and was the range that my opponents felt the pressure. The better walkspeed of the game helps her to get to that good range. She hits like a track but it is not easy to open your opponent. When she has a bar she is able to get in with shield bash but she wont be able to combo.
When the game drops I would like your opinions too ^^

Again keep in mind the game is under construction!!
Happy "waiting" with me!!!

 

[Tanno]

After reading this, I think that random power (Hippolyte's Light) reminds me of Faust's random throw (bombs, sweets and bricks) from Guilty Gears Xrd Revelator. Now, WW is the 2nd character I know with its random powers.

I hope they get rid of the random shit, and implement them with the face buttons.

 

[StormGoddess]

After reading this, I think that random power (Hippolyte's Light) reminds me of Faust's random throw (bombs, sweets and bricks) from Guilty Gears Xrd Revelator. Now, WW is the 2nd character I know with its random powers.

I hope they get rid of the random shit, and implement them with the face buttons.

Harley Quinn had it in Injustice 1

 

[Tanno]

Harley Quinn had it in Injustice 1

Bruh... Are they trying to kill the fun with making them random shitz? Did you try Harley Quinn to see if they got rid of it?

 

[StormGoddess]

Bruh... Are they trying to kill the fun with making them random shitz? Did you try Harley Quinn to see if they got rid of it?

Harley now sends out bud and lou?-the 2 hyenas -that her trait now

 

[ChatterBox]

Thanks so much for the write up!

That trait, it looks so good but the random part will keep me from coming back to her in this game I think. What a shame.

Was she fun to play as? Did she have any decent hit confirms?

 

[TheGabStandard]

@Nivek thanks for the detailed write up and it is greatly appreciated. I was willing to give the random trait thing the benefit of the doubt until I try it but after reading your write up I am not so sure.

Do you think you will stay committed to Diana or will you try other cast members to see who suits you?

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

While the random trait isn't exactly ideal, you're not losing anything without it. Plus from what seen in different footage it looks pretty quick so it's not like Lobo's reload where you need super specific setups just to activate it.
Plus in a way it keeps your opponent on their toes, "oh she got the lasso power up better watch out for those" and you instead focus on using lows and throws.
Granted you can get the same result if you can choose what power-up you get, I think they wanted it this way to give it the whole "the Light is giving her the power-up so she can't choose", and they also wanted it to be different from DeadShot's.

Plus there has been pretty strong characters in other games that have a "random" special/element, if the rest of the design is solid and doesn't rely on the randomness (which so far it doesn't) then she'll be fine.

 

[Lokheit]

I cringed soooo hard when they justified the random trait on stream saying they wanted players to adapt on the fly... when that's what any player would want to do to their opponents... I can't see an scenario where that's a valid game design excuse.

 

[Nivek]

Was she fun to play as? Did she have any decent hit confirms?

For a 2 day try out she was pretty enjoyable. All her double hit moves (11, 22, b11, d12) are hit confirmable into bf2 mb for 45%+ damage

Do you think you will stay committed to Diana or will you try other cast members to see who suits you?

If her trait remains random propably i will play her only for casual.(Sorry I'm not a gambler) On the other hand if her trait isn't random, she will be my main/secondary!!
In any case i will try almost the whole cast!

1)While the random trait isn't exactly ideal, you're not losing anything without it. 2)Plus from what seen in different footage it looks pretty quick so it's not like Lobo's reload where you need super specific setups just to activate it.
3)Plus in a way it keeps your opponent on their toes, "oh she got the lasso power up better watch out for those" and you instead focus on using lows and throws.
4)Granted you can get the same result if you can choose what power-up you get, I think they wanted it this way to give it the whole "the Light is giving her the power-up so she can't choose", and they also wanted it to be different from DeadShot's.

5)Plus there has been pretty strong characters in other games that have a "random" special/element, if the rest of the design is solid and doesn't rely on the randomness (which so far it doesn't) then she'll be fine.

Before I start..let's agree to disagree ^^
1)You lose extra damage/health and most important of all(vs zoners) the mobility if you don't use it at all.Also you have to sacrifice damage to be safe after combos, otherwise you can be punished after lasso grab(bf1) for example. I was getting punished by AM,DS,Harley and full combo punished by BC's trait and BM's hook.
2)The startup activation looks fast (1) but the recovery to move is actually very slow(48f). The worst thing is you go for a trait buff after a combo (ofc you get the buff you don't want most of the time because is one out of five) and you get punished on top of that, where you could just dash in and play without it with no risk.
Almost a full second animation for it too much!
3)I like how you think but most of the time for my opponent was like ''did he get the airdash? No? Ok continue to zone'' or if he wasn't a zoner was not such a threat anyway, because if you get no properties(better frames or extra moves/abillties) and only damage/health buff you don't gonna need to change your playstyle a lot.Combos were the same at all buffs anyway. *also don't forget..b2 20+ frames*
4) I don't like the excuse to be different from DS's. Why don't we make DS's trait random? They are only 3 and exclusive for zoning.. haha!!
5) Versus some matchups i need to rely on 2 or 3 trait powers to enjoy my time with her and her trait. I can play her with 1 less button(trait power) and always be on point. But where is the fun then?

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Deadshot's is his own weapons where WW gets a divine light. He chooses what to put in his guns but she can't choose what the light gives her.
I'm not agreeing with NRS I'm just stating why I think they did it this way lol.

Sucks to hear that the recovery is long after trait activation, so it is exactly like Lobo's reload... even worse actually coz you don't know what you'll get and you risk a punish as well as losing damage or a potential mixup.

Well the idea was that I figured that hers recovers quick compared to other power-up traits but the trade off is that she can't pick what power-up she gets.
Sadly that's not the case so they need to either reduce trait recovery or let you decide which one you can use. The third option is to make them always happen in a certain order like lasso > braclet > Boots > sheild > arms but idk if that will be better or worse than completely random.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

OMG I had faith on it being very fast so if you didn't get an usefull buff at least you wouldn't lose your momentum but oh well...


Anyway, thank you very much for the write-up, I am sure I will love her anyway.

 

[Nivek]

*Combos added on the first post*

 

[StormGoddess]

I wonder if NRS thinks she'll be too strong if her trait wasn't random.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tyler made it seem that her footsie game was really strong.

For those who will play with the gear, she could always have gear that replaces the random trait w/ something else.

 

[John Grizzly]

I had no desire to play her whatsoever in Injustice 1. She just didn't feel right to me. Her redesign seems super fun this time around and I'm definitely giving her a try. Gonna shield bash the shit out of people.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Her trait seems lackluster to me. Honestly the randomness feels tacked on since they know everyone would be picking Boots like 90% of the time if people could choose the buffs. I'd be ok with a random trait if the other "blessings" were more distinctive or offered some innovative unique utility (like a teleport, a fast projectile off a successful bracer parry a la Mk9 Kratos, command throw lasso special, etc) but nooooope.

Moderate damage buffs and dam resists. Really uninspired design from the outside looking in right now imo. Basically you're just rolling the dice hoping to eventually get Boots is what it sounds like. Also, from what @Nivek is saying, there's enough recovery that trait isn't safe to just throw out there willy-nilly. So the idea of having a rotation of buffs up for the majority of the match might not be plausible.

Anyone else notice how light of a delve her Watchtower stream was a while back? I mean I get that she's a returning character but they changed so much from her INJ 1 counterpart that she might as well be new.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Well as long as her neutral and damage is good enough it can offset the trait but I guess we will see.

 

[Rathalos]

Going by how you guys talked about the shield charge on that podcast, I hope it gets toned down a bit.

I don't want to see her get fucked over and overnerfed because she had a dumb move at the start of the game.

For her trait, I would just prefer they give her back her air dash by default, and just make a single power trait that empowers the shield to destroy projectiles, and increases the lasso damage.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Well as long as her neutral and damage is good enough it can offset the trait but I guess we will see.

Luckily it sounds like she has a solid neutral with good damage off of 0-1 bars similar to INJ 1. I just hate seeing character traits relegated to forgetabble or minimally useful. Again, this is all pre-release so maybe it's not as underwhelming as it seems.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Going by how you guys talked about the shield charge on that podcast, I hope it gets toned down a bit.

I don't want to see her get fucked over and overnerfed because she had a dumb move at the start of the game.

For her trait, I would just prefer they give her back her air dash by default, and just make a single power trait that empowers the shield to destroy projectiles, and increases the lasso damage.

I really need to finish that podcast. Here it is in MP3 if anyone needs it.

https://www.mediafire.com/download/8u2j598ajaeot3v

 

[trufenix]

There are about six characters in Inj1 that would kill for 1 of 5 random buffs with no downside. Hell, Inj1 WW would kill for it. Most people didn't even know she had one.

 

[Saboteur-6]

There are about six characters in Inj1 that would kill for 1 of 5 random buffs with no downside. Hell, Inj1 WW would kill for it. Most people didn't even know she had one.

Your point?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

There are about six characters in Inj1 that would kill for 1 of 5 random buffs with no downside. Hell, Inj1 WW would kill for it. Most people didn't even know she had one.

Stahp! Her trait in IGAU wasn't bad at all! It was just that lasso stance was 10 times better.

 

[trufenix]

Your point?

Uh, so maybe play a couple matches before deciding its "forgettable and minimally useful" ?

 

[trufenix]

Stahp! Her trait in IGAU wasn't bad at all! It was just that lasso stance was 10 times better.

Stahp what? If you could trade sword stance for any of those four buffs and just play a superman / lantern-esque whip stance only WW you would in a heartbeat.