General/Other - Ferra/Torr [Pre-patch] KP2 buff/nerf thread

[Barrogh]

He needs some tick grabs, jesus fuck. Erron has like 129 ticks...

Which are completely worthless due to reversal option selects.
Vicious do have some ticks.

 

[Wetdoba]

Which are completely worthless due to reversal option selects.
Vicious do have some ticks.

We dont need tick throws off B12 or B121 like Erron anyway thats just a gimmicky guessing game to throw in for no reason. Id rather the character promote solid play by having everything work like it should aka Torryuken actually being an anti air that beats air attacks on reaction not just getting stuffed into full combo even though Im just waiting for them to jump the whole time

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

What if they changed f2 to track the opponent, giving as an aa grab option? so if they were jumping in you would snatch them out of the air and bounce them up behind you? Too broke??

 

[Wetdoba]

What if they changed f2 to track the opponent, giving as an aa grab option? so if they were jumping in you would snatch them out of the air and bounce them up behind you? Too broke??

Dont make it track just increase the verticle hitbox, it already kind of does this at certain ranges

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Vicious do have some ticks

the most reactable tick in the game.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Fixes (not really what I'd call buffs): * Amend Ferra's 're-mount' AI so that it's less ridiculous. Just have her run to wherever Torr is, stay in that spot until he gets up, and then climb onto him again. The endless running that has a chance of bugging things up is just so unnecessary.
* Alter their hitbox a little so that they aren't vulnerable to silly blockstring stuff that no one else is vulnerable to.

Buffs: * Ferra Toss - the hitbox shouldn't go away when Torr is hit; the move should stay active like Slide does.
* Lackey b2; startup reduced to 19 or 20 frames.
* Ruthless/Vicious b232+4; remove the armorable gap.
* Lackey Roll; slight reduction in recovery

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Do you guys think any changes should be made to the Ferra throws (outside of Torr getting hit dropping Ferra)? Some ideas

what I would really like is IF Boss toss eats a projectile from full screen, Ferra would bounce off it and reach them on the other side. While its great that she eats projectiles, it kind of a waste at full screen cuz we have to wait till she comes back until we are a threat, and the opponent has plenty of time to back up again and continue zoning if we try and run up.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I really, really like the Charge cancel idea. It would be like Kabal's Nomad Dash, except way slower but eats projectiles on the first few frames. Could even bait opponents into whiffing if they think we've committed to the charge. It's not like other characters can't cancel their teleports.

 

[Wetdoba]

Do you guys think any changes should be made to the Ferra throws (outside of Torr getting hit dropping Ferra)? Some ideas

what I would really like is IF Boss toss eats a projectile from full screen, Ferra would bounce off it and reach them on the other side. While its great that she eats projectiles, it kind of a waste at full screen cuz we have to wait till she comes back until we are a threat, and the opponent has plenty of time to back up again and continue zoning.

That would be weird, Id rather have Torr just recover earlier on hit so he has time to move around seperately from Ferra

 

[Doombawkz]

I really, really like the Charge cancel idea. It would be like Kabal's Nomad Dash, except way slower but eats projectiles on the first few frames. Could even bait opponents into whiffing if they think we've committed to the charge. It's not like other characters can't cancel their teleports.

People said Bane needed this.
He didn't

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I really, really like the Charge cancel idea. It would be like Kabal's Nomad Dash, except way slower but eats projectiles on the first few frames. Could even bait opponents into whiffing if they think we've committed to the charge. It's not like other characters can't cancel their teleports.

Instead of a cancel (which is a great buff) what if you successfully eat a projectile the opponent is in a pseudo blockstun (like they are confused that Torr just tanked the fireball). 4 frames is a tiny window (1/15th of a second) and I feel like its a fair reward for being able to catch it, and it also changes up the opponents fullscreen game.

That would be weird, Id rather have Torr just recover earlier on hit so he has time to move around seperately from Ferra

it would, but like I said it sucks to have her successfully eat a projectile, but they are too far outside her range to be punished for it, if anything we are punishing ourselves cuz their is no risk to them throwing out projectiles from fullscreen and we are left with no options to combat whatever they want to do next.

I think Torr being able to move earlier in Boss Toss should be a given.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

As far as improved aa lets just extend the vertical hitbox on b2 and speed it up a frame or two (we can slow down f2 to balance).

It sucks at crossups, but bf3 does a pretty good job of stuffing jump ins.

 

[Wetdoba]

As far as improved aa lets just extend the vertical hitbox on b2 and speed it up a frame or two (we can slow down f2 to balance).

It sucks at crossups, but bf3 does a pretty good job of stuffing jump ins.

B2 already doesnt have a hurtbox, is overhead, good range, and meterless launcher, it doesnt need to be faster or better really imo

 

[CabooseLeGoose]

Lackey:
Consistent anti-air on crossovers off DB2.
Less recovery on Boulder Roll.
This one is not needed but I just want to throw the idea out there. The ability to burn a bar during Torr Charge to command grab an opponent, similar to Air Kano Ball.
Luxury adjustment, to reduce the distance which Back Breaker throws the opponent. Kind of goes against the up close nature of the variation.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

People said Bane needed this.
He didn't

We don't need it. We want it. That would be fun as fuck and you know it.

It's broken because depending on how it's done, we could just cancel it immediately into another Charge with armor on startup. Spam that a few times with a teabag or two in between and then truck them for the Trample Brutality.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

B2 already doesnt have a hurtbox, is overhead, good range, and meterless launcher, it doesnt need to be faster or better really imo

This is all true, but I feel like F/T is a character with the least amount of options in any situation. Not that they are bad options, we just don't have that many. So I would just like to see a few of them improved.

 

[Wetdoba]

We don't need it. We want it. That would be fun as fuck and you know it.

It's broken because depending on how it's done, we could just cancel it immediately into another Charge with armor on startup. Spam that a few times with a teabag or two in between and then truck them for the Trample Brutality.

Wouldnt even be broke, Grundy had 3 hits of armor on the entire duration of his, we would have 1 hit on the first 4 frames only, but we could spend meter to be like Frundy. Oh god this combined with roll going under high projectiles would just be so good and fun as shit. That would be the overhaul Lackey gets like Ruthless got with PnG cancels. Then Vicious just needs delayed MB Boss Toss and were in business

 

[Wetdoba]

This is all true, but I feel like F/T is a character with the least amount of options in any situation. Not that they are bad options, we just don't have that many. So I would just like to see a few of them improved.

Thats why Id rather improve their weaker moves, B2 is already a strong option when we need it to be

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Wouldnt even be broke, Grundy had 3 hits of armor on the entire duration of his, we would have 1 hit on the first 4 frames only, but we could spend meter to be like Frundy. Oh god this combined with roll going under high projectiles would just be so good and fun as shit. That would be the overhaul Lackey gets like Ruthless got with PnG cancels. Then Vicious just needs delayed MB Boss Toss and were in business

But if I recall wasn't Grundy's walk a lot slower than Torr's charge? If you could read it then you could just cross him up or something, can't do that to Torr.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Dunno about you guys but I want b121 xx db2 fixed. It is a true blockstring against characters with a big enough hurtbox like F/T, even the close toss goes right over the females, whiffing if they duck it, and it has a gap for the rest of the cast. Seems to me like a hurtbox shouldn't create so many variables, just make it function as a true blockstring all the time.

 

[Wetdoba]

Dunno about you guys but I want b121 xx db2 fixed. It is a true blockstring against characters with a big enough hurtbox like F/T, even the close toss goes right over the females, whiffing if they duck it, and it has a gap for the rest of the cast. Seems to me like a hurtbox shouldn't create so many variables, just make it function as a true blockstring all the time.

Free plus 6 off our best pressure string is pretty cheap, Im fine with just S4 and F2 jailing into the overhead toss. However the females and skinny bitches like Shinnok shouldnt be able to duck our overhead

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Free plus 6 off our best pressure string is pretty cheap, Im fine with just S4 and F2 jailing into the overhead toss. However the females and skinny bitches like Shinnok shouldnt be able to duck our overhead

Same goes for Jax

 

[Barrogh]

But if I recall wasn't Grundy's walk a lot slower than Torr's charge? If you could read it then you could just cross him up or something, can't do that to Torr.

Grundy could also reverse cancel on a suitable read and occasionally d2 after that.

 

[Wigy]

Which are completely worthless due to reversal option selects.
Vicious do have some ticks.

Yeah nobody ever gets caught by sonic fox and his 21122 ticks

 

[Barrogh]

Yeah nobody ever gets caught by sonic fox and his 21122 ticks

What is this, May?
Seriously though. If people don't train themselves to use OS, it's only their problem, and not tick mixups working. And I do know that even people from backwater communities train to do that.

They, of course, can work if opponent doesn't have meter. Is that what you want for F/T though?