Breakthrough - Ferra/Torr [Pre-patch] Ferra/Torr Block Infinite

[Pig Of The Hut]

Already did twice in the OP with my corrections, there's a difference between being +11 and being +1 or neutral though.

But sure, sorry Jacqui players.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

lol feel better Pig?

 

[MadeFromMetal]

First of all, can we stay on topic? Some of these arguments have nothing to do with the thread and should be in pm's.

Second...I could be wrong...But I'm pretty sure the EX OH Toss is not pluIs. When blocked, it definitely doesn't feel like I can move first, compared to the regular one.

Lastly, while I'd rather it stay +6, I'd be fine with +3 or +4...That would get rid of the infinite, correct? While still allowing pressure to be applied. Personally, I'd much rather have the plus frames than the new launchers even if the frames were toned town.

 

[omooba]

Personally, I'd much rather have the plus frames than the new launchers even if the frames were toned town.

same i honestly hate the launchers

 

[Doombawkz]

First of all, can we stay on topic? Some of these arguments have nothing to do with the thread and should be in pm's.

Second...I could be wrong...But I'm pretty sure the EX OH Toss is not pluIs. When blocked, it definitely doesn't feel like I can move first, compared to the regular one.

Lastly, while I'd rather it stay +6, I'd be fine with +3 or +4...That would get rid of the infinite, correct? While still allowing pressure to be applied. Personally, I'd much rather have the plus frames than the new launchers even if the frames were toned town.

infinite doesn't exist. Making it +3 or +4 wouldn't change anything really either.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

this thread is amazing

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I didn't know it was a infinite on certain characters because really I never labbed it but I knew it was tough to get out of and ferra torr was plus after oh toss by watching the Toronto weeklies and seeing biohazard always doing that to ppl in corner.

I'm sorry ferra torr players you guys went from no one giving a shit to being the main spotlight for nerfs in a matter of weeks lol

I'm sorry, Mileena says haaai.

 

[HuttonMD]

I'm sorry, Mileena says haaai.

Lol yea definitely she another one kinda in same situation with her b12 string

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Buff quan

 

[flappysamyhamy]

What did I wake up to

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Okay, I shared Goro tech and SonicFoxx commented on it, doesn't mean he is actively contributing to the site and sharing all of this tech. YOMI as a whole was barley active on this site. REO has always posted tech and we are all thankful for him for doing it.

EVO Top 8.

Zyphox
SonicFoxx
MIT
DJT
Milky
Foxy
Honeybee
Ketchup

Not knocking these top players, but this site isn't what it used to be when the top players actively posted and shared tech, and I don't blame them for not doing it. People on this site just talk and complain instead of finding ways around something. I have done it a few times, then I went to the lab and learned it.

You cannot dispute that Shadow. I enjoy the site and what it brings to the community, it is the sole reason why I am in the MK scene.

As far as sharing tech, certain players are sharing less of it publicly in general. A lot has moved to private conversation, keeping things within teams/friends, letting people do their own work for themselves.

The MK community won't be the same as it was in 2011/early 2012, but that's what happens when an extremely young/new community grows, gets bigger, and has more money on the line. But it's the community as a whole, not any particular forum.

You are still going to find a much bigger ratio of tech and tournament player discussion here than you will on Shoryuken, EH, or any big community. It's natural and to be expected.

Someone like Hayatei is overlooked, although he and Rap just beat a number of people on the 'fan favorites' list, and he's been sharing a lot here. Sometimes people overlook what's right under their noses.

 

[dennycascade]

First of all, can we stay on topic? Some of these arguments have nothing to do with the thread and should be in pm's.

Second...I could be wrong...But I'm pretty sure the EX OH Toss is not pluIs. When blocked, it definitely doesn't feel like I can move first, compared to the regular one.

Lastly, while I'd rather it stay +6, I'd be fine with +3 or +4...That would get rid of the infinite, correct? While still allowing pressure to be applied. Personally, I'd much rather have the plus frames than the new launchers even if the frames were toned town.

Nah, just make ferra come back a frame or two later after the overhead toss. that way we keep the plus frames and lose the crying.

 

[KeyserSoze]

classic

 

[JDM]

Hmm..? Where did I say that it wasn't? My post just reiterates that this has been known.

ah ok. I misread your intention then

 

[SM StarGazer]

If one character can't get out, I don't care if it was known since Day -3, it needs to be nerfed. The LAST thing we need to see is Takeda buffs to compensate. Jacqui had to get both versions of rocket nerfed because one and only one character, F/T of all of them couldn't get out. All you F/T players came in the Jacqui forum for the only time ever pushing for her nerf. Now all I have is memories of how good rockets used to be. No sympathy from me.

Paulo don't let me down. I expect this to be Jacqui'd on March 1st or I call bs. I'm itching to make a thread about hypocrisy and double standards. Don't give me more ammunition.


/AlphaOut

Add Mournful to your list of demands and you have my support.

 

[Doombawkz]

If one character can't get out, I don't care if it was known since Day -3, it needs to be nerfed. The LAST thing we need to see is Takeda buffs to compensate. Jacqui had to get both versions of rocket nerfed because one and only one character, F/T of all of them couldn't get out. All you F/T players came in the Jacqui forum for the only time ever pushing for her nerf. Now all I have is memories of how good rockets used to be. No sympathy from me.

Paulo don't let me down. I expect this to be Jacqui'd on March 1st or I call bs. I'm itching to make a thread about hypocrisy and double standards. Don't give me more ammunition.


/AlphaOut

Do you care to wager?

MY prophecy against your justice.

If I win, you have to share a character with me next game and relish in the buffs you know you don't deserve.
If you win, I'll main whatever character you want for the same effect.

 

[SaltShaker]

Do you care to wager?

MY prophecy against your justice.

If I win, you have to share a character with me next game and relish in the buffs you know you don't deserve.
If you win, I'll main whatever character you want for the same effect.

Lmao! My characters always get nerfed and yours always get buffed so it would be the ultimate test lol.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

What did I wake up to

hey dude, I know you from the tgz stream.

 

[ryublaze]

ok after hours of testing lemme try to clear up all confusion

@Doombawkz brought up that you can crouch block b121 and duck after Ferra Toss to make b1 whiff because of the pushback. This only applies to Takeda out of the 4 characters because of weird hitboxes. Yes this is true, but only if you delay it too early. If you walk forward and delay it a bit more then the b1 won't whiff. At best Takeda can trade with b1. So it's a pseudo block infinite on Takeda.

For Erron Black, Kenshi and Kitana it is a true block infinite. There's absolutely nothing they can do if you time it frame perfect.

If these characters are going to get 7 frame pokes, then it might still be a pseudo block infinite on them but the only way to find out is to test it after the patch.

 

[Doombawkz]

My only problem is the only thing I can test with 100% certainty on the subject is if the characters can manipulate position enough to get clear counters off of b.121xxOH toss into b.1212 without any delays.
Replicating that timing to be so precise and ensuring its not any slower or faster would be too hard to consistently demonstrate since, to the naked eye, the only difference would be our results.

I've managed a trade as Kenshi with even a slight delay between b.121xxOH toss into b.1212 with his d.2 using a duck, stand, duck, stand block.
Erron needed to do like three crouching blocks in a row but it wasn't consistent, but I found a bit of success with stand duck stand stand block.
Kitana I'm not good with her timings. Looked like her best bet would be like... just stand blocking. Idk on this one, stand blocking pushes Torr the furthest back and is the only time where b.1212 is whiffing sometimes, so with a delay then maybe?

 

[SHAOLIN]

Universal criteria for infinites:
1. Can all characters poke out of it?

2. Does it require meter to get out of it(stamina included)?

 

[Doombawkz]

Universal criteria for infinites:
1. Can all characters poke out of it?

2. Does it require meter to get out of it(stamina included)?

1. If the timing is slightly off for one side, possibly but we need to see what changes stay and go.

2. It doesn't, but meter is a free escape.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

This is going to be off-topic but I just have this lingering question in my mind for a really long time: Why do we call these things "block infinites" when they're technically not? Like a block infinite would be pre-patch Scorpion's 214 xx FBC with infinite stamina or Kabal's frame-perfect 2 xx NDC.

While you still need meter to escape, it means there's is actually a gap and you CAN escape. IDK if there needs to be a new term made up for this or w/e but calling them "block infinites" is just inaccurate. Also stop saying hitbox(attacking area) when you mean hurtbox(vulnerable area).

 

[Doombawkz]

This is going to be off-topic but I just have this lingering question in my mind for a really long time: Why do we call these things "block infinites" when they're technically not? Like a block infinite would be pre-patch Scorpion's 214 xx FBC with infinite stamina or Kabal's frame-perfect 2 xx NDC.

While you still need meter to escape, it means there's is actually a gap and you CAN escape. IDK if there needs to be a new term made up for this or w/e but calling them "block infinites" is just inaccurate. Also stop saying hitbox(attacking area) when you mean hurtbox(vulnerable area).

The term is usually referred to as "psuedo-block infinites" meaning while there is a means to escape, there isn't a consistent means that can be performed without requiring something such as meter or a certain set-up or timing failure.

So if I were to do a move that was +12 on block and +16 and the move itself was 17 frames, and you only had a 9 frame move to counter with it, then you could consider that a psuedo-block infinite since, without resource, you can't normally escape it with your character, and even taking the hit doesn't provide you with a way to get out.

And yeah the hitbox/hurtbox thing is annoying but its clear what they mean so I usually don't call people on it, and I've been known to make the mistake myself.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

The term is usually referred to as "psuedo-block infinites" meaning while there is a means to escape, there isn't a consistent means that can be performed without requiring something such as meter or a certain set-up or timing failure.

So if I were to do a move that was +12 on block and +16 and the move itself was 17 frames, and you only had a 9 frame move to counter with it, then you could consider that a psuedo-block infinite since, without resource, you can't normally escape it with your character, and even taking the hit doesn't provide you with a way to get out.

And yeah the hitbox/hurtbox thing is annoying but its clear what they mean so I usually don't call people on it, and I've been known to make the mistake myself.

I know. All I'm saying is that terms would be better off being used correctly