Match-up Discussion Pre-Evo 2014 Aquaman MU Chart

[A F0xy Grampa]

WoWo is probably better off in shield stance vs Aquaman, that can cause him issues, she also can pretty much trap him in the corner with B23 forever.
I think the safe meterless shield bashes, + frames and 5050s in shield stance are more equipped to deal with AM than Lasso stance.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Agreed with the frost MU.

I only thought he to her IMO. Didnt know he had other bad ones

 

[Derptile]

What are you actual reasons to have Shazam winning the Aquaman Match up?

Well, I'm on my phone right now so please excuse any grammatical or common errors.

The main and most important reason in which Shazam beats Aquaman is that Shazam absolutely destroys Aquaman on wakeup. Everyone knows just how terrible Aquaman's wakeups are, even KTP went on a little rant on how Aquaman can't get off the ground. Shazam has been surprisingly blessed in this MU because he has a plethora of options to butt-fuck Aquaman on wakeup. Lemme list some things that he can do:

CMD grab on wakeup
Read wakeup and punish after blocking it.
Allow wakeup to whiff and punish it.
Cross up and can do j3/j2 into CMD grab which is tremendously fucked up in this MU.

In short: Shazam can mind-fuck the Aquaman player on wakeup because we have so many more options to continue the hard knockdown vortex.

Now that I finished discussing about wakeups, I can go into several other reasons on why shazam beats Aquaman.

1) Shazam's movement is one of the best in the game, and he has no trouble getting in against Aquaman.
2) Shazam is one of the few characters that can reliably punish Trident rush.
3) Shazam's b2 and CMD Grab have excellent range which allow's him to bypass some of Aquaman's footsies that the rest of the cast find hard to deal with.
4) Whiff punishing with b2 and CMD grab is also easy so the aquaman player can't be pressing buttons the whole time.
5) B2 and CMD grab can open the Aquaman player up, since one is an overhead that goes half screen and the other is command grab that has very good range, is very fast, and leads to a full combo. If the aquaman player knows this, he/she is obviously gonna start being jittery and pressing buttons and that's where point "4" comes in, you can make a smart read on when ever their gonna press buttons and slowly walk back, and when they whiff whatever their doing, you can whiff punish.
6) Teleport means Shazam can get off the ground free and judging by the situation, can either get in or run away from aquaman. It's essentially a free Forward/Back dash on wakeup and it's ALMOST unpunishable.

In short: Shazam is allowed to play his game against Aquaman, but Aquaman can't play his game to the fullest against Shazam.

I like arguments, so if you have any please provide them.

EGP Wonder_Chef

 

[RIF]

Aquaman vs Sinestro might be 7-3 in Aquaman's favor

- D2 stops AoT pressure
- FTD punishes shackles and boulders from full screen
- FTD punishes blocked Fear Blasts at 1/2 screen away
- FTD stops Sinestro from charging trait
- FTD does more chip than Fear Blast. In a game of attrition, Aquman will win.
- Sinestro cannot punish Trident Rush
- Aquman's trait shuts down Sinestro's Vortex
- Sinestro cannot go for B13 against Aquaman. This means his damage usually comes from B12->Shackles which is far less damaging than his normal BNB. (Since Trait will stop the Vortex)
- Aquaman's Ji2 beats out Sinestro's D2 (Sinestro's D2 is over-rated compared)
- Sinestro cannot safely backdash after a blocked B12 due to the range and reach of Aquman's normals/specials

 

[derOeler]

WoWo is probably better off in shield stance vs Aquaman, that can cause him issues, she also can pretty much trap him in the corner with B23 forever.
I think the safe meterless shield bashes, + frames and 5050s in shield stance are more equipped to deal with AM than Lasso stance.

You mean safe meterless shield bashes, because you can parry afterwards?
Also, to which mixup do you refer in ss? B2,3/b2,1?

 

[Justice]

I agree with the Catwoman number but it's a hard 6/4 for her. It takes her almost completely out of her comfort zone and if the Selina player doesn't know the matchup, it could look positively 9/1 or even 10/0.

 

[NurzBenny]

just tap button 4 on your game pad and enjoy yourself.

This is sneakily the funniest thing I've ever read on here. General M2Dave thank you for this

 

[Indecisive]

Well, I'm on my phone right now so please excuse any grammatical or common errors.

The main and most important reason in which Shazam beats Aquaman is that Shazam absolutely destroys Aquaman on wakeup. Everyone knows just how terrible Aquaman's wakeups are, even KTP went on a little rant on how Aquaman can't get off the ground. Shazam has been surprisingly blessed in this MU because he has a plethora of options to butt-fuck Aquaman on wakeup. Lemme list some things that he can do:

CMD grab on wakeup
Read wakeup and punish after blocking it.
Allow wakeup to whiff and punish it.
Cross up and can do j3/j2 into CMD grab which is tremendously fucked up in this MU.

In short: Shazam can mind-fuck the Aquaman player on wakeup because we have so many more options to continue the hard knockdown vortex.

Now that I finished discussing about wakeups, I can go into several other reasons on why shazam beats Aquaman.

1) Shazam's movement is one of the best in the game, and he has no trouble getting in against Aquaman.
2) Shazam is one of the few characters that can reliably punish Trident rush.
3) Shazam's b2 and CMD Grab have excellent range which allow's him to bypass some of Aquaman's footsies that the rest of the cast find hard to deal with.
4) Whiff punishing with b2 and CMD grab is also easy so the aquaman player can't be pressing buttons the whole time.
5) B2 and CMD grab can open the Aquaman player up, since one is an overhead that goes half screen and the other is command grab that has very good range, is very fast, and leads to a full combo. If the aquaman player knows this, he/she is obviously gonna start being jittery and pressing buttons and that's where point "4" comes in, you can make a smart read on when ever their gonna press buttons and slowly walk back, and when they whiff whatever their doing, you can whiff punish.
6) Teleport means Shazam can get off the ground free and judging by the situation, can either get in or run away from aquaman. It's essentially a free Forward/Back dash on wakeup and it's ALMOST unpunishable.

In short: Shazam is allowed to play his game against Aquaman, but Aquaman can't play his game to the fullest against Shazam.

I like arguments, so if you have any please provide them.

EGP Wonder_Chef

A lot of the cast has terrible WU options. But that doesn't mean that Shazam Beats all of them. Im pretty sure Aquaman can do a lot that the cast have trouble with. I think Aquaman is able to punish B2 Torpedo which sucks for Shazam if he can. From the Deep can do an easy job at punishing Shazams WU Teleport game. And Aquaman does have Trident Rush as a selectable WU option. I never thought i would see the day that some decided to Upplay Shazam. I think the number that Theo gave is actually pretty generous but it works imo.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I still feel it's 7-3 vs Zatanna

Maybe it's easier offline.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I can agree with Joker being a 6-4 (I would push it to a 6.5-3.5, but I don't like that crap lol). I think it sucks trying to open Aquaman up with Joker, but once you knock him down, Aquaman struggles to recover in this matchup. His absurd d2, trait, superior footsies, and the fact that 212 whiffs on him when he blocks low hurt Joker's chances against him pretty significantly.

 

[Derptile]

A lot of the cast has terrible WU options. But that doesn't mean that Shazam Beats all of them. Im pretty sure Aquaman can do a lot that the cast have trouble with. I think Aquaman is able to punish B2 Torpedo which sucks for Shazam if he can. From the Deep can do an easy job at punishing Shazams WU Teleport game. And Aquaman does have Trident Rush as a selectable WU option. I never thought i would see the day that some decided to Upplay Shazam. I think the number that Theo gave is actually pretty generous but it works imo.

Well, alot of the cast's WU options aren't as bad as Aquaman's. Idk about the b2 torpedo thing since I don't really use it, but I think it just barely gets by. I seriously doubt FTD can punish the WU teleport unless you're talking about when he's reappearing. Shazam doesn't even need to exclusively use WU tele, he has WU CMd grab and to a much lesser extent WU torpedo plus FTD isn't even safe and is punishable from halfscreen. As for the trident rush WU option, I don't really see what you're trying to say since crossup>trident rush or any other one of his WU. Oh and I forgot to mention in my original post that Aquaman's trait is kinda pointless in this matchup outside of beating f22

I'm not a Shazam upplayer, I'm just the original Shazam player trying to keep it real. I have no problem in admitting where Shazam sucks huge cawk, like the vanilla BA vs shazam MU, a solid 8-2 and I will say that any BA player who had ever lost to a shazam player back then should've just quit the game.

EDIT: Yes on my phone again.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I think Arrow is 8-2 or 7.5-3.5 but I have been known to up play.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

So are we gonna put these all together one day and make a tier list that doesn't just come off the top of someones head (mine included) but from actual numbers?

Yup, there's already a calculated tier list based on a combination of MU charts.

But imo none of these numbers are set in stone and a tier list still means little right now. There are still too many unknowns postpatch and characters that still need to be pushed to their limits in every MU.

 

[Glass Sword]

I agree with Tom Raven goes 5-5. Ducky thinks its Aquaman's favor since he plays people who he can't regulate unlike 95% of other players. The match is very give and take. Raven can chip Aquaman just as well as Aquaman can chip her.
I really can't give a more articulate argument right now, but yeah. Tom is normally right when he gets to clarify so I'm sticking with him.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Killer Frost can punish from the deep. 6-4

 

[Tom Brady]

Some of Theo's numbers are the popular opinion. Scorpion is listed as 7-3 but we saw that Theo did not know what to do vs a Scorpion who knew how to fight Aquaman. Theo CLEARLY did not know the mu yet posts the score of a match we all saw he didn't know.

This is not a knock on Theo, he is an amazing player. However, unless I can do it myself I don't give a score in my personal mu until I play at least 500 or more games vs many, many, MANY players in just ONE mu.

 

[Glass Sword]

Some of Theo's numbers are the popular opinion. Scorpion is listed as 7-3 but we saw that Theo did not know what to do vs a Scorpion who knew how to fight Aquaman. Theo CLEARLY did not know the mu yet posts the score of a match we all saw he didn't know.

This is not a knock on Theo, he is an amazing player. However, unless I can do it myself I don't give a score in my personal mu until I play at least 500 or more games vs many, many, MANY players in just ONE mu.

When I get back to the states I want my 1000 matches. I know you received my messages.

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

Some of Theo's numbers are the popular opinion. Scorpion is listed as 7-3 but we saw that Theo did not know what to do vs a Scorpion who knew how to fight Aquaman. Theo CLEARLY did not know the mu yet posts the score of a match we all saw he didn't know.

This is not a knock on Theo, he is an amazing player. However, unless I can do it myself I don't give a score in my personal mu until I play at least 500 or more games vs many, many, MANY players in just ONE mu.

Just because I lose to a Scorpion player does not mean I can't think its heavily in Aquaman's favor. I figured out ways for Aquaman to handle that matchup ever since and I have no problem admitting I was outplayed.

 

[Tom Brady]

I really should just keep my mouth shut about this character.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I still think Zatanna loses 3-7, he has everything to annoy us, like real talk

Also i agree with WW being 5-5, even tho WW has to work harder for this 5-5 than him.

Hawkgirl 5-5 IMO

 

[deg222]

I still feel it's 7-3 vs Zatanna

Maybe it's easier offline.

It is. FtD and B2 are just op online.

 

[Big Pampering]

Just because I lose to a Scorpion player does not mean I can't think its heavily in Aquaman's favor. I figured out ways for Aquaman to handle that matchup ever since and I have no problem admitting I was outplayed.

why didnt you bust out aquaman at nec?

 

[AK elitegoomba]

It is. FtD and B2 are just op online.

god aquaman b2 online lol. might as well be batgirl

 

[DevilMaySpy]

why didnt you bust out aquaman at nec?

He used Aquaman on ForeverKing.

 

[RIF]

I really should just keep my mouth shut about this character.

Tom,

Everyone respects and listens to your opinion on the game and this character. Please stop playing the MU pariah and offer your opinion. Thank you.