Poll: Tournament Play + 3 Character Variation Locking

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Variation lock.

Someone being able to counter-pick after barely wining a match would be anti-hype as a spectator and annoying as a player.

If the match was barely won why would you change characters...... Anyway I say we all know character lock is definitely set, but variations give us hope that we won't have to play Kano vs kenshi, similarly to any other games with functions you can select for your character if the opponent chooses a new character you get the option of choosing a new super art/ultra/version don't make up your mind before you play the sexy piece of ass that this game is turning out to be.


What we should be asking is if they are using a entirely new from scratch engine because mks/injs engine needs Desperate repairs.

 

[Salad Petresky]

I agree with all that you are saying, but I'm not entirely sure which one you are for.

Variation lock seems like the logical way to play, but if SF4 allows for switching ultras (with some caveat) I don't see a problem.

If player A wins, and player B chooses to make a change, then it might be fine for player A to also make a change (only to their variation) as long as they choose first. Player B can still counter pick; they will still technically have the advantage.

If that caveat isn't in place then variation lock is a must. If it is then is say just character lock.

The thing is, switching an ultra does not change the way how a character is fundamentally played. Say ryu switches ultra, he still plays the same. Ken switches ultra, he still plays the same. Akuma switches ultra, he still mostly plays the same. In the case such as sub zero, an ice clone subzero is wayyyy different than hammer subzero and this changes how the character is played completely. Just like how in marvel you CANNOT change your assists if you win because the assists change how the game is played completely

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I don't think you should have variation lock at all...and especially at this point... I think we need to stop being so obsessed with rules like this....so early when the game is far away from release......

Yep. Gonna buy you a drink.

 

[aldazo]

Excellent topic! I think we need Character lock instead of variation lock, that way we can see the rising of chacater loyalists and specialists and avoid those painfully match ups like J. Cage vs Kenshi. We saw that nightmare at the last UFGT. In the above match up for example, after J.Cage win a match it was obvios Kenshi was going to destroy him the next match and that could happen again, this time in MK X, if people stick with variation locks instead of character locks.

 

[VenomX-90]

Kinda hard to tell, Its like ppl changing the y a b thing before they choose the character in UMVC3 the projectiles are lil different in assist and any little thing can change the gameplay.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

The thing is, switching an ultra does not change the way how a character is fundamentally played. Say ryu switches ultra, he still plays the same. Ken switches ultra, he still plays the same. Akuma switches ultra, he still mostly plays the same. In the case such as sub zero, an ice clone subzero is wayyyy different than hammer subzero and this changes how the character is played completely. Just like how in marvel you CANNOT change your assists if you win because the assists change how the game is played completely

That is why the winner must to pick first for simple character lock to work. If the winner switches to the ice clone variation, the loser can still counter pick if they want to. Yeah the variations potentially can switch a character up greatly, but it doesn't change the fact that the second player still has the counter picking advantage.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I thought you were able to change ultras in SF? I must be mistaken

Yea I was pretty sure you can change Ultras but you have to choose it before your opponent

 

[callMEcrazy]

To me, character lock is neither here nor there. If you want to prevent counter picks just lock the whole damn thing (variation lock). Otherwise no need to lock anything at all.

If styles are very different from one another, which seems to be the case, there's no point in trying to keep the 3 styles of a character locked together.

 

[ForeverKing]

Ultra Street Fighter 4 on XBOX 360. Ceo Rules 2014

• Game Settings:Versus Mode, 99 seconds, 2/3 rounds 2/3 Games, Edition Select OFF, No Handicap
• All Matches are 2/3 including Winners and Losers Finals, Grand Finals are 3/5
• Winner may change Ultra(Only if opponent changes characters), but has to pick ultra first after loser picks character
• If Final Match to Decide the outcome of a match ends in a Draw with both players being awarded a win then the match must be replayed

Im not sure what you are talking about, maybe you should do some research before posting. Of course, winner can not change unless the loser also changes. If this is the case then MK shouldnt be able to change considering 2-3 differences in special can make a whole different character, an ultry doesnt change how characters are fundamentally played (ryu, akuma, ken would all play the same), (subzero with ice clone and without ice clone change the game COMPLETELY)

Don't mind Tetra, he doesn't usually know what he's talking about

 

[Decay]

The character still has the same normals albeit a few combo changes and specials. I think changing variation would be be fine but what would be awesome is instead of hovering over the icon to choose variation, it gives you an option like hit a to choose variation 1, b for variation 2 and x for variation 3 (basically hidden from view of opponent). That way you can switch variation but no one knows what you choose and the opponent might have switched variations as well without you knowing and counter picking

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Whichever way screws M2Dave over the most is what I vote for.

 

[Immortal Kombat]

If we play winner is character locked now then its my opinion that character and stance should be consideres the same thing. What if changing stances dramatically changes a matchup number? You would essentially be letting the winner of the last round have an advantage over you. Now, obviously we dont know jack shit yet so it might not be a big deal at all but..i just really dont wanna see people setting something like this in stone before they have even played a demo.

 

[Salad Petresky]

That is why the winner must to pick first for simple character lock to work. If the winner switches to the ice clone variation, the loser can still counter pick if they want to. Yeah the variations potentially can switch a character up greatly, but it doesn't change the fact that the second player still has the counter picking advantage.

If you say that then might as well let the winner switch characters if the loser switches, but the winner has to pick first..... The idea is absurd. The point of switching is to allow the loser to counter the pick the character they just play and offplaying the pattern of that character. If we allow variations to be picked, the loser has to adjust to a different character variation and the winner adjustment to the new character that is picked and thats not the point of switching when losing.

 

[haketh]

Do it like Melty Blood and SamSho IV, you win and someone goes to character select you can change style.

 

[Brutal Chimney]

the concept of even locking a character seems retarded to me, purposely setting it up so the winner is at a disadvantage via counter pick is just cheap

 

[Ninj]

If we play winner is character locked now then its my opinion that character and stance should be consideres the same thing. What if changing stances dramatically changes a matchup number? You would essentially be letting the winner of the last round have an advantage over you. Now, obviously we dont know jack shit yet so it might not be a big deal at all but..i just really dont wanna see people setting something like this in stone before they have even played a demo.

I'm not looking for a decision to be made, only a discussion to be had. We can't make a decision based on fact yet, but we can talk through as a community what, in theory, would be best if certain things are true.

 

[Ninj]

the concept of even locking a character seems retarded to me, purposely setting it up so the winner is at a disadvantage via counter pick is just cheap

Thanks for the opinion. Counterpicking / character locks for the winner is common practice in tournament play so some kind of lock will most likely be in place, but we can do it intelligently if we think it through.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Variation lock is the way to go.

 

[haketh]

Variation lock is the way to go.

I don't know about that, compare it to games like Melty or Arcana Heart where a shitton more changes from how you can burst, guard cancelling, movement, meter gain and Arcana/Moon switching was allowed. Here it just looks likea few specials are added and that's it, no changes to movement or systems it seems, I say character lock witht he ability to switch styles ONLY IF the loser switches character.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I don't know about that, compare it to games like Melty or Arcana Heart where a shitton more changes from how you can burst, guard cancelling, movement, meter gain and Arcana/Moon switching was allowed. Here it just looks likea few specials are added and that's it, no changes to movement or systems it seems, I say character lock witht he ability to switch styles ONLY IF the loser switches character.

You're not seen the big stuffs here.

Each variations even with the small adds a complete different character, inferno Scorpion and Hellfire scorpion have some big differces so does Ninjutsu, the play style is not the same.

 

[Rabbit]

If the match was barely won why would you change characters......

Why wouldn't you pick a different style if you had a hard time beating your current opponent?

"The character I'm playing against is weak against zoning and I picked the melee version. Better pick the melee version again and hope I can scrape by another win."

 

[CD jr]

Winner of match needs to stay with same type of class.

 

[Euphoric]

I don't know why this is hard to figure out, just think of each variation as it's own character. Generally loser can pick character or stage, loser can change variation of current character or pick a brand new character, makes sense to me. Winner stays locked in character/variation.

 

[haketh]

You're not seen the big stuffs here.

Each variations even with the small adds a complete different character, inferno Scorpion and Hellfire scorpion have some big differces so does Ninjutsu, the play style is not the same.

It doesn't change as much as Melty or Arcana though from what we know so far and I doubt it will, I see no reason to lock in variation.

Winner of match needs to stay with same type of class.

Reasons why when we've seen games with a similiar mechanic allow switching?

 

[aldazo]

... I say character lock witht he ability to switch styles ONLY IF the loser switches character.

I agree, so the loser can have some sort of advantage by choosing a variation to counterpick.