Poll: Tournament Play + 3 Character Variation Locking

[Soulful Nigma]

For me, both ways could work.

With Variation lock the loser gets to try to overcome what just beat him/her. We already do this in many fighting games and it works.

If we end up doing character lock it has to be done right. Imo it should be 2/3 with the option to switch variations first if the loser goes to switch characters/variation. there are games that do this as well and it works.

Im thinking character lock at least in the beginning to see how it is for MK. Really though either way would be fine.

 

[Ilthuain]

But there's a point in showing how other games with similar mechanics have handled it as this kind of thing isn't exactly new. As I have previously stated, Arcana Heart and Melty Blood, both of which have similar options (arcanas and moon phases) both allow the sub-option. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Last Blade 2 did not allow for the winner to select from Power/Speed based on how broken the game and some options were.

Oh yeah, I agree with discussing how other games do it, especially because it shows variation and the other options that have been explored. The FGC can be very myopic sometimes and forget that there are other games out there. For example, in the one SamSho4 tournament I played in, you could swap slash/bust as winner, and that worked out well enough.

 

[aldazo]

Why have any sort of lock. Why don't players hide their character select cursor and pick who they want. Start the match on a random map. Then the loser gets to pick if he/she wants to go to character select again where each person can hide their cursor and select who they want. Loser still gets a slight advantage in having an option to rematch or repick but doesn't get to dictate a direct counter pick to the winners first character selection.

Why are people so adamant about giving the loser of the first match any sort of advantage (like counter picking) anyways?

This is the best option imo, and to answer your question I think THTB already esplained it: "Character lock stems from the arcades and arcade mode in console versions, where you are locked into your character." So it seems there isn't a valid reason except it is a tradition.
EDIT: d3v already answered it: "It prevents the loser from getting counter picked while at the same time giving them a chance to adapt and switch up. While it is basically throwing the loser a bone, it does allow for more interesting matches and at times, unorthodox character picks".
So I guess loser counterpicks so he doesn't get counterpicked??? But still I think hidden cursors is the best option, fair and square.

 

[cyke_out]

Counter picking is not an auto win. Just because the most recent theory of the match up states the match is lopsided, doesn't mean shit if you can't play the advantaged character as well as your main. But it is an option for the loser if he decides to risk it.

And it's not about giving out handicaps for the winner but evening the playing field. Think about a well known tournament player facing a very skilled but not scouted unknown. At the start of the set the well known player goes to his well known main while the unknown has the advantage of being able to counter pick from the very start. Isn't it fair then that if the well known loses the first game, he too should be allowed to counter as well?

 

[aldazo]

whenever any actual compeditive sport does that they get so much hell its not even funny so why in the hell is that accepted in the FGC

But in NFL the teams that are in the bottom have the first posts in the draw to pick new players, I guess we can call it a counterpick? But still in the FGC counterpick can give too much of an advantage so I prefer the hidden cursor, blind select or whatever you wanna call it, so I agree with that.

 

[d3v]

As I stated, counter picking on the second match risks getting yourself counter picked in the 3rd, especially if you move away from your main to a pocket character. It's not just a braindead, insta-win choice. Character selection, like every other decision you make in a match is a tactical decision.

EDIT: Actually, this also applies to the start of a set as well, you can try for a counter pick, but you risk getting locked in that character and getting counter picked moving forward.

 

[OnlineRon91]

1. Winner may change their variation only if the loser selects a new character.
2. Winner must select their variation before loser selects their variation.

This is the most flexible system you can have in terms of fairness for both players.

The loser has the character and a variation advantage since they may character and variation counter-pick.

The winner has a variation option to mitigate character counter-picking.

 

[GGA Wafflez]

no variation lock would make counter picking irrelevant i feel

 

[Ninj]

no variation lock would make counter picking irrelevant i feel

Is that a bad thing? If so, what makes couterpicking good for fighting games?

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

Winner can change variation if loser is changing the character or stage.

NOO WTF?

Listen guys picking a variation is like selecting a new character...

If you win you're variation lock no matter what.

If you lose you can chose another character or variation.

If you let winner pick variation that would be dumb because you're basically letting him counterpick.

Variation lock please.

 

[9_Lives]

So far I feel variation lock, but it really depends on how significantly the change in variation impacts the matchup. If the variation affects the matchup to the point where you can just shift between the three with your characters to counterpick the whole cast, then the winner will always be at an advantage pokemon style. Otherwise, I agree with what people are saying in terms of the comparison to switching ultras to sf.

That being said, I think the variations will matter because it adds special moves/normals that will most likely totally change the way the character is played. Since a lot remains to be seen, I don't think we should make a full on tourney impacting decision yet on this subject.

 

[haketh]

NOO WTF?

Listen guys picking a variation is like selecting a new character...

If you win you're variation lock no matter what.

If you lose you can chose another character or variation.

If you let winner pick variation that would be dumb because you're basically letting him counterpick.

Variation lock please.

It's to early to make this proclamation, and even then, games that have had similiar mechanics that change a ton more than what we've seen in MKX allow the winner to switch.

 

[Colares]

There's no point in having this discussion so early and without 100% sure of everything variations affects

 

[Cool_Prizes]

I say variation lock as the whole point of the loser repicking is to counterpick the winner. If the winner can then counterpick the counterpick with another variation, that completely does away with the point of selecting a new character for the loser.

It'd be like a JC player losing to Sub and then going to character select and choosing kitana and then the Sub just chooses KL or someone. Oh you lost, here have another disadvantage MU! (KL being at advantage to Kitana may not be true, I have no idea, just an example)

THANK YOU!

 

[legion666]

NOO WTF?

Listen guys picking a variation is like selecting a new character...

If you win you're variation lock no matter what.

If you lose you can chose another character or variation.

If you let winner pick variation that would be dumb because you're basically letting him counterpick.

Variation lock please.

Everyone understands that, but that actually adds layers to what a winner can do, not just wait to get counter picked, but adjust on the fly. we will probably have a hidden select so the mind games with character lock will be unreal))))and with variation lock it is going to be a boring ABC counter picking every match.