Player 1 has host advantage

[Pig Of The Hut]

lol this thread still open?

That sig = pure Yay

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Surprised MKU haven't copied and pasted this thread yet on their site like they have with every other TYM thread.

True LOL

 

[gdf]

lol this thread still open?

seconded

 

[greeneless]

Go back through the history of this game and find me a moment where someone losing a trade cost them a match/tournament/mlg$$$ and its game breaking. Other than that its just annoying.

Theres no way to "abuse" this by picking p1, you might think you are getting the upper hand but in reality its never going to come down to a just frame trade in the last second of the last round, meaning only player 1 could win.

Im sure i wasnt the only one who read this and realised how little it matters, theres just too many people who love to "care" far too much.

If johnny cage wins an air to air jump punch trade he could potentially take 100% of your health and come back from the dead if you don't have meter to break his pressure.

 

[smokey]

If johnny cage wins an air to air jump punch trade he could potentially take 100% of your health and come back from the dead if you don't have meter to break his pressure.

If you jumped towards cage in any situation youre probably doing it wrong, but this doesnt come down to that.

In most situations it will come down to who pushed the button first. Iterations of 1/60th seconds are pretty had to determine with the human eye, but il be damned if people dont start pointing out all the times where it was DEFINITELY host advantage, and not just split second timing....

 

[GNG Iniquity]

If johnny cage wins an air to air jump punch trade he could potentially take 100% of your health and come back from the dead if you don't have meter to break his pressure.

Quan Chi and Scorp, too. It's a bigger deal than people make it out to be. Wonder if Cyrax can net you into a 100% reset off a JIP...

 

[Hitoshura]

oh yeah? what games has he programmed? probably not mortal kombat

Unfortunately hes a good programmer just never got a job b/c he knows NO ONE in the field and for people to get a job no a days means you have to know people. I trust him b/c he went to school and learned this stuff.

If hes wrong then hes wrong. I'm just quoting him on this.

Wait, youre friend said random priority that then alternates with frame number is memory intensive? If thats what he thinks i can't believe. he does it professionally

Its not random. It alternates by frame who wins according to NRS. Example if the trade starts then frame 1 player 1 wins then frame 2 player 2 wins.

In other words it has to calculate each single frame every time a jab or move is thrown out to see if there is somehow going to be a trade. Unless they have ir programmed by even and odd #'s in which case doesnt have to count each frame just whether its even or odd which isnt so bad but idk how programming works.

Also take in the fact i said it "MIGHT" so hes not saying that is the reason.

 

[Prinz]

If you jumped towards cage in any situation youre probably doing it wrong, but this doesnt come down to that.

In most situations it will come down to who pushed the button first. Iterations of 1/60th seconds are pretty had to determine with the human eye, but il be damned if people dont start pointing out all the times where it was DEFINITELY host advantage, and not just split second timing....

It'll always be host advantage from now on. Like the input bug, someone doesn't get the special move they wanted: "Oh, the damn input bug". Everybody knows special have nothing to do with the input bug, yet ignorants say it on stream

 

[smokey]

Okay so it would take an immense amount of luck for two people to push the buttons at the same time, resulting in a just frame trade. There is also no realistic way of checking whether or not you did.

To say if you jumped at johnny cage, and both pushed punch at the EXACT frame, down to the 1/60th of a second, and he was player 1, you lose the match, is beyond retarded, and you very much need to have your brain examined.

 

[Prinz]

Okay so it would take an immense amount of luck for two people to push the buttons at the same time, resulting in a just frame trade. There is also no realistic way of checking whether or not you did.

To say if you jumped at johnny cage, and both pushed punch at the EXACT frame, down to the 1/60th of a second, and he was player 1, you lose the match, is beyond retarded, and you very much need to have your brain examined.

This yes, but say he does 11f1 and he's +3, which means he can d1 you for free or beat your d3 and be at +10

 

[smokey]

This yes, but say he does 11f1 and he's +3, which means he can d1 you for free or beat your d3 and be at +10

If hes at +3 then his d3 becomes like 4 frames, you couldnt beat it with a d3 if you tried, i dont understand this example....

 

[Prinz]

If hes at +3 then his d3 becomes like 4 frames, you couldnt beat it with a d3 if you tried, i dont understand this example....

Ooops, I meant to say f3 instead of d1.

 

[Purple Haze]

Okay so it would take an immense amount of luck for two people to push the buttons at the same time, resulting in a just frame trade. There is also no realistic way of checking whether or not you did.

To say if you jumped at johnny cage, and both pushed punch at the EXACT frame, down to the 1/60th of a second, and he was player 1, you lose the match, is beyond retarded, and you very much need to have your brain examined.

According to Hanzo, P1 has advantage even if P2 presses first.

(From video text - First 3 kicks are pressed SIMULTANEOUSLY, last 3 kicks were DELAYING P1 button press)

 

[Hitoshura]

Okay so it would take an immense amount of luck for two people to push the buttons at the same time, resulting in a just frame trade. There is also no realistic way of checking whether or not you did.

To say if you jumped at johnny cage, and both pushed punch at the EXACT frame, down to the 1/60th of a second, and he was player 1, you lose the match, is beyond retarded, and you very much need to have your brain examined.

Agreed but tbh this happens in any game. You don't know how many times ive seen this in Guilty Gear. Theres a simple solution if we were to solve this.

Jabs, njp, or physical special moves should clash. No damage taken and it leaves the players in a position were nothing happens and they continue the fight. This happens in a lot of fighters and should be implemented in MK10. For now if they try to fix this it could cause more problems if done hastily.

Also just want to point out just b/c the situation is high unlikely doesn't mean it wont happen. Same goes with infinite block strings like kabals 2 nmdc xN. Even if its a 1 frame link doesn't mean someone can't master that and use it in the meta. SF basic links are 1-2 frame links and sf players get it every time. Once you get the rhythm down then it can be simple to do.

Also I want to point out the smoke glitch. Not the smoke ball but the shake glitch that was able to be done on will. This seems highly unlikely but if they can manipulate that then they can find a way to manipulate this njp trade situation.

...just a thought.

 

[smokey]

According to Hanzo, P1 has advantage even if P2 presses first.

(From video text - First 3 kicks are pressed SIMULTANEOUSLY, last 3 kicks were DELAYING P1 button press)

Unless this was tool assisted i would like you to post me the video of him counting to 1 in 1/60ths of a second, i know this is an issue thats striking loads of people deeply but really, if you want to rely on something like this atleast dont tell me he did this by hand...

Prinzmetal Im still not understanding you, if 11f1 has +3 then you cant do anything because of spacing and the properties of f3. If you just block the f3 you are able to poke out.

 

[Prinz]

...Im still not understanding you...

I think i need a break...

 

[Ninj]

I stopped reading at page 26 so I apologize if this has been questioned - is Advantage tied to first hit?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2

 

[smokey]

Agreed but tbh this happens in any game. You don't know how many times ive seen this in Guilty Gear. Theres a simple solution if we were to solve this.

Jabs, njp, or physical special moves should clash. No damage taken and it leaves the players in a position were nothing happens and they continue the fight. This happens in a lot of fighters and should be implemented in MK10. For now if they try to fix this it could cause more problems if done hastily.

Also just want to point out just b/c the situation is high unlikely doesn't mean it wont happen. Same goes with infinite block strings like kabals 2 nmdc xN. Even if its a 1 frame link doesn't mean someone can't master that and use it in the meta. SF basic links are 1-2 frame links and sf players get it every time. Once you get the rhythm down then it can be simple to do.

Also I want to point out the smoke glitch. Not the smoke ball but the shake glitch that was able to be done on will. This seems highly unlikely but if they can manipulate that then they can find a way to manipulate this njp trade situation.

...just a thought.

Those examples are very independant of pushing an attack on the same 60th of a second as your opponent and being able to prove that they didnt just push it even as little as 1 frame faster.

I can manipulate the smoke glitch, its hard but with enough practice i could probably do it on request in a tournament setting easily. I wont, because its game breaking.

If you and your opponent consistantly "host trade" attacks on the same frame in every situation and can prove that it is happening i will stop ranting, but thats not going to happen so people need to just stop whining about every little thing that pops up today, and enjoy it just as much as you did yesterday before it mattered.

 

[smokey]

I think i need a break...

No i really just do not see what the issue is. If you are convinced that the reason you cant poke out of 11f1~f3 is because of host advantage i really have nothing else to say. Theres a risk in poking out, hell in this game there are interruptable gaps in strings which you could effectively exploit, but because the timing is so strict it is rarely worth trying because of the risk. when it comes down to just frames there really is no middle ground, it either was or it wasnt, and when you can find me a way of proving with every button input what frame it was pushed and do it for every tournament match, its not even worth caring about.

 

[Somberness]

I stopped reading at page 26 so I apologize if this has been questioned - is Advantage tied to first hit?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2

In one of the tests I did in vs. the 2nd player got the first hit but the first player won all the trades.

 

[Purple Haze]

Unless this was tool assisted i would like you to post me the video of him counting to 1 in 1/60ths of a second, i know this is an issue thats striking loads of people deeply but really, if you want to rely on something like this atleast dont tell me he did this by hand...

What's your point? You can see with the naked eye player 2 going first and player 1 still winning the trade.

 

[smokey]

What's your point? You can see with the naked eye player 2 going first and player 1 still winning the trade.

I just watched it and i see player 2 whiffing a kick and a few frames later player 1 kicks his outstretched leg.

3d hitboxes/whiffpunishing arent glitches/bugs. sorry.

 

[Purple Haze]

I just watched it and i see player 2 whiffing a kick and a few frames later player 1 kicks his outstretched leg.

3d hitboxes/whiffpunishing arent glitches/bugs. sorry.

I think you're seeing what you want to see. The evidence is pretty clear that player one has some sort of advantage.

 

[greeneless]

I think you're seeing what you want to see. The evidence is pretty clear that player one has some sort of advantage.

This. This discussion should be over, but some people are thick headed. I agree that both players attacks becoming active on the same frame is rare, but if it didn't happen then no fighting game would have trades. I would like to see some conclusive evidence through frame by frame tests, but thus far I can't discount Hanzo. It is possible that this advantage is not exclusive to that 1/60th of a second.

 

[smokey]

I think you're seeing what you want to see. The evidence is pretty clear that player one has some sort of advantage.

But the player 2 kick whiffed, then player 1's kick whiff punished it when the hitboxes collide. In the first few examples it might look as if player 1 has the advantage but without tool assists you wont know how down to the frame this is. I trust somberness' with this but that was tested in a setup environment and most likely captured at 60fps and analysed frame by frame to come to the conclusion that he did, and again is nothing to do with my argument of this not being something to "break" a match. It might be annoying when you consider you MIGHT have just lost a trade because of a mechanic, but when its down to just frame, you arent going to win me over by blaming the fact you were player 2.