General/Other - Mileena Piercing vs Ravenous vs Ethereal : The Breakdown

[YoloRoll1stHit]

B12 being special cancellable isn't specific to ravenous. Why would you try and poke or throw after B12 in piercing when she can cancel it into anything?

Because all options she has after B12 is risky in piercing. If people block piercing B12 they all know Mileena's not gonna do anything after. And committing low sai ex roll yolo telekick is a good way to suicide.

I am so sick of the whole "you need to use her as a footsie and wiff punisher character she's totally fine"

No Mileena main ever said that. We are all demanding acceptable buffs. And this thread is about "which variation do you choose and let's talk about the pros/cons", not "Mileena is not bottom tier, level up and stop crying"

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I understand just what you mean--it does make her 50/50 game scary. However, it actually gives her something relatively safe to work with versus ALWAYS having to take a risk to open someone up. I do see your point, though. I didn't put much thought behind what a low roll would constitute across the board. I just think given the move's context for what it is (a move that hits your feet), low makes sense.

It's always surprised me that the majority of MKX players wouldn't mind her roll being counted as a low--it's always Mileena players themselves who disagree with it. By the same token though, I don't want tier whores jumping on the Mileena bandwagon. I kinda like her being labeled a "bottom" character. ;P

So we can all agree on this then for potential buffs, low roll withstanding?
-Slightly faster F3 (also counted as an overhead on a set frame once it starts up).
-Slightly faster regular fades (Ethereal).
-Fixed hit box on F12 (Piercing).
-Slightly larger health gain off Quick Taste (Ravenous).
-Faster normals (any buffs here are welcomed).
-Better backdash.

EDIT: Talking on the EX Roll--I have to agree with GAB on that. Better options available unless of course you're using a mix up or trying to escape corner pressure. I tend to stick with EX Telekick or U3 cancel in my combos if I'm going to burn meter. EX Roll just doesn't seem that rewarding in combos to me. Speaking of which, I'm sad we don't see U3 cancel too often.

This... all day. I like milly being labeled on the bottom. I have been told numerous times that my mileena is scary. People just see these stupid tier lists (ALL are garbage btw even 3 years after release. Tier lists are a gimmick to me) and jump on whoever is top 5 and say everyone under top 5 is bad.

Keep Mileena on the bottom. Cream always rises to the top!

Also, she is not a mindless character. So I think people label her bad cause they have to think in order to use her.

 

[Baconlord]

She needs her regular fades to not have 50 billion startup frames. Keep the recovery the same, but make the startup much quicker so I can utilize them in the neutral for run away. It's hard to encorporate them to dodge projectiles unless you are full screen due to the slow as hell startup.

Her Ex Fades are perfect, and I don't expect her regular ones to be like that, but they do need to be a little faster to make them more useful.

I agree, the only reason I ever use regular fade is if I want more space and do f12 fade away on knockdown to build meter but thats kind of gimmick. It especially sucks because you need to do 10 fade aways to get the brutality and there's no way in hell I'm throwing that move out 10 times.

 

[Crimea]

i really think her f1 2+4 1+3 should be buffed. Or maybe they forgot about that move like many Mileena players)

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

I do think there is hope on Sadistic Ways. Quick Taste had the same whiff problem that was thankfully corrected.

It's just a matter of NRS being aware of it. Hopefully someone there is a Mileena fan and stalks her board here.

I love Ravenous, but Piercing would be hard to pass up with a fixed hit box on that, and the beauty that is low sai. Just sayin'.

 

[Sultani]

Because all options she has after B12 is risky in piercing. If people block piercing B12 they all know Mileena's not gonna do anything after. And committing low sai ex roll yolo telekick is a good way to suicide.

No Mileena main ever said that. We are all demanding acceptable buffs. And this thread is about "which variation do you choose and let's talk about the pros/cons", not "Mileena is not bottom tier, level up and stop crying"

point taken. I get pretty worked up and just ranting when I talk about Mileena. lol.

But I didn't say Mileena mains say that.

 

[Endding]

"Mileena is not bottom tier, level up and stop crying"

 

[Sultani]

It's just really frustrating because she doesn't need a whole lot to be miles better than she is.

Giving her the mk9 D4 would at least be consistent with her playstyle.

It should be pretty clear now that characters don't need to have 50/50s or ambiguous setups to be great. Look at Tempest Lao. He has no low starters. He's good because his mid range normals and spacing control are great, his pokes are fast enough, his ranged mids can be made safe, and hat spin can grant block advantage.

If mileena had some of the wiffing problems addressed, a proper adjustment to TK air sai's consistency, some slightly faster normals and pokes, and maybe even a little block advantage on a special (maybe EX regular sai), she would be really good.

hell, I'd be happy with just one of those things. Cream does rise to the top.... (looks at characters used in all top 8 at majors)

 

[Baconlord]

It's just really frustrating because she doesn't need a whole lot to be miles better than she is.

Giving her the mk9 D4 would at least be consistent with her playstyle.

It should be pretty clear now that characters don't need to have 50/50s or ambiguous setups to be great. Look at Tempest Lao. He has no low starters. He's good because his mid range normals and spacing control are great, his pokes are fast enough, his ranged mids can be made safe, and hat spin can grant block advantage.

If mileena had some of the wiffing problems addressed, a proper adjustment to TK air sai's consistency, some slightly faster normals and pokes, and maybe even a little block advantage on a special (maybe EX regular sai), she would be really good.

hell, I'd be happy with just one of those things. Cream does rise to the top.... (looks at characters used in all top 8 at majors)

if we get the kitana treatment and get a new down 4 then I will cry tears of joy

 

[Endding]

We really should be able to F12 ~ low pounce

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

if we get the kitana treatment and get a new down 4 then I will cry tears of joy

I may be a select few but I actually like her d4. It creates good space and usually causes the opponent to do two things... block a follow up attack ie b12 low sai or b12 enh roll (which you can take a 5050 or just stay and wait for them) or they jump in on you (which you do an easy NJP to full combo). IF you can guess right on which they do, your offense begins again.

She's very good IF in the right hands.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I understand just what you mean--it does make her 50/50 game scary. However, it actually gives her something relatively safe to work with versus ALWAYS having to take a risk to open someone up. I do see your point, though. I didn't put much thought behind what a low roll would constitute across the board. I just think given the move's context for what it is (a move that hits your feet), low makes sense.

It's always surprised me that the majority of MKX players wouldn't mind her roll being counted as a low--it's always Mileena players themselves who disagree with it. By the same token though, I don't want tier whores jumping on the Mileena bandwagon. I kinda like her being labeled a "bottom" character. ;P

So we can all agree on this then for potential buffs, low roll withstanding?
-Slightly faster F3 (also counted as an overhead on a set frame once it starts up).
-Slightly faster regular fades (Ethereal).
-Fixed hit box on F12 (Piercing).
-Slightly larger health gain off Quick Taste (Ravenous).
-Faster normals (any buffs here are welcomed).
-Better backdash.

EDIT: Talking on the EX Roll--I have to agree with GAB on that. Better options available unless of course you're using a mix up or trying to escape corner pressure. I tend to stick with EX Telekick or U3 cancel in my combos if I'm going to burn meter. EX Roll just doesn't seem that rewarding in combos to me. Speaking of which, I'm sad we don't see U3 cancel too often.

There a two bar 50% corner combo that requires enh telekick and enhanced u3 that I made a long time ago like 2 or 3 weeks after release. It ends in u3 enh b21 2+4.

U3 is hella good in corner but I've whiffed a lot of u3's trying to punish jip or crossover

 

[Sultani]

There a two bar 50% corner combo that requires enh telekick and enhanced u3 that I made a long time ago like 2 or 3 weeks after release. It ends in u3 enh b21 2+4.

U3 is hella good in corner but I've whiffed a lot of u3's trying to punish jip or crossover

EX U3 in the corner is great. Using 2 bars in the corner for an extra 2% though... You can get 48% for one bar.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Listen, it seems that the issue most people are having is not wanting to use unsafe tools in a world with safe pressure. I get it, but you have to look passed the safety to play this character. A move being unsafe doesn't make it bad. Low Sai adds a ton to Piercing's variation, and if you had it in Ethereal or Ravenous, Piercing would become nearly useless, imo. Someone said people will poke/throw her after blocking B12, but she can still jump over you, cancel into a special, or do a delayed EX Roll to blow you up for that. Sure, if they are blocking you get killed, but if they're blocking then they *aren't* poking you/throwing you. EX Roll is a scary thing to face if you never know when it can come out. It also beats a ton of armor attacks since it hits twice.

Cancelling D1/D3/D4 into Low Sai or EX Roll gives her a 50/50 on block while also beating their counter pokes. Yes, it's unsafe if you guessed wrong, but it still puts the option into your opponent's brain. Them holding block = you should be winning.

Trust me, I'm not saying Mileena's secretly top tier or anything. And yeah she needs to get some things, but I'm trying to narrow down what would best help her core issues. Faster normals would be something, but she'd still have range issues. I honestly don't think Mileena is 100% a footsie character. (I will agree that Piercing is a heavily footsie based variation though.) She has tools for any situation, but doesn't truly excel in one thing. I think giving her better block frames helps a ton as she doesn't need to be unsafe on things like F4/F44 and can benefit from being low negative on other stuff like F23.

Fuck it, make 21u4 plus on block. The armor gap is still there to keep it fair.

I may be a select few but I actually like her d4. It creates good space and usually causes the opponent to do two things... block a follow up attack ie b12 low sai or b12 enh roll (which you can take a 5050 or just stay and wait for them) or they jump in on you (which you do an easy NJP to full combo). IF you can guess right on which they do, your offense begins again.

Totally agree about D4. If she had her MK9 D4, B1 would almost never be used outside of punishment in piercing.

But for the record....

She's very good IF in the right hands.

Fuck this argument. Nothing personal, but I hear this all the time, and it's never true. It implies you have to be some magically gifted player who always guesses right. In which case, no one would ever need buffs if this "right hands" guy takes the sticks.

 

[TheGabStandard]

EX U3 in the corner is great. Using 2 bars in the corner for an extra 2% though... You can get 48% for one bar.

Can get 52% for one bar in Piercing

 

[ZeroEffect]

Also Mileena is comically small in this game. Having her stand next to Kano or Kotal Kahn makes them look like her father, lol.

Hard to be a footsie character if you look like a child.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

When I did use mileena, it was piercing. It was her only viable variation on launch. I stopped using her because I didn't like her combo strings, and her F3 overhead was almost useless. Don't know if things are different now. I now find home with quan, Tanya and Jason.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

Was interested in ethereal when she was revealed, saw it was bad so I mained piercing at launch. With ethereal's new buffs I think it's definitely viable, not on par with the other two but decent. Piercing is still my main, but the more I experiment with ethereal the more I discover how ridiculously good ex fade is. However that one move won't carry the whole variation and I still think ethereal is one patch away from being balanced with the others, but it doesn't need to be tbh. There's nothing wrong with having a weak variation.

Piercing is great and I think it's amazing b/c of the better spacing and zoning. Ravenous isn't far from piercing though, it definitely holds on its own. Safe strings and better damage are as good as what piercing can offer. Both variations are so close to being the best, I honestly can't say which one's better.

As for Mileena in general, I think she's ok where she is now, but she's one patch away from being mid tier imo. So it would be great if NRS would consider a few more buffs for her. Nothing huge or in large quantity like the kenshi and kitana treatment, but the little pats on the back like the ones they've been giving her would really help. F3 being quicker is a very touchy thing because of her damage and it being quicker invalidates ex roll and stops making her meter dependent. Changing f3 is a big deal. However changing other areas like her projectiles and movement can potentially make her great. Her air sai having less recovery and being comboable, her sais in general having less recovery and being safe on block (-7), her backdash being faster and/or traveling farther, her tele-kick being slightlly faster and tracking better, her walk speeds sped up significantly. These little things will lend themselves to Mileena's spacing and punsihing game. The one game Mileena's suppose to own but can't because of her mediocre movement and several unsafe strings on block.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

Also Mileena is comically small in this game. Having her stand next to Kano or Kotal Kahn makes them look like her father, lol.

Hard to be a footsie character if you look like a child.

Lol I wish her frame in game matched her actual hitbox, I heard that she's actually one of the larger females. Small hitbox + range would of made Mileena a monster footsies character. Doesn't make sense that her "sister" is a pixie and she's not though.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Her air sai having less recovery and being comboable, her sais in general having less recovery and being safe on block (-7),

-7 isn't safe though. And I think the reason it's not low negative is because that would make it heavily plus on block at a distance.

EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't F44 and High pounce both -7?

 

[Method]

Uggggh man, I would love to see Mileena get some useful plus frames off an EX move. As mentioned earlier, EX normal sai. Spending meter to extend block pressure would be a huge step forward. Fuck 50/50s, we need a frame trap bruh.

 

[ExpiredCodes]

Can get 52% for one bar in Piercing

Could you give me the inputs? I've been doing a 51% combo and I didn't know we found a better one.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Could you give me the inputs? I've been doing a 51% combo and I didn't know we found a better one.

Timing is hard because B212+4 is a bit obnoxious but here you go:

F343 xx TK xx air sai, 2, 2, 123 xx roll, walk back/run, d2, U3MB, B212+4.

There's a video in the recent pages of the Combo Thread with the combo

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

-7 isn't safe though. And I think the reason it's not low negative is because that would make it heavily plus on block at a distance.

EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't F44 and High pounce both -7?

It would be safe enough up close, only a select amount of moves would be able to punish, like with high pounce. I see what you mean about it being even safer full screen. It would be more balanced to just have her ex sai be plus like @Method suggested, but it would kind of suck to give Mileena another move she's restricted to use due to meter management. It would for sure be better than nothing though so I wouldn't mind it that much, it's always good to have options.

 

[ZeroEffect]

It would be safe enough up close, only a select amount of moves would be able to punish, like with high pounce. I see what you mean about it being even safer full screen. It would be more balanced to just have her ex sai be plus like @Method suggested, but it would kind of suck to give Mileena another move she's restricted to use due to meter management. It would for sure be better than nothing though so I wouldn't mind it that much, it's always good to have options.

I'd be fine with it being like -5 or something, but I was just saying that's probably why it isn't 0 or -1 up close.
Telekick being faster would make her highest damage combos much easier to convert. I dunno. I feel like Mileena's best hope is just better across the board block frames. EX Sai can be armored through or ducked in between.