General/Other - Mileena Piercing vs Ravenous vs Ethereal : The Breakdown

[Nu-Skoool]

I was thinking what if they made f2 an overhead, it's already -7 and the sweep ender is -10.

 

[TakeAChance]

Here are honestly all that needs to be fixed.

She is so close to being an excellent character but for some reason is still hindered on a few miscues for her designs IMO. (That's just my opinion).

I know I'm just an online warrior now, but I have been playing fighters for many years now and IMO these need to be addressed. I have either posted about or created threads centered around these before and I have full confidence in Paulo and the NRS team to at least consider some of these. These imo are all that are needed to make Mileena a viable threat while not making her bat shit brain dead.

Piercing:

B21+2+4 = Larger hit box on the (1) in this string to allow for consistent combos after B34 air sai and allow for further corner damage.

Ravenous:

F12~low pounce is now tickable

Ethereal:

Increase startup of regular fade to 5f while recovery remains the same. This means she can't mindlessly spam it, but she has a meterless gtfo option and is allowed to meterbuild anytime the opponent throws a projectile. She has no offensive potential from this unless used from up close (hella risky). Still requires EX fade to get any combo potential due to regular recovery.

Adjust damage on B22 1+3 to increase her combos by 1-2%. Trade off being she can't use B22 1+3 all the time due to the position reversal and will have to resort to the lesser damage 21U4 for her splat ender to remain on the side of her choice.



OMG YOU ROCK NRS:

Make Low Sai universal across all variations. (A man can dream).




Those are all the buffs I think Mileena needs after EXTENSIVE experience in all variations. The frames have been fixed, which was amazing. Now we just need the final move tweaks and she is done.

Because no one else will, and because I really hope these are considered I will tag @colt.

I hope you do look at these and at least contemplate them. I know in the end you will do what you feel is best.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Holy sh8t.

That might be the fairest, most legitimate buff inquiry I have ever seen.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I agree with all of @TakeAChance list, (though I'm fine with Low Sai being Piercing exclusive), but I don't think it'd hurt for some other changes as well.
(21u4 + on block, Better backdash, air sai fix, etc). But whatever. We all have an idealized version of her and how she could be made better. But in the end who's to really say what will end up being fair or not?

I was shocked that they handled EX Fade the way I imagined it to function. So you never know what ideas might end up reaching the ears of NRS.

Anyway, whatever happens with future updates happens.

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

Here are honestly all that needs to be fixed.

She is so close to being an excellent character but for some reason is still hindered on a few miscues for her designs IMO. (That's just my opinion).

I know I'm just an online warrior now, but I have been playing fighters for many years now and IMO these need to be addressed. I have either posted about or created threads centered around these before and I have full confidence in Paulo and the NRS team to at least consider some of these. These imo are all that are needed to make Mileena a viable threat while not making her bat shit brain dead.

Piercing:

B21+2+4 = Larger hit box on the (1) in this string to allow for consistent combos after B34 air sai and allow for further corner damage.

Ravenous:

F12~low pounce is now tickable

Ethereal:

Increase startup of regular fade to 5f while recovery remains the same. This means she can't mindlessly spam it, but she has a meterless gtfo option and is allowed to meterbuild anytime the opponent throws a projectile. She has no offensive potential from this unless used from up close (hella risky). Still requires EX fade to get any combo potential due to regular recovery.

Adjust damage on B22 1+3 to increase her combos by 1-2%. Trade off being if she can't use B22 1+3 all the time due to the position reversal and will have to resort to the lessor damage 21U4 for her splat enders to remain on the side of her choice..



OMG YOU ROCK NRS:

Make Low Sai universal across all variations. (A man can dream).




Those are all the buffs I think Mileena needs after EXTENSIVE experience in all variations. The frames have been fixed, which was amazing. Now we just need the final move tweaks and she is done.

Because no one else will, and because I really hope these are considered I will tag @colt.

I hope you do look at these and at least contemplate them. I know in the end you will do what you feel is best.

This is SO much YASSSSSS to contain.

I wholeheartedly support that post my dear.

I was actually practicing around with Piercing a little tonight, and it amazed me how BAD B21 2+4 whiffs sometimes. Meanwhile, B12 1+3 has RIDICULOUSLY good range. It's like a stark contrast or something. I do hope that takes priority to get fixed. That's just....shew. I knew it was bad, but didn't really pay attention to HOW bad it was until I took time to research it.

On a random note, am I the only one who finds a combo like Starter-->roll, B34, air sai, low sai (or EX low sai) to be so fancy looking and badass at the same time? ;P

 

[TakeAChance]

The reality is, we are running out of time. If history is any indication, october will be the final major balance patch for MKX.

While I know that NRS is taking care of Mileena (she has been buffed almost every patch), I would encourage all Mileena mains to tweet/tag/support the buffs above whenever possible. She needs it in every variation.

NRS has fixed her frames. They have shown they care about our empress. Now they just need VERY minor tweaks to make her whole.

Use twitter, TYM, or whatever means you have to get the word out. We aren't asking for brokenness, we are just asking for fixes to the variations.

To illustrate:

Piercing

B21 2+4 is exclusive to piercing. Increasing the hitbox on the (1) portion of this move does not increase the viability of any other variation and only increases piercing as whole by adding a consistent damage increase midscreen and in the corner.

Ravenous

F12~low pounce being tickable gives low pounce a reliable 50/50 outside of 2~low pounce. It allow Ravenous to not only build more meter, but to condition opponents on hit or block with either a 16% low pounce chain or full combo punish for over 35%. Low pounce is punishable via block punish or via guess with a neutral duck. This opens up not only her low pounce put her ex roll tremendously in this variation only. It seperates it from the pack as an offensive juggernaut.

Ethereal

Fade being 5 frame startup compared to the 12f startup of vanish creates an interesting trade off. Regular fades will come out in 5f but have immense recovery. This means that the opponenet will always have the advantage after any non mb fade, but will also ensure mileena has a gtfo reversal and guaranteed meter building tool in a variation that is heavily reliant on meter bulding. Since the recovery would remain the same as now she would have no combo ability off of regular fades. Their uses would be mostly run away and full screen meter building. Ex Fades would still need to be used to extend combos or whiff punish. This creates a situation where Ethereal has the best defensive capabilities of all the variations while still relying on the Ex fade for offense. It truly seperates it from the pack. As it stands, regular fade does not have great startup frames and is hard to use naked in the neutral.

The Mileena forums have never been about crying, but I don't think a single Mileena main would disagree with those buffs. I am not the best Mileena player in the world, but I can say that I can play all three variations competently and have invested tons of time in each. I encourage all of you to make your voices heard not with crys, but with assurance. NRS will continue to support Mileena, and I am sure they have these changes lined up anyways, but a little push doesn't hurt at all

 

[ZeroEffect]

The reality is, we are running out of time. If history is any indication, october will be the final major balance patch for MKX.
Use twitter, TYM, or whatever means you have to get the word out. We aren't asking for brokenness, we are just asking for fixes to the variations.

Other than tagging Colt on posts, how else are players even getting a hold of the right people? Also, I wonder if we should pool all the best suggestions made through the thread and send all the suggestions and see what, if anything, sticks? As I mentioned before, while your list is agreeable, we all have some additional ideas as well.

(low sai across the board for you, 21u4 + and F44 safety for me, backdash for God'sgift88... etc)

 

[Method]

Not to downplay anyone else's contribution, but I'd be interested to hear what @YOMI RM SaltFace thinks regarding potential buffs, fixes, and tweaks.

For the record, I agree with @TakeAChance and his proposed changes. That said, I'd really like to see Mileena's pressure improve (meaning frames still need to improve), considering that's the way the meta is shaping up.

 

[ZeroEffect]

That said, I'd really like to see Mileena's pressure improve (meaning frames still need to improve), considering that's the way the meta is shaping up.

Yes. Exactly.
I'd gladly toss the stand 3 overhead idea for just some better block advantage. Specifically to 21u4 and F44. 50/50s are great and all, but MKX characters thrive off of some type of pressure.

 

[SaltFace NS]

The reality is, we are running out of time. If history is any indication, october will be the final major balance patch for MKX.

While I know that NRS is taking care of Mileena (she has been buffed almost every patch), I would encourage all Mileena mains to tweet/tag/support the buffs above whenever possible. She needs it in every variation.

NRS has fixed her frames. They have shown they care about our empress. Now they just need VERY minor tweaks to make her whole.

Use twitter, TYM, or whatever means you have to get the word out. We aren't asking for brokenness, we are just asking for fixes to the variations.

To illustrate:

Piercing

B21 2+4 is exclusive to piercing. Increasing the hitbox on the (1) portion of this move does not increase the viability of any other variation and only increases piercing as whole by adding a consistent damage increase midscreen and in the corner.

Ravenous

F12~low pounce being tickable gives low pounce a reliable 50/50 outside of 2~low pounce. It allow Ravenous to not only build more meter, but to condition opponents on hit or block with either a 16% low pounce chain or full combo punish for over 35%. Low pounce is punishable via block punish or via guess with a neutral duck. This opens up not only her low pounce put her ex roll tremendously in this variation only. It seperates it from the pack as an offensive juggernaut.

Ethereal

Fade being 5 frame startup compared to the 12f startup of vanish creates an interesting trade off. Regular fades will come out in 5f but have immense recovery. This means that the opponenet will always have the advantage after any non mb fade, but will also ensure mileena has a gtfo reversal and guaranteed meter building tool in a variation that is heavily reliant on meter bulding. Since the recovery would remain the same as now she would have no combo ability off of regular fades. Their uses would be mostly run away and full screen meter building. Ex Fades would still need to be used to extend combos or whiff punish. This creates a situation where Ethereal has the best defensive capabilities of all the variations while still relying on the Ex fade for offense. It truly seperates it from the pack. As it stands, regular fade does not have great startup frames and is hard to use naked in the neutral.

The Mileena forums have never been about crying, but I don't think a single Mileena main would disagree with those buffs. I am not the best Mileena player in the world, but I can say that I can play all three variations competently and have invested tons of time in each. I encourage all of you to make your voices heard not with crys, but with assurance. NRS will continue to support Mileena, and I am sure they have these changes lined up anyways, but a little push doesn't hurt at all

I agree with these changes as well to Mileena. I however would suggest 2 more things. I feel it is unfair that every character (outside of Tanya now) that has a MB Teleport option that attacks has armor on wake up besides Mileena. I can see if my MB Teleport was an attack & safe but it's punishable on whiff & block by anyone. I'd like it to have armor on wake up only.

Next I would like a change to the F3. At 33 Frames it is the slowest overhead normal in the entire game & has the animation of an airborne move but it doesn't consistantly crush low hitting attacks & instead loses to low hitting attacks a majority of the time. I feel it should be sped up to at least 25 frames & be made to consistantly beat low hitting attacks. The final change I think will help out across all variations is to make the end of the F3,4,3 an overhead since both the F3,4,4 & F3,4,3 are super unsafe on block & punishable by everyone.

Besides what I stated I feel @TakeAChance hit the nail on the coffin.

 

[1man3letters]

the tldr version of my opinion on mileenas variations would be piercing>ethereal>ravenous

better backdash and f44 being -5 would be nice, i echo the thoughts said on MB telekick on wakeup also

 

[JerzeyReign]

I'm a piercing Mileena and probably won't venture into the other variations because of sadistic. When using that as an ender I get to stay in my opponents face which allows me to use f12 to break their wake up and possibly start another combo. No other reason than that for me though I wish I had those pounces when they start blocking looking for a roll.

 

[Ninjaguy446]

the tldr version of my opinion on mileenas variations would be piercing>ethereal>ravenous

better backdash and f44 being -5 would be nice, i echo the thoughts said on MB telekick on wakeup also

Can you explain why you have Ethereal in front of Ravenous? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to know your thoughts on those two variations.

 

[ZeroEffect]

@YOMI RM SaltFace
What is the big deal on EX Telekick being armored on wakeup? I've heard this before, and I know other characters have it, but what would this do that EX Roll can't?

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

More damage of a bar starter as a reversal, being uninterrupted by multi-hitting attacks during active frames, and going through meaty projectile setups is what I guess people want from Tele-Drop having armor on wake-up. Honestly if that was the case, wouldn't it be almost the same thing to make it invincible on start-up on a wake-up?

Always kind of wished tele-kick regularly had invincibility frames because it looked kind of dumb how Mileena aesthetically submerges her entire body halfway under ground just to get brought back up by a d1. However later I learned how Mileena's port worked and there's really no way to interrupt her once she's disappeared other than armoring. Only thing I think Tele-kick or Tele-drop would need is to have 2-3 frames cut from start-up and to have better tracking, because this move is completely based on reads or to capitalize on huge whiff mistakes made by the opponent. There are hardly times were I've done tele-kick on reaction to punish something. Sometimes when you get too read happy and throw out a tele-kick too early on a fast move because you don't want it to get blocked, it whiffs and you get punished for making a read like a half second too early. So tracking should def be better, esp if this move leads to a full combo punish on block.

 

[james1926]

I'm surprised with the results on this poll. I think you guys underestimate the power of ex fade.

The option of a safe wakeup with the ability to whiff punish your opponent while being safe is a pretty big deal in this game. Your opponent is forced to respect that wake up option, making Mileena's wake up options on ethereal the best in the game.

The only problem with ethereal is the meter dependency but I think is her top variation (just slightly better that piercing). And with the new b2 the damage is not that lower compared to the other variations (27% of a roll compared to 32% on ravenous - also note that even on ravenous sometimes you should do the 27% combo to get the hard knockdown and frame advantage..meaning the lesser damage on ethereal is not that big of a deal).

And like I said many times, low pounce should be an overhead. Ravenous is right now the weakest variation and this change will give a point to the variation - not needing meter for 50/50s.

 

[Endding]

Was playing some MK9 recently, and was brainstorming ideas.

Since Ravenous is all about aggression I feel it's missing a restand, sure the first sequence of Low Pounce leaves the opposition standing but you can't really do a great deal with it. Since Mileena had a restand bite, I was really shocked to see it not have similar properties in MKX. What if the second sequence of 'Tasty' regenerated health as it does currently and the first sequence left the opponent standing similar to MK9.

You'd be sacrificing some damage + health regeneration, so it wouldn't render the full sequence useless. Thoughts?

 

[Purplerain]

At release I started to use Ravenous as it had the leaping neckbite from mk9 also liked that she had two grabs . Then moved to Piercing as she had a bit more space control with her sais. NRS thank you for low Sai. Each of her variations bring some different to table. Ethereal is becoming a lot better than what it use to be, with another touch could be a real solid variation that could over take the other two in which to use but that is down to preference and debate.

Gimme:

-Roll as a low (perhaps Telekick as an overhead as well). I seriously don't think this makes her OP, given

I agree with this. Out of a choice I would take overhead Telekick as I'm dropping from above blessing their head with the courtesy of your boot. Low Sai throughout all variations would put her on the road becoming solid. @TakeAChance man with the plan

 

[Purplerain]

she is too fair for her bitchy nature. Fuck f3, let's make her f2 overhead! Empress deserves this *devilsmile*

The laugh when she does the low pounce makes me smile everytime

 

[1man3letters]

Can you explain why you have Ethereal in front of Ravenous? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to know your thoughts on those two variations.

i feel the fades are better than what ravenous gives with the heal bites,high/low pounce.
dropping some damage to make a character alot safer (yes its meter dependent) is always worth it in my opinion

ex fade isnt just armored, its invincible so you dont even take a hit of damage when you ex through stuff and it cant be stuffed.
lets her get off the ground/out of corner pressure safer, gives frames traps,and even small things like with f12b4~ex fade/f12ex roll mixup becoming a hitconfirm. that move does sooooooo much work.
the variation is more meter dependent that ravenous thats for sure but i think its worth it

ravenous gets the heal off the bites which and keeps same damage/% or 2 higher that piercing which is good but those pounces....
low pounce is not a "constant" overhead and doesnt work where its most needed to in certain strings where lows would be, its also full combo punishable.
high pounce can be full comboed by good few, poked by into pressure by others.
so outside of there use of combo enders (to which i cant then use the heal) and the fully combo punishable d3/4~low pounce and 21/2~low pounce(even f4~low pounce gets blown up) all the pounces are giving are two more unsafe options to add to mileenas already high list of unsafe things

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Whatever one saltface plays because he knows his bitches

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I agree with these changes as well to Mileena. I however would suggest 2 more things. I feel it is unfair that every character (outside of Tanya now) that has a MB Teleport option that attacks has armor on wake up besides Mileena. I can see if my MB Teleport was an attack & safe but it's punishable on whiff & block by anyone. I'd like it to have armor on wake up only.

Next I would like a change to the F3. At 33 Frames it is the slowest overhead normal in the entire game & has the animation of an airborne move but it doesn't consistantly crush low hitting attacks & instead loses to low hitting attacks a majority of the time. I feel it should be sped up to at least 25 frames & be made to consistantly beat low hitting attacks. The final change I think will help out across all variations is to make the end of the F3,4,3 an overhead since both the F3,4,4 & F3,4,3 are super unsafe on block & punishable by everyone.

Besides what I stated I feel @TakeAChance hit the nail on the coffin.

I can agree on making the last hit of f343 an OH and leaving f344 a low so there is a true mixup.

However I think f3 although it's the slowest overhead in the game needs to remain the same frame wise. She has one of THE fastest OH in the game with enh roll. To keep her fair, this is my opinion.

If she gets too many absurd buffs she will just be tier whored and I personally would hate that because I rarely fight any Milly's and when I do they're not great.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention that f3 needs no frames adjusted. IF they do get adjusted hopefully it's not a crazy amount because all the mindless players will jump on the bandwagon.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Anyway, just thought I'd mention that f3 needs no frames adjusted. IF they do get adjusted hopefully it's not a crazy amount because all the mindless players will jump on the bandwagon.

I still fell like F3 is fine frame wise, However, the best argument for a faster F3, imo, is that if it was faster, you could use it to punish certain moves on block.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I still fell like F3 is fine frame wise, However, the best argument for a faster F3, imo, is that if it was faster, you could use it to punish certain moves on block.

Agreed. It'd be nice to be able to punish with the f3. Maybe not a punish all starter but maybe a 15-20 frame starter. So it can punish SOME things in game or could be really good when used with a full screen run into f343/f344

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

How would F3 be changed to be able to punish? To be a good punish tool (which Mileena already has several fairly quick normals) it would need to be reduced to like 10-20 frames start up. So I'm assuming it would lose its overhead property because a 10-20 frame start-up with its range, mix-up capability, and damage it leads to would be ridiculous. Reducing the frames of F3 to even 25 frames should scale the damage it can get off of the F3,4,3 string. I always thought the last part of the F3,4,3 string should of been an overhead, but if it was, the start-up of F3 should def be the same but the damage would be fine as well. F3,4,3 being an overhead plus having F3 with reduced start up frames would make Mileena a mix-up monster over those 2 buffs. I genuinely believe if that happened she would instantly be high tier. There's just too much that goes into changing F3 to make it balanced. So I think it would be better to just fix Mileena's other areas. But if F3 absolutely needed to be changed I think only either:

F3 with reduced star-up frames and damage scaled on the F3,4,3 and F3,4,4 strings according to how fast F3 was changed to.

or

F3 start up left the same, F3,4,3 and F3,4,4 damage left the same, but F3,4,3 is changed to an overhead on the last part of the string. And maybe change F3's hitbox to consistently evade lows.