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General/Other - Mileena Piercing vs Ravenous vs Ethereal : The Breakdown

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TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
In piercing the only thing I can do consistently is: naked ex roll, njp, B212+4 = 27%. So can I say that Ravenous outdamages Piercing with ex roll?
you can say that. The most damage I ever got from an EX Roll was 29% but the combo isn't worth it in my eyes unless maybe it will win you match.

EX Roll, run cancel, B34 xx air sai, run cancel B121+3, DD2
 

Method

Full Combo Punishable
For me, the "scaling hitbox" of B21 2+4 is what keep me from committing fully to Piercing. That and the F12 whiff issue. As an ender, high/low pounce is far less demanding and therefore consistent, especially online. Ravenous corner combos don't require a run cancel xx ultra unforgiving ender that puckers my butthole every single time.

Which isn't to say you can't master Sadistic Ways, but I (personally) find it far too frustrating.

... but man ... I do miss that low sai ... and the brutality.

Ethereal I just don't know. It's stylish as hell. I can't make it work, but respect to the Ethereal mains keeping that shit on lockdown.
 
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Blonde_Huntress

Edenian Witch <3
F3 is dependent how fast you want it to be. To be honest if I personally wanted it buffed I would want it maybe at most 25f start up (like Scorpions F4) so the damage output stays the same. Any faster than that then certain properties like damage and block advantage would have to change.

I agree with all the others except Roll being a low. I cannot agree with that as that would be too OP. Firstly as an opponent if he/she knocks Mileena down while she has meter the reward for knocking Mileena down is a 50/50 guess of whether Mileena will wake up low or OH roll knowing that guessing wrong will cost that person close to 30% damage into Mileena's own oki.

Secondly as soon as she has meter, every string and most normals that an opponent blocks becomes guess city. As an example you knock someone down and you do F1. F1 crushes armour so you can't wake up. If blocked then you can do the following:

F1 xx Roll (low) or EX Roll (OH)
F12 xx Roll or EX Roll
F12B4 xx Roll or EX Roll
F14 xx Roll or EX Roll
F143

The amount of guessing of whether rolls are coming or the string will continue just is too much for me. All those options from a blocked F1 is pretty crazy. I do understand people have crazy BS in this game but that buff would make Mileena monstrous in my eyes as I don't think any character can turn every string into a 50/50 essentially at all times.
I understand just what you mean--it does make her 50/50 game scary. However, it actually gives her something relatively safe to work with versus ALWAYS having to take a risk to open someone up. I do see your point, though. I didn't put much thought behind what a low roll would constitute across the board. I just think given the move's context for what it is (a move that hits your feet), low makes sense.

It's always surprised me that the majority of MKX players wouldn't mind her roll being counted as a low--it's always Mileena players themselves who disagree with it. By the same token though, I don't want tier whores jumping on the Mileena bandwagon. I kinda like her being labeled a "bottom" character. ;P

So we can all agree on this then for potential buffs, low roll withstanding?
-Slightly faster F3 (also counted as an overhead on a set frame once it starts up).
-Slightly faster regular fades (Ethereal).
-Fixed hit box on F12 (Piercing).
-Slightly larger health gain off Quick Taste (Ravenous).
-Faster normals (any buffs here are welcomed).
-Better backdash.

EDIT: Talking on the EX Roll--I have to agree with GAB on that. Better options available unless of course you're using a mix up or trying to escape corner pressure. I tend to stick with EX Telekick or U3 cancel in my combos if I'm going to burn meter. EX Roll just doesn't seem that rewarding in combos to me. Speaking of which, I'm sad we don't see U3 cancel too often.
 
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TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
I understand just what you mean--it does make her 50/50 game scary. However, it actually gives her something relatively safe to work with versus ALWAYS having to take a risk to open someone up. I do see your point, though. I didn't put much thought behind what a low roll would constitute across the board. I just think given the move's context for what it is (a move that hits your feet), low makes sense.

It's always surprised me that the majority of MKX players wouldn't mind her roll being counted as a low--it's always Mileena players themselves who disagree with it. By the same token though, I don't want tier whores jumping on the Mileena bandwagon. I kinda like her being labeled a "bottom" character. ;P

So we can all agree on this then for potential buffs, low roll withstanding?
-Slightly faster F3 (also counted as an overhead on a set frame once it starts up).
-Slightly faster regular fades (Ethereal).
-Fixed hit box on F12 (Piercing).
-Slightly larger health gain off Quick Taste (Ravenous).
-Faster normals (any buffs here are welcomed).
-Better backdash.

EDIT: Talking on the EX Roll--I have to agree with GAB on that. Better options available unless of course you're using a mix up or trying to escape corner pressure. I tend to stick with EX Telekick or U3 cancel in my combos if I'm going to burn meter. EX Roll just doesn't seem that rewarding in combos to me. Speaking of which, I'm sad we don't see U3 cancel too often.
I always found it surprising, there is only a few I've heard that saw Roll as a low would be too much. Maybe it should be done so people will actually understand how scary it would be :p

The other buffs I would be fine with. I would probably add a couple of extra "nice to haves"

Bigger hitbox on B21 in Piercing: some great combos are unnecessarily stupid to finish due to the ultra strict timing with B21, especially with 1 usually whiffing. I'm usually quite good with the timing but it shouldn't have to be as strict as it is once you going north of 35% damage.

Walkspeed: for someone that's supposed to be a bait/whiff punisher her walkspeed isn't that good but that is a nice to have
 

Plop

Noob
For me, the "scaling hitbox" of B21 2+4 is what keep me from committing fully to Piercing. That and the F12 whiff issue. As an ender, high/low pounce is far less demanding and therefore consistent, especially online. Ravenous corner combos don't require a run cancel xx ultra unforgiving ender that puckers my butthole every single time.

Which isn't to say you can't master Sadistic Ways, but I (personally) find it far too frustrating.

... but man ... I do miss that low sai ... and the brutality.

Ethereal I just don't know. It's stylish as hell. I can't make it work, but respect to the Ethereal mains keeping that shit on lockdown.
^ This.
All of this.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
In ethereal mileena is very meter dependent but the ex fade is such a good tool for your meter. Not only does it let you safely confirm off of stings but it also gives her plus frames which makes something like F14 ex fade an armor breaking move that is plus on block, launches so she is spending a bar for safe but smaller mixups rather then spending a bar and throwing out ex roll. She can also use ex fade to wakeup for free.
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
I know I'm not the only one who feels this way but I can't pass up on piercing solely because of space control. I'm finding that Mileena deals a very solid damage in most footsie and zoning situations. The fact that she's able to punish common mistakes in neutral very well is what I find is becoming her best trait. For example opponent throws out a button and she whiff punishes with b12 that's 32-39% into a setup. Or you zone with her sai, low sai preventing opponents from ducking or using low profile specials to advance, opponent tries to make a read and jumps in, eats a roll into 24-3?%. Not to mention she has soo many ways already to keep you out of the air that lead to good damage. Then once the opponent tries to react to sai with an armored special you rush that shit down because they're too focused on your projectile game. Same thing in the footsie game, once they're looking at your toes, go in and put them in the mixup blender.
 

Afk Skinny

3D Krusader
I started with Piercing, but moved on to Ravenous. I want Mileena to have her U4 from 9, (or a quicker OH starter). And something I personally would love to see is let Mileena cancel her Roll. Don't know how much that would help, but it'd be pretty cool to do
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
I honestly don't get why everyone thinks ravenous is so godlike, to me it just has too many holes that I can't justify picking it over ethereal or piercing
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
I honestly don't get why everyone thinks ravenous is so godlike, to me it just has too many holes that I can't justify picking it over ethereal or piercing
More damage for ex roll combos, tick throw setup, easier combos in most situations, self-heal option, better meter buidling upclose, stagger strings into throw, F12 never whiffs and finally that secret brutality!. Ask me questions I'll explain everything
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
EDIT: Talking on the EX Roll--I have to agree with GAB on that. Better options available unless of course you're using a mix up or trying to escape corner pressure. I tend to stick with EX Telekick or U3 cancel in my combos if I'm going to burn meter. EX Roll just doesn't seem that rewarding in combos to me. Speaking of which, I'm sad we don't see U3 cancel too often.
I wanted to start to use u3 more but unless I'm trying to end a round, it makes more sense to use ex tk due to better damage in most cases, otherwise save that bar for another scenario.
 
Despite the changes to ethereal and making EX fade actually useful, the change still leaves the mechanic underwhelming and no more complicated to deal with than if it just wasn't there.

Because of her complete lack of safety and total meter dependency to even have any chance whatsoever of mounting any type of offense, which is still minus 23849239283492384298919412090193102391203 from everything, you MUST play her as a footsie and wiff punish character. Because of this, the extended range on B12 makes piercing the best variation.

Her mixup game is entirely meter dependent. We all know that. Without meter, block low, then stand up after the string, and she cannot hit you.

The original combo thread needs to be updated, but the small section highlighting her 50/50s is still pretty much the same. 21 (low 2nd hit) or 2 ex roll (OH 2nd hit) etc... same applies for every string she has that's cancellable before the low hit, all requiring meter, all ridiculously punishable.

This is what the change to ethereal does - The afore mentioned 50/50s can be done twice in the same block string for the cost of 2 meter bars. Do you want to risk all of those resources for a coinflip as to whether or not you you deal or eat 40%? probably not.

Ravenous has OK mixup enders, but one remains a blockable mid. I cannot for the life of me understand why people keep saying she has great mixups. No.... She has super punishable ones that require meter to even be considered a threat at all.

TK air sai needs to be more consistent in every variation. It just does.

So with the idea of needing to play her as a footsie character, which we should all have figured out a month ago... Piercing is the best because of the extended range of one string. It's great that NRS is trying to incorporate viable footsies into the meta, but they don't know how to do it.

A footsie type character trying to control space and play the wiff punish game needs to have faster normals. Her ranged normals are too slow. her pokes are either too slow or don't have enough range. The normals she has that are even fast enough to have any priority over anyone else's starters wiff unless you are at point blank range, besides b12.

She excels at controlling space from about mid screen because of B12 in piercing and because roll being 8 frames can allow her to control that space in front of her. But, it's -29. Her best and fastest space controlling tools are both blockable mids, and the best one she has is a special that gets her blown up if used incorrectly.

It's just a fact that there are other characters that not only have better footsie tools, such as fast pokes with better range, equally strong and safe advancing normals, but these characters also have SAFE mixups as followups to space control and landed pokes, with an easier time of setting them up with LESS meter dependency.

Mileena is basically a footsie only type of character. She should be better at it than she is if other characters can not only out footsie her but also have better tools in the other aspects of the meta.

Her AA is garbage. It's hard to break the MK9 habit of spacing correctly and punishing jump ins with a roll punish, but you have to. roll as an AA is WAY too inconsistent, and will get hit by characters with stupid air priority like scorpion, KJ, or Lao.

F1 and standing 3 give her a decently strong OKI game, but good luck getting into a situation where you can use it..

F3 being that slow is inconsistent with the other good characters in this game.

Again, with the idea of her being completely meter dependent to mount offense, how is she supposed to build it? Any character with a teleport blows her up on reaction for throwing sais. You can literally crouch block and just let her die.

So.... piercing.... I guess is what I'm saying.
 

ExpiredCodes

The Yankees blew a 3-0 lead in the 2004 ALCS.
Despite the changes to ethereal and making EX fade actually useful, the change still leaves the mechanic underwhelming and no more complicated to deal with than if it just wasn't there.

Because of her complete lack of safety and total meter dependency to even have any chance whatsoever of mounting any type of offense, which is still minus 23849239283492384298919412090193102391203 from everything, you MUST play her as a footsie and wiff punish character. Because of this, the extended range on B12 makes piercing the best variation.

Her mixup game is entirely meter dependent. We all know that. Without meter, block low, then stand up after the string, and she cannot hit you.

The original combo thread needs to be updated, but the small section highlighting her 50/50s is still pretty much the same. 21 (low 2nd hit) or 2 ex roll (OH 2nd hit) etc... same applies for every string she has that's cancellable before the low hit, all requiring meter, all ridiculously punishable.

This is what the change to ethereal does - The afore mentioned 50/50s can be done twice in the same block string for the cost of 2 meter bars. Do you want to risk all of those resources for a coinflip as to whether or not you you deal or eat 40%? probably not.

Ravenous has OK mixup enders, but one remains a blockable mid. I cannot for the life of me understand why people keep saying she has great mixups. No.... She has super punishable ones that require meter to even be considered a threat at all.

TK air sai needs to be more consistent in every variation. It just does.

So with the idea of needing to play her as a footsie character, which we should all have figured out a month ago... Piercing is the best because of the extended range of one string. It's great that NRS is trying to incorporate viable footsies into the meta, but they don't know how to do it.

A footsie type character trying to control space and play the wiff punish game needs to have faster normals. Her ranged normals are too slow. her pokes are either too slow or don't have enough range. The normals she has that are even fast enough to have any priority over anyone else's starters wiff unless you are at point blank range, besides b12.

She excels at controlling space from about mid screen because of B12 in piercing and because roll being 8 frames can allow her to control that space in front of her. But, it's -29. Her best and fastest space controlling tools are both blockable mids, and the best one she has is a special that gets her blown up if used incorrectly.

It's just a fact that there are other characters that not only have better footsie tools, such as fast pokes with better range, equally strong and safe advancing normals, but these characters also have SAFE mixups as followups to space control and landed pokes, with an easier time of setting them up with LESS meter dependency.

Mileena is basically a footsie only type of character. She should be better at it than she is if other characters can not only out footsie her but also have better tools in the other aspects of the meta.

Her AA is garbage. It's hard to break the MK9 habit of spacing correctly and punishing jump ins with a roll punish, but you have to. roll as an AA is WAY too inconsistent, and will get hit by characters with stupid air priority like scorpion, KJ, or Lao.

F1 and standing 3 give her a decently strong OKI game, but good luck getting into a situation where you can use it..

F3 being that slow is inconsistent with the other good characters in this game.

Again, with the idea of her being completely meter dependent to mount offense, how is she supposed to build it? Any character with a teleport blows her up on reaction for throwing sais. You can literally crouch block and just let her die.

So.... piercing.... I guess is what I'm saying.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
you MUST play her as a footsie and wiff punish character. Because of this, the extended range on B12 makes piercing the best variation
Roll is the fastest thing she has. Technically everything that can be punished by B12 can be punished with roll. About the footsie, if anyone knows the piercing matchup they will poke/throw mileena after blocking B12. At least in ravenous the ability to cancel B12 and B22 into high pounce makes everyone hesitate to press buttons

Her mixup game is entirely meter dependent. We all know that. Without meter, block low, then stand up after the string, and she cannot hit you
Ravenous has tick throw setup to hit crouch people, it sucks in most situations but at least she can hit people crouching

Again, with the idea of her being completely meter dependent to mount offense, how is she supposed to build it?
In piercing you usually do this: B12 stop, B21 stop, F12B4 stop, F234, F44. In ravenous you can do B12 high pounce (hp), B21 hp F12B4hp, F4hp (F4hp can catch people for 20% free damage, no risk involved). So I can say that in ravenous you build more meter.
One big thing piercing has is bigger damage combos for most starters, except ex roll. To do those big combos you also got a high chance that the second of hit sadistic way misses. Unless NRS fix the god damn hitbox of sadistic way and F12, after the latest patch I can say ravenous is better than piercing now
 
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Some buffs requested here are too much. What Mileena really needs is her f234 string to be -5, not -10. I think ethereal is her best variation right now. On piercing just fix her hitbox issues, and ravenous just make low pounce an overhead. That's all I ask and she will be an awesome mid-tier character with 3 useful variations.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
She needs her regular fades to not have 50 billion startup frames. Keep the recovery the same, but make the startup much quicker so I can utilize them in the neutral for run away. It's hard to encorporate them to dodge projectiles unless you are full screen due to the slow as hell startup.

Her Ex Fades are perfect, and I don't expect her regular ones to be like that, but they do need to be a little faster to make them more useful.
 

ExpiredCodes

The Yankees blew a 3-0 lead in the 2004 ALCS.
She needs her regular fades to not have 50 billion startup frames. Keep the recovery the same, but make the startup much quicker so I can utilize them in the neutral for run away. It's hard to encorporate them to dodge projectiles unless you are full screen due to the slow as hell startup.

Her Ex Fades are perfect, and I don't expect her regular ones to be like that, but they do need to be a little faster to make them more useful.
This plus Sadistic Ways/F12 fixes and I'd be completely fine.
 
Roll is the fastest thing she has. Technically everything that can be punished by B12 can be punished with roll. About the footsie, if anyone knows the piercing matchup they will poke/throw mileena after blocking B12. At least in ravenous the ability to cancel B12 and B22 into high pounce makes everyone hesitate to press buttons


Ravenous has tick throw setup to hit crouch people, it sucks in most situations but at least she can hit people crouching


In piercing you usually do this: B12 stop, B21 stop, F12B4 stop, F234, F44. In ravenous you can do B12 high pounce (hp), B21 hp F12B4hp, F4hp (F4hp can catch people for 20% free damage, no risk involved). So I can say that in ravenous you build more meter.
One big thing piercing has is bigger damage combos for most starters, except ex roll. To do those big combos you also got a high chance that the second of hit sadistic way misses. Unless NRS fix the god damn hitbox of sadistic way and F12, after the latest patch I can say ravenous is better than piercing now
I mentioned roll as a space controlling tool.

B12 being special cancellable isn't specific to ravenous. Why would you try and poke or throw after B12 in piercing when she can cancel it into anything?

She doesn't have the toolset required to be viable in the play style you're forced into using her.

I am so sick of the whole "you need to use her as a footsie and wiff punisher character she's totally fine" argument coming from people who main characters that do it better plus excel in the 50/50 meta.

I've been pretty pissed at how bad she blows since release. The more people keep trying to convince each other she's alright, the less likely it is she actually gets made viable.

It's ok if she needs to be a space controlling wiff punisher, but it isn't ok if she both needs to be that type of character AND has a billion strings and frame data that don't coincide with that play style.

F it. Just make F1 an overhead because she's literally slaping you on the top of the head. lol
 
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