Perfect Legend's Raiden

[EndofGameBoss]

What I don't get is that certain raiden matches I've seen, people were actually punishing raiden's teleport consistently but not one punish was given to pl's teleports. Did I miss something or is raiden's teleport unpunnishable?

I couldn't help but notice sometimes he managed to teleport further behind them...I don't know how, but he did. Also as someone said, he plays veeeeery fast.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Yeah, PL doesn't teleport randomly like most online scrubs. He obviously has setups and knows when to teleport.

Raiden can either appear right next to you (easy punish IF you're not in the middle of something) or he can appear at sweep distance out of jab/short and throw range, making it literally impossible to punish for 99% of the cast.

Also, a teleport we don't actually expect is 8 times harder to react to.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Yeah, PL doesn't teleport randomly like most online scrubs. He obviously has setups and knows when to teleport.

Raiden can either appear right next to you (easy punish IF you're not in the middle of something) or he can appear at sweep distance out of jab/short and throw range, making it literally impossible to punish for 99% of the cast.

Also, a teleport we don't actually expect is 8 times harder to react to.

Good point.

I was fooling around with Raiden against AI, and see that , sometimes, AI just step back or dash back, and, this, simply whiffs naturally Raidens B 3,1,2, what seems very punishable if did not hit .....

The Raiden player most will go for 4 options after a sucessful teleport that caught oponent by surprise :

- a throw
- a superman eletric fly
- a combo starting with B 3,1,2 , 334, or 12 shocking
- a crossup jump punch

If a player just jump back after Raiden teleport, if not in the corner, he can avoid a throw, a crossup and any combo string starter .... he cannot avoid the superman

If a player just block, he can avoid superman, combo and cross jump punch, but not a throw

Raiden doesn't accept the "ground" game pressure, he does not allow rushdown pressure against him, the only way to deal with him, seems to be : being patient, trying for isolate hits, not constantly rushdown and jumping more than against any other character .... I know that superman can be used in the air, but, it's a risky staying in the ground all the time against Raiden. He will just teleport every time he sees the first signal of an attack that is too close range.

I think the strategy seems to be creating distance between Raiden and you , after his teleport, or just jump back or over him, to the other side, expecting him to whiff his move of choice.

 

[IKizzLE]

After playing PL's raiden, his use of teleport happens as a counter measure.

First off, the teleport will be farther away from you if you are advancing forward. Right next to you if your blocking.
Second, PL teleports are all reactionary. You will never see him be across screen and just teleport out of the blue. He teleports right before the first move of your string or IN BETWEEN YOUR GOD DAMN strings. You cant punish raiden if your attacking ghosts....

Why is that frustrating?! Well, I played his raiden 6 games and took two games. One thing I notice was that he would block the first hit of sektor's b34, let go of block and teleport before the 4 even went over his head. Just dumb.

I was also watching casuals of him and slips and slips would do 111~leg grab and PL teleported before the grab every time. He also teleported in between d4~leg grab. Very hard to do but he does it.

When you fight PL's Raiden(important emphasis on PL's RAIDEN), you are automatically forced to play his game. The fact that PL plays at a million miles an hour doesn't help either...

 

[xenogorgeous]

After playing PL's raiden, his use of teleport happens as a counter measure.

First off, the teleport will be farther away from you if you are advancing forward. Right next to you if your blocking.
Second, PL teleports are all reactionary. You will never see him be across screen and just teleport out of the blue. He teleports right before the first move of your string or IN BETWEEN YOUR GOD DAMN strings. You cant punish raiden if your attacking ghosts....

Why is that frustrating?! Well, I played his raiden 6 games and took two games. One thing I notice was that he would block the first hit of sektor's b34, let go of block and teleport before the 4 even went over his head. Just dumb.

I was also watching casuals of him and slips and slips would do 111~leg grab and PL teleported before the grab every time. He also teleported in between d4~leg grab. Very hard to do but he does it.

When you fight PL's Raiden(important emphasis on PL's RAIDEN), you are automatically forced to play his game. The fact that PL plays at a million miles an hour doesn't help either...

Very good analysis, your summary is fantastic. PL incorporated Raiden teleport in some unusual kind of strategy, or, in other words, he play ultra fast, and, he insert teleport in the middle or combo strings. Or better saying, every single frame window time interval between hits, PL figured out how teleport in that such short time space, and confuse the opponent.

PL is no joke, he seems that went in the lab and explored a lot Raiden gameplay, and came back with a sinister efficient gameplay based in adversary time reaction. Scary ....

 

[THTB]

After playing PL's raiden, his use of teleport happens as a counter measure.

First off, the teleport will be farther away from you if you are advancing forward. Right next to you if your blocking.
Second, PL teleports are all reactionary. You will never see him be across screen and just teleport out of the blue. He teleports right before the first move of your string or IN BETWEEN YOUR GOD DAMN strings. You cant punish raiden if your attacking ghosts....

Why is that frustrating?! Well, I played his raiden 6 games and took two games. One thing I notice was that he would block the first hit of sektor's b34, let go of block and teleport before the 4 even went over his head. Just dumb.

I was also watching casuals of him and slips and slips would do 111~leg grab and PL teleported before the grab every time. He also teleported in between d4~leg grab. Very hard to do but he does it.

When you fight PL's Raiden(important emphasis on PL's RAIDEN), you are automatically forced to play his game. The fact that PL plays at a million miles an hour doesn't help either...

Exactly!

He's teleporting off of setups and in reaction to what you do. That's what makes the teleport still dumb, even in its nerfed state. And why I get really annoyed at people saying you can punish his teleport. Yes, you can punish it, but you will not punish it often, simply because a top Raiden won't be using it where it's always punishable.

Seriously. If you are punishing a "top" Raiden for his teleport consistently, you must have the awareness and reactionary skills of a god, or they are extremely predictable and not quite top level.

 

[Big Pampering]

Exactly!

He's teleporting off of setups and in reaction to what you do. That's what makes the teleport still dumb, even in its nerfed state. And why I get really annoyed at people saying you can punish his teleport. Yes, you can punish it, but you will not punish it often, simply because a top Raiden won't be using it where it's always punishable.

Seriously. If you are punishing a "top" Raiden for his teleport consistently, you must have the awareness and reactionary skills of a god, or they are extremely predictable and not quite top level.

well those are the scrubby raidens 90% of us have to deal with. I dont know why there arent as much raiden players as other top tier characters are right now

 

[Big Pampering]

After playing PL's raiden, his use of teleport happens as a counter measure.

First off, the teleport will be farther away from you if you are advancing forward. Right next to you if your blocking.
Second, PL teleports are all reactionary. You will never see him be across screen and just teleport out of the blue. He teleports right before the first move of your string or IN BETWEEN YOUR GOD DAMN strings. You cant punish raiden if your attacking ghosts....

Why is that frustrating?! Well, I played his raiden 6 games and took two games. One thing I notice was that he would block the first hit of sektor's b34, let go of block and teleport before the 4 even went over his head. Just dumb.

I was also watching casuals of him and slips and slips would do 111~leg grab and PL teleported before the grab every time. He also teleported in between d4~leg grab. Very hard to do but he does it.

When you fight PL's Raiden(important emphasis on PL's RAIDEN), you are automatically forced to play his game. The fact that PL plays at a million miles an hour doesn't help either...

nice shit man, you could see that in a few game already? this is the first time I got this question in my mind within Mk. Is there actually a possibility of another player being able to play like Pl's style raiden? its like Cd who is the only rush down kitana at the moment

 

[CJKRattlehead]

Exactly!

He's teleporting off of setups and in reaction to what you do. That's what makes the teleport still dumb, even in its nerfed state. And why I get really annoyed at people saying you can punish his teleport. Yes, you can punish it, but you will not punish it often, simply because a top Raiden won't be using it where it's always punishable.

Seriously. If you are punishing a "top" Raiden for his teleport consistently, you must have the awareness and reactionary skills of a god, or they are extremely predictable and not quite top level.

PL was abusing that tele a little too much, If Slips knew the first thing about fighting Raiden he wouldn't have been blown up for every D1 he did in that set. PL is good but that was hard to watch, considering how predictable he was being.

 

[THTB]

He's using it in spots people won't expect him to. That's the thing.

 

[Gruntypants]

Damn, now everyone is going to hop on the raiden bandwagon.

Sent from my asshole using Crapatalk

 

[CJKRattlehead]

He's using it in spots people won't expect him to. That's the thing.

He did B312 tele way too many times, if he traded, he tele'd, on wakeup he tele'd, on crossup he tele'd. Seems pretty predictable to me.

 

[Gruntypants]

He did B312 tele way too many times, if he traded, he tele'd, on wakeup he tele'd, on crossup he tele'd. Seems pretty predictable to me.

Teleporting after the B312 makes the string safe because if the 2's blockstun so thats a given that he would always teleport after the string.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

Teleporting after the B312 makes the string safe because if the 2's blockstun so thats a given that he would always teleport after the string.

Safe? You sure about that, Tele takes about 25 frames (start-up and recovery)

 

[ForeverKing]

Ohio > VSM is confirmed as of today.

Perfect Legend
FOREVER KING
M2Dave
Master D
THTB

Who can stop it??

 

[IKizzLE]

Safe? You sure about that, Tele takes about 25 frames (start-up and recovery)

CJK, its 14 frames.
It takes your character 4 frames to turn around and 9 frames to turn around when your blocking which leaves 5 frames to punish when your actually playing the game. But dont quote me on this info.

CJK, since your so godlike, you play PL's raiden and try to punish his teleport, and then try to win

 

[THTB]

He did B312 tele way too many times, if he traded, he tele'd, on wakeup he tele'd, on crossup he tele'd. Seems pretty predictable to me.

/facepalm

 

[IKizzLE]

nice shit man, you could see that in a few game already? this is the first time I got this question in my mind within Mk. Is there actually a possibility of another player being able to play like Pl's style raiden? its like Cd who is the only rush down kitana at the moment

Well, I played PL 8 games. Dizzy played him 5 games. Slips and 16bit both played him 10 games. After we got blown up, we all just talked about what the hell he was doing and why it worked.

And his KL is just as nasty. No casuals were recorded but if you watch Forever King taking console combat, would give you an idea of his KL, but double his speed.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

CJK, its 14 frames.
It takes your character 4 frames to turn around and 9 frames to turn around when your blocking which leaves 5 frames to punish when your actually playing the game. But dont quote me on this info.

CJK, since your so godlike, you play PL's raiden and try to punish his teleport, and then try to win

I would love to play PL's Raiden, maybe at EVO.

 

[Espio]

Damn, now everyone is going to hop on the raiden bandwagon.

Sent from my asshole using Crapatalk

So..business as usual then? LOL.

 

[Victor Guapo]

The worst match up against raiden is My kano ... every teleport is a freaking upball in the ass No charge .. even the most skillfull raiden cant deal with a smart Kano .. every teleport is a Upball .. whats a raiden with no teleport?
a raiden with no teleport is like a Sub zero with no ice clone they worth nothing so thats how kano treat raidens and Cyrax..
i personally would like to play perfect leyend's Raiden i bet he didnt taste the Rage of kano

 

[Espio]

I think it's important to keep in mind that a smart player doesn't let one move be their rock and only means of shutting people down. A Raiden player would be a fool to keep teleporting on Kano.

Just like it would be ill advised for Johnny Cage to try and outzone Noob Saibot.

Different match ups require different strategies, I'm sure a seasoned player after being punished multiple times with up balls would cease doing it recklessly, consistent punishes are the only thing that forces people to change up their strategies.


Though I presume you were posting in jest perhaps, making my point moot and my post pointless

 

[Playpal]

PL's Raiden was risky. He tele'd a lot, both on reaction and on good reads. He played a rushdown Raiden, which can be just as risky as playing scorpion's vortex game. He never linked a string into tele, which is smart because if you do that the opponent will auto-correct and face raiden. He teleported during neutral frames after finishing a string to escape pokes. Raiden should never get a full combo when he does this because even a whiffed poke will be safe. Kitana's D1 has 27 frames of whiff recovery and raiden's teleport lasts 28 frames (I'm assuming most other D1s have similar recovery). PL abused Raiden's shitty block strings because no one ever interrupted them, making it look like raiden has good rush down but really it's PL who has good rush down. He also used his breakers at bad times and dropped his combos alot. One thing I really hated seeing was B3 into throw. Pretty much everything Raiden does is disadvantage except for F24.

 

[IKizzLE]

Only thing slips could of done better was ex spear through his strings.

 

[M2Dave]

PL abused Raiden's shitty block strings because no one ever interrupted them, making it look like raiden has good rush down but really it's PL who has good rush down.

As far as I know, Kitana cannot interrupt Raiden's strings unless you want to risk getting launched for 2% (i.e., d+1) of damage. Scorpion, on the other hand, needs meter to interrupt. Perhaps Slips figured that he had rather save his meter for combo breakers.

I am glad Perfect Legend is back and I like to see him win because he is from my state, but his Raiden is honestly nothing the community has not seen before. Maxter, for example, played a similar style at Season's Beatings last year. The good players will impress no matter which characters they decide to use.

On a side note, Raiden's teleport is partially effective because of the awful block mechanics of this game. I do not know why it takes a couple of frames to transition from a block- to a neutral-state. This poor mechanic needs to be changed in the next MK game.