Perfect Legend - "Kabal is falling off my tier list. Cyrax is #1 no question."

[STB Shujinkydink]

PL doesn't play kabal at a top level. Regardless of that though this conversation is essentially taking away from djt. He's the world champion. Congrats to him, that's all that should be said.

 

[roosTakk]

You turkeys are confusing DJT's skill with the character. His cyrax was on point and he played extremely smart and patient with good execution = he won. Why does that all of a sudden make cyrax #1?

 

[roosTakk]

also if anyone is looking to play a cyrax on xbl add me im always looking for more people to play

 

[xenogorgeous]

PL is wrong here .... he is a hell of good player, but he is not at Reo's level playing Kabal, so, none changes the fact that Kabal is the number #1 char in MK9 ..... DJT did a hell of good job nullifying all Kabals in Evo, but, no way in hell Cyrax could be considered number 1 S+ tier in MK9 ...

Cyrax is among top 3 or top 5, at the best

 

[K7L33THA]

Kabal is simultaneously the best in the game AND overrated.

 

[STRYKIE]

Btw I like how people are downplaying PL's Kabal when he was the closest to playing the matchup correctly at EVO. He seemed to be the only one that noticed Denzell wasn't taking the bait on IAGBs and kept him honest with NDCs, whilst Detroit and REO were only only rushing him down when they had no choice.

You turkeys are confusing DJT's skill with the character. His cyrax was on point and he played extremely smart and patient with good execution = he won. Why does that all of a sudden make cyrax #1?

Because most other Cyrax players DON'T have good execution, or patience.

 

[roosTakk]

Because most other Cyrax players DON'T have good execution, or patience.

I would argue they have great execution... ~90% 1 bar reset isn't easy...but im with you on the patience.

 

[STRYKIE]

I would argue they have great execution... ~90% 1 bar reset isn't easy...but im with you on the patience.

It's more a case of muscle memory imo, but yeah, whiffing the first hit off B2 on purpose is no slouch lol.

 

[xKhaoTik]

If cyrax didn't have bad MUs, then he'd be a contender for the #1 spot. But he does.

PL thinks Kabal has Bad MUs too.

I personally think Kabal is #1 with no bad MUs and cyrax is top 5 with 2 bad MUs

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

7-3 or 8-2. Cool out Carl

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

If cyrax didn't have bad MUs, then he'd be a contender for the #1 spot. But he does.

PL thinks Kabal has Bad MUs too.

I personally think Kabal is #1 with no bad MUs and cyrax is top 5 with 2 bad MUs

Who does he think Kabal loses to?

 

[crosstalk]

I don't think any character has come close to Kabal's domination in tournaments throughout the game's history. Michaelangelo, Erik Warda, Kevo, Jr, PL, REO, and Curbo have all won or gotten top 8 at a major with the character. What other character has had that much success? Besides tournament success, the character design itself has very little flaws. The only real ones are perhaps limited defense options without meter and hitbox issues against certain characters. Other than that, the character really has just about everything.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Who does he think Kabal loses to?

He's dead set on Lao beating Kabal. I dont think anyone can change his mind on that.

He mentioned Kitana may beat him too. I disagree on that one. She can definitely hang with him (if she knows the MU), but I wouldn't go as far to say she beats or even goes 5-5 with him.

 

[Akromaniac27]

I haven't watched PL's set, but I did see REO's, and though the games were close, it wouldn't have been that way so much had he used his meter better for EX NDC. He was constantly stocked up on a full bar and was just waiting to get caught in a combo so he could break which in the end was still rather pointless since the damage he ate was equivalent to 1 section of a bar, if not more each time and all that meter he never gained because it went nowhere. I found it ironic how REO would talk about how he hopes Kabal players would incorporate his EX NDC's more in their game given its advantage yet he didn't use it once in that set(correct me if I'm wrong). That being said, he didn't play Kabal the way he normally would have imo, was dropping combos, became predictable many times, but he still came pretty close. That to me, aside from everything else we know of Kabal says a lot about the character. That even with all those slip ups, he still came close against a player that had great execution and patience using someone like Cyrax. Just because a player outsmarts you, doesn't mean the character you used is beneath them now

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

agreed, he'll work on those for sure now tho.

You guys are for sure not going to VXG?

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

He's dead set on Lao beating Kabal. I dont think anyone can change his mind on that.

He mentioned Kitana may beat him too. I disagree on that one. She can definitely hang with him (if she knows the MU), but I wouldn't go as far to say she beats or even goes 5-5 with him.

-___- How is he gonna say that when he lost to REO at evo, King lost to REO at evo, and I beat his lao a lot when we play online. Now I know its online but I feel like the MU is harder for kabal online anyways. If you pay attention you can see when Kung Laos strings end, ex NDC jumpins/crossovers, and you can dash away standing 4 his teleport on reaction time offline. Out of every Kung Lao player I've played so far offline with my Kabal I have dominated no problem.

 

[Matix218]

-___- How is he gonna say that when he lost to REO at evo, King lost to REO at evo, and I beat his lao a lot when we play online. Now I know its online but I feel like the MU is harder for kabal online anyways. If you pay attention you can see when Kung Laos strings end, ex NDC jumpins/crossovers, and you can dash away standing 4 his teleport on reaction time offline. Out of every Kung Lao player I've played so far offline with my Kabal I have dominated no problem.

Curbo, completely off topic but why didn't you go to evo? would have been sweet to see you face off against the top guys one last time

 

[MoldMan]

I will be real intrested whos on top tier in mk10

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

Curbo, completely off topic but why didn't you go to evo? would have been sweet to see you face off against the top guys one last time

Trying save some money at the same time prolly couldn't afford it because I didn't see evo coming until a week and a half before it came.

 

[afrozilla86]

ZSS beats metaknight, zero suit Samus is the best character in the game uncontested. That is about how much logic this thread makes

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

No. Top 3? Abso-fucking-lutely. But he's not better than Kabal.

DJT played the Cyrax/Kabal match-up to absolute perfection three seperate times (and if any Cyrax players HAVEN'T seen his Cyrax at EVO, I'd highly recommend checking it out), but I don't think that's enough to knock Kabal out of the number 1 spot.

Unmatched projectile game and a rushdown game that may be on par with a few others, but certainly not beaten. Kabal is still #1

However, I would not be opposed to seeing Cyrax on top of the MK mountain. If I get proven wrong, I will gladly take that

Beatz drops the bass of truth.

I've never seen the MU played so precisely in my life.

My only surprise was that he kept going for the DJK ender instead of the Net/2'nd Net into Command Grab reset, but the man beat Reo on the grandest stage of them all, so I have no fucking room to talk, anywhere, ever.

Absolutely phenomenal.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I'm sure if mk9 had the injustice training mode we'd complain less about NDC pressure.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

You guys are for sure not going to VXG?

yep can't go , we'd love to if we could. I know mk going to be great there, IGAU as well.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Like it or not, this debate is hype, not only is making MK9 forums alive again, but there is no one crying a river for cyrax and kabal being retarded as we see everyday on Inj... ooops

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Off the top of my head:


cyrax matchups that might be even but i dunno prolly cyrax wins: skarlet, kung lao, sindel (ok a stretch), shang tsung (only if he did more damage, i have a lot of experience with this one)
cyrax matchups that in my opinion are very possibly even: liu kang johnny cage(really believe in this one) kenshi (could be 6-4 kenshi) raiden
cyrax matchups that are very possibly potential losses: jax freddy smoke sonya kitana sektor(debated calling this a definite loss)
cyrax matchups in my opinion that are sure losses: kabal

kabal even matchups: ehhh maybe kung rao and kitana?? nehhhh 6-4 kabal

kenshi bad matchups: kung lao and kabal
kenshi potential even matchups: cyrax skarlet freddy(okay this is a toughy) (this blind asshole beats reptile and smoke you [ban incoming])
kenshi wrecks all else
freddy bad matchups: smoke kabal kung lao
freddy matchups i feel are even or possibly even wins: skarlet kenshi(no way kenshi wins) mileena raiden cyrax (imo this could be in freds favor)
freddy wrecks all else


cyrax preys on mistakes however so if we balanced the risk/reward ratios of the read scenarios matchups might be different

but at the highest level this beast of a character could be anywhere between 2 and 6, but not better than a character who literally beats everyone else if played to perfection.

Kenshi beats really shitty smokes free

This is one of his hardest Mus