Perfect Legend - "Kabal is falling off my tier list. Cyrax is #1 no question."

[Mr_Swizzer]

Cryax doesn't have the same tools as Kabal.

 

[coolwhip]

Like always - it's not the character that matters, it's the person who plays him. Denzel proved that.

I agree. Too bad no one is applying that logic to KDZ/Superman. That's double standards for you.

 

[Big Pampering]

He's dead set on Lao beating Kabal. I dont think anyone can change his mind on that.

He mentioned Kitana may beat him too. I disagree on that one. She can definitely hang with him (if she knows the MU), but I wouldn't go as far to say she beats or even goes 5-5 with him.

I think foreverking might have something to do with that kabal-kung lao matchup...

 

[Big Pampering]

-___- How is he gonna say that when he lost to REO at evo, King lost to REO at evo, and I beat his lao a lot when we play online. Now I know its online but I feel like the MU is harder for kabal online anyways. If you pay attention you can see when Kung Laos strings end, ex NDC jumpins/crossovers, and you can dash away standing 4 his teleport on reaction time offline. Out of every Kung Lao player I've played so far offline with my Kabal I have dominated no problem.

even foxy? imo he is the only one who really plays lao 100% like it should, also the only lao who seems to see how cheap 24 spin is.

 

[Axel_Redd]

I would give Cyrax top 3, but not #1. Kabal is the undisputed best. In my opinion Kabal has no 5-5 match-ups besides the mirror match; he beats Kung Lao 6-4, Cyblax 6-4, Kitana 6-4, Reptile 6-4, and beats every other character in the game I didn't mention 7-3 or worse.

Honestly DJT played amazing, REO played amazing, they are both possibly top Cyrax and top Kabal respectively. But in my honest opinion, Cyrax and Kabal aren't even near being played to their highest potential yet. This game is still being fleshed out, and we are starting to see that now ever since last Friday. Human error keeps us from playing Kabal and Cyrax at the highest possible level, it is too hard to have the perfect execution you need at all times to be playing these two characters at the highest possible level.

Kabal being played at the highest possible level:
Your IAGB are perfect. You can IAGB so fast and so low to the ground that your opponent can't even dash block to get in. They have to walk crouch, walk crouch, walk crouch. Because dashing will cause you to get hit in the face by a gas blast. You have to be able to 2~NDC block infinite big hitbox characters, and also need to be able to mixup the block infinite with things such as B1~EX NDC and F32~EX NDC. Playing Kabal at the highest possible level means that your zoning is so perfect that by the time your opponent gets next to you, you already have a full bar of meter. And you can use that meter to EX Nomad Dash and EX NDC. EX Nomad Dash/NDC stops cross overs, stops jump ins, stops rushdown, stops zoning. It literally does everything. You can even use EX NDC to pressure your opponent and have enough frame advantage to guarantee that they have to block your next attack. You need to pressure your opponent all day and use mix-ups until you eventually guess right with low buzz saw or hookswords. Any time you connect with low buzz saw or hookswords = a hard knockdown, and any time Kabal gets a hard knockdown you can zone until you have full bar of meter again. Not to mention Kabal has 40% meterless BnB's that end in F4 standing reset, in which you can start pressuring your opponent, mix them up, or just start zoning for your full bar of meter again. When Kabal plays perfectly, he is literally untouchable.

Cyrax being played at highest possible level:
Everytime you touch your opponent, it is a 100% combo. Tony-T showed combos where if you shoot a net from full screen and it catches your opponent, you can teleport to them and get a 100%. Whether the net caught them in the air or on the ground. Also Cyrax has like unbreakable 70% combos I believe. Hell I even seen Cyrax combos posted on this website that were like 60% meterless. So that means if Cyrax is being played perfectly at the highest possible level with no human error or no mistakes, you opponent loses his whole life bar every single time he is caught in a net, whether the net catches you grounded or airborne, sweep distance or full-screen, it doesn't even matter. And if Cyrax has meter, he can do anywhere between 40%-70% unbreakable combos. That means you can't even save yourself with your breaker. Also let's not forget his EX net. Let's take this situation for example. Let's say this was a real tournament match. Kung Lao vs Cyrax. Kung Lao has a 100% life with one bar of meter, Cyrax has 1% life 2 bars of meter. Kung Lao decides to chip out Cyrax with a dive kick. The dive kick wasn't enough, Cyrax blocks the dive kick. 21~EX net..... Now Cyrax just did a 100% combo with 1 bar of meter and Kung Lao is dead, he couldn't get a breaker in time to stop the combo. That is some shit that could legitimately happen in a real match. That is fucked up lol.

^^^

Nobody is playing Cyrax or Kabal like this yet, and when people do start playing Cyrax and Kabal like this every single other character in the game is pretty much going to become obsolete. But like I said, human error prevents people from playing Cyrax and Kabal like this, so it will probably never happen. Humans make mistakes, humans mess up inputs and humans drop combos.

cyrax can't do 100% offa 1 bar, it has to be 2 bar minimum i believe. and can u point me as to the one ur talking about where u can get 100% if u catch them with a net fullscreen?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

CURBOLICOUS, after playing REO with sonya, I have to conclude that the matchup is 6 4 . Also I base this off of how well morty did vs reo and my god as well.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

even foxy? imo he is the only one who really plays lao 100% like it should, also the only lao who seems to see how cheap 24 spin is.

I feel lao does do better than most vs kabal (but I still prefer sonya in that matchup since she is a bully haha). Also i'm still surprised that ppl haven't learned the lao matchup that well yet lol.

 

[Big Pampering]

I feel lao does do better than most vs kabal (but I still prefer sonya in that matchup since she is a bully haha). Also i'm still surprised that ppl haven't learned the lao matchup that well yet lol.

lao is one of the best choices against kabal. but there are some things I haven't seen people do yet in the matchup, like kabals who like to use ex dash as anti crossup can get punished by a lao who does crossover ex teleport. or after 1121/24/21 people have to gues whether lao is going to spin or not, kabal players like to do ex dash in case lao goes for spin or another string, lao players can do an ex teleport after one of his strings, he still gets to pressure even if the kabal players decides to block. what I don't understand is why lao players decide to pressure kabal on kockdown, lao doesnt have any guessing games and only gets a string if he guessed right or a f2 which can be seen on reaction, if kabal guesses right he gets full combo. Imo they should just bait wakeups on knockdown(kabal players loses one meter for ex dash and gets full combo punished and can only break if he had 3 bars), the difference with lao is it doesnt really matter if kabal gets away, lao gets in easily unlike other characters who need to pursue him the whole match.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

lao is one of the best choices against kabal. but there are some things I haven't seen people do yet in the matchup, like kabals who like to use ex dash as anti crossup can get punished by a lao who does crossover ex teleport. or after 1121/24/21 people have to gues whether lao is going to spin or not, kabal players like to do ex dash in case lao goes for spin or another string, lao players can do an ex teleport after one of his strings, he still gets to pressure even if the kabal players decides to block. what I don't understand is why lao players decide to pressure kabal on kockdown, lao doesnt have any guessing games and only gets a string if he guessed right or a f2 which can be seen on reaction, if kabal guesses right he gets full combo. Imo they should just bait wakeups on knockdown(kabal players loses one meter for ex dash and gets full combo punished and can only break if he had 3 bars), the difference with lao is it doesnt really matter if kabal gets away, lao gets in easily unlike other characters who need to pursue him the whole match.

agreed, lao has the best tools to deal with kabal.

 

[Eh SnOwY]

nicholascagelaugh.gif

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

KABAL is N1. and i can say why reo and pl lost to djt. DJT is the GOD of blocking and he punished many times kabal NDC. I dont understand why REO and PL don't realesed it. They have to use more dashs withouth cancels when they feels they will get punish their NDC and full combo they guy because he takes the dash. Or just use more EX NDC to punish him. They just used NDC all the time like usually and DJT was never punished when he tryed to stop pressure during NDC

 

[STRYKIE]

ZSS beats metaknight, zero suit Samus is the best character in the game uncontested. That is about how much logic this thread makes

A ZSS player beat the 3 best Metaknights on the planet in Brawl when?

 

[Sablicious]

With how s[crub]-tier the 'Klu Klux CKlan' are in this game, it's a wonder while Ed Bane doesn't just patch the game to allow the bosses for tournament play. Not even Kahn can do 90%+ damage without an X-ray (with the exception of his shoulder juggle, which is easily fixed / removed).

There really should be a rule of both 'no mirror matches' and that you must stick with the same character for the entirety of the tournament. That way, if a / the final ends up a mirror match, people will have to choose alternate characters; thereby promoting more diverse character mastery / use. ...maybe.

Evo 2013 was a complete bore, watching Kabal after Kung Lao after Cyrax after Kenshi. I know they're playing for money. But, games are about entertainment, and seeing the same cagey gameplay and rote combos spammed by the same few character is about as entertaining as having your tear ducts cleaned out using hot skewers.

 

[Immortal]

Evo 2013 was a complete bore, watching Kabal after Kung Lao after Cyrax after Kenshi. I know they're playing for money. But, games are about entertainment, and seeing the same cagey gameplay and rote combos spammed by the same few character is about as entertaining as having your tear ducts cleaned out using hot skewers.

Wait, what?

You clearly watched different EVO 13 then the rest of us. There were like maybe 3 Kenshis total lol. Not so many Kung Lao's and several Kabals. Look at top 8 not to mention 16/32. Dunno what's your definition of entertainment, but this year MK@EVO was MEGA hype.

If that was a complete bore then im afraid to ask how do you call IGAU @ EVO lol.

 

[Solid]

ive honestly never seen anyone play mk as well as djt did this weekend.. yes he played cyrax but i twas more the player than anything..
he didnt get hit by shit

Do you think by playing the same way with his SubZero he would have done as well as he did with Cyrax?

 

[THTB]

ZSS beats metaknight, zero suit Samus is the best character in the game uncontested. That is about how much logic this thread makes

If this is true, it's only a testament to how long I've been out of the Brawl loop. The ZSS-MK matchup part.

 

[Solid]

Beatz drops the bass of truth.

I've never seen the MU played so precisely in my life.

My only surprise was that he kept going for the DJK ender instead of the Net/2'nd Net into Command Grab reset, but the man beat Reo on the grandest stage of them all, so I have no fucking room to talk, anywhere, ever.

Absolutely phenomenal.

I have seen somebody play the same way Denzel played the Kabal match up way before EVO 2013. I saw this some time ago. That somebody was Tom Brady bodying Kabals with his Sub Zero. I guess people forget.

 

[Reauxbot]

With how s[crub]-tier the 'Klu Klux CKlan' are in this game, it's a wonder while Ed Bane doesn't just patch the game to allow the bosses for tournament play. Not even Kahn can do 90%+ damage without an X-ray (with the exception of his shoulder juggle, which is easily fixed / removed).

There really should be a rule of both 'no mirror matches' and that you must stick with the same character for the entirety of the tournament. That way, if a / the final ends up a mirror match, people will have to choose alternate characters; thereby promoting more diverse character mastery / use. ...maybe.

Evo 2013 was a complete bore, watching Kabal after Kung Lao after Cyrax after Kenshi. I know they're playing for money. But, games are about entertainment, and seeing the same cagey gameplay and rote combos spammed by the same few character is about as entertaining as having your tear ducts cleaned out using hot skewers.

And they say Injustice has only a few characters that are tournament contenders lol.
Funny...

 

[THTB]

DJT is the GOD of blocking and he punished many times kabal NDC.

Chris Geezus is the higher God of blocking, while DJT is just the God. XD

 

[Briggs8417]

It's not that farfetched IMHO. If Cyrax can make a puppet out of Kabal by not taking the bait on IAGB and waiting for him to corner himself, what does that say about characters that don't have problems against IAGB?

In turn, what does it say about characters that don't have an air fireball vs Cyrax?

On the flipside, nobody else has a meter nullifying EX net, a resetting command grab and 90% damage all in one package, so this doesn't mean every other character will start butchering holes out of Kabal.

It's all speculative within 3 days, but EVO blew the spectrum wide open. No doubt about it.

Quan Chi has Meter nullifying ex trance, inescapable rune traps and big boy damage. QUAN IS THE FUCKING BEST!

 

[TIME | KWOLF]

as much as pl got BODIED by reo, he should still think kabal is the best. if jax won evo would he be #1? when wafflez took final round was smoke top 5? no, just like wafflez, djt just outplayed his opponents. dont mistake that as a tier question. top 3 include kabal, kenshi, and lao. cyrax is no doubt top 5. but pl knows where kabal put him at evo. flawless victory.

 

[STRYKIE]

Quan Chi has Meter nullifying ex trance, inescapable rune traps and big boy damage. QUAN IS THE FUCKING BEST!

Yeah except Quan Chi has more holes in his strings than cheese, Cyrax has about as many expoitable holes in his strings as Birdsongs does in lingerie.

 

[dribirut]

Do you think by playing the same way with his SubZero he would have done as well as he did with Cyrax?

cant tell if youre trolling or not but why are you even asking that

 

[Matix218]

cant tell if youre trolling or not but why are you even asking that

Not a chance. Sub just does not do near enough damage. He would have to catch his opponents so many more times to win.

Edit: oops, meant to reply to solid not you LOL ^_^

 

[Axel_Redd]

in order for cyrax to do 100% from a full screen net, he'd have to use 3 bars wouldn't he?