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Perfect Legend - "Kabal is falling off my tier list. Cyrax is #1 no question."

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Can no one admit that Denzell played his ass off and outplayed someone in a disadvantage MU? It might not be the 8-2 or 7-3 we thought it was based on only 2 years of playing, but it has been shown to be winnable now. Props are in order for the new Champ, and no one should try to take away from his win by saying "it's Cyrax". I support and like PL, but I can't see Cyrax as # 1 when he goes even with several of the top 10-15 (although he beats the the hell out of the fishes) but probably has 1-3 losing matchups still, while Kabal probably beats everyone at least 6-4 (He might have a 5-5, if we're pushing it)

One thing I'll never downplay about Cyrax is he always has the "punchers chance" to pull an even/disadvantage win out of his ass from time to time.
Just for the record, I pointed this out from the get go concerning Pig and Kenshi.
 

Flagg

Champion
Like always - it's not the character that matters, it's the person who plays him. Denzel proved that.
Not entirely true otherwise DJT could have used Kano and achieved the same result? I dont think so. We are talking about Cyrax here....

I hate the lynch mob mentality here, people calling PL stupid. He might just have a point. What if we have been giving Kabal, way, WAY too much respect? Is it simply laziness and no one wants to grind the match out. I mean, take Kabal off rooftop and is he really that deadly? My God also gave Kabal a mauling with Sonya once he selected The Pit. I mean jeeze, we saw MIT beat Detroits Kabal last year with Scorpion.

Kabals specials are good, and safer than mosts, but IAGB is also a curse. Yeah it builds crazy meter, it restricts movement, but it forever carries him to the wall where no one wants to be.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Just a thought - what if PL picks up Cyrax full time and starts beating 3 Kabal players each tournament at a time too? Will it just be a case of a great player overcoming a bad matchup still?
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
How come the community never came together and decided on one tourny stage that should be used at all times, a medium non laggy stage. All we've been seeing for years is pit and rooftop.
 
Not entirely true otherwise DJT could have used Kano and achieved the same result? I dont think so. We are talking about Cyrax here....

I hate the lynch mob mentality here, people calling PL stupid. He might just have a point. What if we have been giving Kabal, way, WAY too much respect? Is it simply laziness and no one wants to grind the match out. I mean, take Kabal off rooftop and is he really that deadly? My God also gave Kabal a mauling with Sonya once he selected The Pit. I mean jeeze, we saw MIT beat Detroits Kabal last year with Scorpion.

Kabals specials are good, and safer than mosts, but IAGB is also a curse. Yeah it builds crazy meter, it restricts movement, but it forever carries him to the wall where no one wants to be.
I agree that kabal's biggest weakness is when he gets cornered, that is where he gets wrecked.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
How come the community never came together and decided on one tourny stage that should be used at all times, a medium non laggy stage. All we've been seeing for years is pit and rooftop.
The same way community never came together and ban Kabal from tournaments, thou everybody knew hes was broken or any other broken character for that matter.

I agree that kabal's biggest weakness is when he gets cornered, that is where he gets wrecked.
That's not really his weakness, most characters gets wrecked in the corner.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Not entirely true otherwise DJT could have used Kano and achieved the same result? I dont think so. We are talking about Cyrax here....

I hate the lynch mob mentality here, people calling PL stupid. He might just have a point. What if we have been giving Kabal, way, WAY too much respect? Is it simply laziness and no one wants to grind the match out. I mean, take Kabal off rooftop and is he really that deadly? My God also gave Kabal a mauling with Sonya once he selected The Pit. I mean jeeze, we saw MIT beat Detroits Kabal last year with Scorpion.

Kabals specials are good, and safer than mosts, but IAGB is also a curse. Yeah it builds crazy meter, it restricts movement, but it forever carries him to the wall where no one wants to be.
No. Players like myself grinded the kabal matchup everyday for a year and a half against good kabals (Kevo da man in his prime, Ermacio who elminated GGA Han at NEC, etc), the character is just THAT good. Almost every situation is in his favor, no matter how patient you are. DJT just made amazing reads. Even after I grinded the matchup for that long, I went up against Reo and while I put up a good fight, i managed to get it close because I guessed right like 20 times in a row. Then I was wrong 2 times, and got blown up. Then Curbo destroyed me next tournament because he read right way more. The fact of the matter is, this is not a matchup knowledge problem. Do you really think all these top players are really that dumb. No! Kabal has control of the match at all times at the highest possible leel and you have to put your life bar on the line over and over again to get anything done. To say it is laziness is insulting to many players who have put weeks and weeks and weeks into practicing this matchup nonstop.

The fact is, when kabal is beaten, its because the player out played the kabal player to a large extent. Not that they have some secret matchup knowledge that no one knew.
 

Flagg

Champion
Courtyard and Khans arena. I know people complain about Rooftop but I can also see why some people would hate The Pit as well.

I really, really wish we could just do what other fighting games do and just run with random select stage. This stage picking nonsense is pathetic. No one else does it, just MK.

Stone, paper, scissors? This is MK, not a freaking kindergarten game. Im not surprised My God in the end decided to just toss a coin.
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
....Fuck no

I'm not even going to dignify that statement with an explanation.
 

Flagg

Champion
No. Players like myself grinded the kabal matchup everyday for a year and a half against good kabals (Kevo da man in his prime, Ermacio who elminated GGA Han at NEC, etc), the character is just THAT good. Almost every situation is in his favor, no matter how patient you are. DJT just made amazing reads. Even after I grinded the matchup for that long, I went up against Reo and while I put up a good fight, i managed to get it close because I guessed right like 20 times in a row. Then I was wrong 2 times, and got blown up. Then Curbo destroyed me next tournament because he read right way more. The fact of the matter is, this is not a matchup knowledge problem. Do you really think all these top players are really that dumb. No! Kabal has control of the match at all times at the highest possible leel and you have to put your life bar on the line over and over again to get anything done. To say it is laziness is insulting to many players who have put weeks and weeks and weeks into practicing this matchup nonstop.

The fact is, when kabal is beaten, its because the player out played the kabal player to a large extent. Not that they have some secret matchup knowledge that no one knew.
DJT plowed through several Kabals. You make it sound almost like "yeah, he played his socks out, but his reads were good". Sure sounds like guess work?

Why take offence. Perhaps DJT is, I dont know, just better than you?
 
The same way community never came together and ban Kabal from tournaments, thou everybody knew hes was broken or any other broken character for that matter.



That's not really his weakness, most characters gets wrecked in the corner.
well I just meant how he goes backwards when he zones with iagb. But really, he has no glaring weakness, he can do everything well.
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
Cyrax's matchups are very good, but they're not as good as Kabal's, and despite EVO he loses to Kabal. On paper and historically it's a horrible MU, but DJT played it extremely well.

Kabal is #1, PL is reactionary, him saying this doesn't surprise me.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
DJT plowed through several Kabals. You make it sound almost like "yeah, he played his socks out, but his reads were good". Sure sounds like guess work?

Why take offence. Perhaps DJT is, I dont know, just better than you?
DJT is better than me. He reads opponents very well ( which is what good players do), thats what i am saying. But that has nothing to do with players being lazy and not learning how to fight the kabal mu. That has to do with him making the correct reads over and over again to beat top kabals. I just want to make it clear that the part of your statement I was offended by was the statement about laziness.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Kabal is still number 1. You just have to put in the time. Cyrax 2, Kenshi 3, Sonya 4, Freddy 5. Kung Lao is not top 5 anymore.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Why take offence. Perhaps DJT is, I dont know, just better than you?
Very foreign concept on TYM sadly.

If anyone has reasons to throw around 8-2, 7-3 matchup claims like the plague against Cyrax, you can put me at the top of that list. However, I respect that it could be that Mustard and F0xy are better players than me and have won majors before I was around at PND.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
There is no way that Cyrax is better than Kabal.

It`s not DJT`s fault that Kabal players are still doing F4 NDC thinking they won`t get blown up. He did what everyone is supposed to be doing. While most people just throw out a random D1 to interrupt Kabal, he did the smart thing and interrupted with standing 1 into combo. I mean if you`re going to try to interrupt, go for it. Learn the NDC frame data and combo that fool.
 

Flagg

Champion
DJT is better than me. He reads opponents very well ( which is what good players do), thats what i am saying. But that has nothing to do with players being lazy and not learning how to fight the kabal mu. That has to do with him making the correct reads over and over again to beat top kabals.
So what's stopping everyone doing that? Kabal isn't easy to pick up, but you see people do it. So if thats possible, its possible for EVERYONE to play like that against him? What do you think is harder, playing against Kabal with your main or trying to main Kabal?

If KevoDaMan was there, im sure DJT would have dealt with him as well.

We've seen a Scorpion and a Mileena eliminate top Kabals before, in big Majors and one of them was a Grand Final. Pretty sure SonicFox unofficially retired KevoDaMan, not that anyone will really miss that guy. Man Jax used to be known as the Kabal killer and im pretty sure still gives him trouble. And doesnt 16 Bit have a perfect record of Kitana vs Kabal in all matches he's played REO in?
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Very foreign concept on TYM sadly.

If anyone has reasons to throw around 8-2, 7-3 matchup claims like the plague against Cyrax, you can put me at the top of that list. However, I respect that it could be that Mustard and F0xy are better players than me and have won majors before I was around at PND.
I wasn't saying that I was as good as DJT at all. I was saying that he won because he outplayed reo and detroit and all the kabals he played and overcame the matchup, which is tough. Probably 6-4 or 7-3, depending on stage. I was just saying that it isn't actually bad for cyrax and that players are just lazy is disrespectful to a lot of people.