Patch Update: Reptile has Armor on Ex-slide

[THTB]

Haha, I wish I could drive out there, but I live in Ohio, so it's a no-go.

Nick, I outlined why the armor buff is good. Some characters do not have an armor move for dealing with frame traps that not even 6-frame moves will help with aside from X-Ray. Reptile, Noob, Sindel, Ermac, etc.

 

[Nick T.]

Nick, I outlined why the armor buff is good. Some characters do not have an armor move for dealing with frame traps that not even 6-frame moves will help with aside from X-Ray. Reptile, Noob, Sindel, Ermac, etc.

I read that and I totally understand that. It just seems like an easy way out of things. Instead of people figuring out practical ways, like jumping out at the right time, or trying to time a throw tech to reset spacing/situation, people just want armor, and this mentality is really annoying.

For example, I'm a Sub player, and I totally think that him getting armor on his slide is unnecessary. Just throwing that out there first. So I was playing McNasty a couple of weeks ago after not playing for about 3 weeks(I think) because of school. So I kinda forgot how to play haha.
He picked Cage and skip ahead a bit, I got caught in F32 frame traps. Well instead of saying "AHH SHIT I WANT ARMOR." I sat there and figured my shit out, and jumped out at the right time from noticing he would do low 3 after the F32.

My point is that instead of figuring shit out you have a bunch of shitty players crying for buffs. Which is what happened with SF4 and now it's even worse of a game than it was before. Do you want that to happen to MK? or do you want it and the strategies to evolve past, frame trap, guess, punish. Don't you want players in your community to have to think about their punishes and responses to situations. Fuck maybe I'm too old for this shit. :-(

 

[Truth]

I like how NRS is balancing the game a lot of people are very quick to judge when it comes to buffs & nerfs because people automatically assume it alters the game dramatically. For instance when people were saying Reptile's damage got nerfed everyone started complaining. With the next patch characters who are getting armor on their specials like SZ, Reptile, and so forth doesn't automatically translate into winning matches. For ex: I as a SZ player had trouble playing characters who could shatter through my clones like Cage, Jax, etc. Their armored moves made me hesitant to do anything after a clone so what I learn to do is bait those moves & punish.

In the end it comes to adapting and not being predictable, but at high level it really comes down to meter management. You can't win games simply by wasting your meter on armored specials if that's your only way to approach your bad matchups. Oh btw Teef there was a good Kung Lao player at NRS tourney and from what I saw he still looks and plays like a top teir character; I'm pretty positive that a good Kung Lao like Perfectlegend, Classy, Brady, etc could still play effectively at the highest level if they put the time in.

 

[THTB]

I want this game to evolve, for sure. But I'll be honest, some changes are a necessity. This is kinda one of them. It's not so much an easy solution as learning it. Frame advantage in a game where normals do chip damage is much, much, much more scary than in a game where normals don't do that.

 

[kandehbar]

Yeh I think reptile needed the armor. I mean they made his dash on block more punishable even though it was really easy to punish in the first place

 

[Nick T.]

I want this game to evolve, for sure. But I'll be honest, some changes are a necessity. This is kinda one of them. It's not so much an easy solution as learning it. Frame advantage in a game where normals do chip damage is much, much, much more scary than in a game where normals don't do that.

True but it comes down to analyzing the situation for what it is, and it's just that, chip damage.

I don't know the exact #s, but let's say for shits and giggles that F32 (just example since I was talking about Cage before), does 4% chip, add in a D3 for 0%, the situation still forces a guess but if you just manage to jump out or land a D1, you reset the situation in your favor with a full combo(jump in, or chip damage situation with throw potential), or 5% damage from the first 2 hits before breaker, then the Cage player chooses to breaker, they lose potential 30% damage minimum(It's an average number) within that situation. So it sounds like an even trade to me. You take anywhere from 4% - 12% between guesses, and still having the option to tech and reset spacing doesn't seem that bad to me.

People just aren't looking close enough at the situations is my point.

 

[Sabin]

Reptile got buffed if you ask me. the ex slide will help him in some tight situations. And now noone can complain about being unable to punish dash.
damage reduction i guess is warranted cause itll be slightly easier for him to get in now, as well as escape sticky situations (like frame traps which he has no answer to.)

i havent watched the mileena/reptile matches again from NRS but did anyone notice a change in reptiles hitbox in that matchup? does he still get jailed?

 

[xxteefxx]

Hey arturo...apparently actually. Mil is still Mil

in general to everyone:
also, the frame trap were reptile cant escape with Elbow dash are VERY few! i mean VERY few (give examples and we can discuss it for sure).... i see the slide as an extra Buff thats all, which will actually makes rep a better score and more sided to reptile in some matches to be honest (AGAIN! sektor will be really pissed)
the elbow dash recovery...ehh, doin a dash and it being blocked means a lot of stuff! so basically good reptile dont do such risky situation in general at all

the damage doesnt bother me...THOUGH, i have to see it bein played first, as well as in comparison to the rest of the roaster.

also Arturo, u coming to Salty battle this coming friday man?

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Alright wtf is goin on in here :S

First off, EX slide is a GREAT tool...something i've never expected and as well as cherish such a thing. This slide EX will actually help a LOT against plenty of Okizeme Set ups and traps (Shang in corner, Kenshi's armor moves...etc) , help Massively against projectile matches which is AMAZINGLY useful(mil,sektor,Noob...etc). This alone, will actually help in the something like, sektor matchup in a STUPID way! it's an actual match turner for reptile in such a match!

so yes,this is a great news!

secondly, Elbow dash...pfft ya, now we will be easily punished by ANYTHING and everything...though, it doesnt bother me that much at all! high level play, u dont do a blocked elbow dash/ waste or useless elbow dash....u do it, then simply quit reptile and take a shortcut

PS: JHCRANE 14 no , -20 and above is easily punishable by literly everything in the game... so after a blocked elbow dash in the new patch, opponent can really do whatever he wants. though, this doesnt look like -21 at all...though if ur sure bout the -21 then it's punishable by anythign in the game after blocking

the damage nerf....third and most and final point. Yea...it's pretty bad. that wont stop me from playin reptile, instead will actually encourage me.
here are pin points to note

-EX dash does 17% currently. new patch is does 12%
-1,2,2~ex dash does 25% in the new patch, while in the old patch it does 22% O_O ....? did they play with EX dash out scaling maybe?
-at 1:50 reptile did air 3,2~fb, 3,2~fb, 3 = 18% in new patch. this does 23% currently

so in general...reptile got damage nerf on every TC and combo ability in general. Though it looks like EX dash scales more in combos (which is useless in combos actually :S lol)


will any of the damage nerf affect reptile play style? or that hinders him?

will a little bit, but reptile is not about his damaging combos ...it's about his pressure, Okizeme, Mix ups and setups, and Manuevering/escapes/frame traps.

just again...be patient. we will see. calm ur horses! lol


PS: long live rep ^_^ i am so happy i swear lol

Hey Teef, are you sure about EX elbow dash doing 12% damage in the new patch. His regular dash does 11% so now if his EX dash does 12% that is a shame.

The -21 frames on a blocked elbow dash I had read somewhere on here. I cannot confirm that.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

ohh no problem man, ty actually for replyin as well
and pretty much i agree, BASED on if they also toned down some specific chars as well to be honest...but in general, i dont see the damage reptile does is the REASON he wins at all.....reptile is a very technical character, that's why he dominate in his game play

Very true, but the nerf is still disappointing even if we get armor on the EX slide.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

You don't need an almost full screen attack to get you out of pressure. If that was the goal it should have been on the EX Spit.

 

[Sabin]

Hey arturo...apparently actually. Mil is still Mil

in general to everyone:
also, the frame trap were reptile cant escape with Elbow dash are VERY few! i mean VERY few (give examples and we can discuss it for sure).... i see the slide as an extra Buff thats all, which will actually makes rep a better score and more sided to reptile in some matches to be honest (AGAIN! sektor will be really pissed)
the elbow dash recovery...ehh, doin a dash and it being blocked means a lot of stuff! so basically good reptile dont do such risky situation in general at all

the damage doesnt bother me...THOUGH, i have to see it bein played first, as well as in comparison to the rest of the roaster.

also Arturo, u coming to Salty battle this coming friday man?

yeah i will try to head to SB next week. as for your general comment, while elbow dash can be used to escape frame traps and ur right..cause of the way the game works (no trades) there is a possiblity for your interrupt to get beat, especially b/c of the way coming out of blockstun works..which can and does happen all the time. at least with ex slide it will be 100% guaranteed punish if opponent commits.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

En slide to escape frame traps?

Well now Reptile will experience the bug where you try to do an en move and you end up blocking, but still waste a bar of meter.

 

[Sabin]

That happened to me even before the patch.

 

[xxteefxx]

yeah i will try to head to SB next week. as for your general comment, while elbow dash can be used to escape frame traps and ur right..cause of the way the game works (no trades) there is a possiblity for your interrupt to get beat, especially b/c of the way coming out of blockstun works..which can and does happen all the time. at least with ex slide it will be 100% guaranteed punish if opponent commits.

hey man. No u have to Arturo! lol...it will be great to fight u. Specially that i am looking for top notch reptile players for some kenshi battle and as well as get to know u for sure
so far from wut i know, cd brothers will be their, Chris G, Check, Jimmy,NYC TK, Swifttomhanks, Ac1984,Ezail.....lots of people to be honest.as well TOm said he might consider attending i presume? will for sure be fun to meet u and talk to u (which i didnt have the chance in SJ5)

as for the frame traps. It's true, the move doesnt have invincibility Starter or any active invincibility frames. Pokes can catch it fast and what not. so sure, as on paper i agree on wut u said to be honest. EX slide will be wonderful for such situation, specially something like non Puddle Reset from subzero, will be much safer to escape with a slide rather than a dash/poke....etc

thnx man and keep in touch



Boys:

hmm , this is not a bug.... this is more of an Option select Block. u can actually use this for ur favor as well.
also, it depends on the move speed starter for this OS to happen on armor move. Slide ex is a 12 framer...compared to someone like Kenshi, Kenshi's EX RK (14 framer) will always Comes out due to armor Property and the hurtbox....so something like that is hard to identify for now

 

[CitizenSnips]

I might be able to go to Salty Battles depending on what time Eaziel is leaving Baltimore. I have class from 11-11:50am so if Eaziel leaves then and we can make it there on time then I should be able to go. Also, teef, that video up yet?

So when is this patch supposed to come out... I'm assuming in a week or two?

 

[Theme]

En slide to escape frame traps?

Well now Reptile will experience the bug where you try to do an en move and you end up blocking, but still waste a bar of meter.

I have experienced this over and over.. Is this problem specifically only for Reptile? That shit is sooooo annoying. At first I thought my mind was playing tricks on me. Reptile doesnt flash green or anything when this happens, it just takes a bar and he takes the damage or combo.

 

[dribirut]

I have experienced this over and over.. Is this problem specifically only for Reptile? That shit is sooooo annoying. At first I thought my mind was playing tricks on me. Reptile doesnt flash green or anything when this happens, it just takes a bar and he takes the damage or combo.

When it flashes green but nothing comes out, is that the same thing but slower?

 

[xxteefxx]

Alright, thnx to Pimpugi for lettin me aware of my input mistake. here's the post, just in case u guys didnt notice.
reptile did actually get buffed, and damage still the same.... very interesting and relieving ^_^

Dear Pimp:

i first read ur post and i was like...wtf? i just tested those stuff today with my own hands. it's impossible to be in accurate. and then it occured to me that i completely forgot something! Sfb damage is lower than Ffb damage!
so it scales differently upon use on which FB is used for to either scale higher or lower.

thank you for clarifying this for us, and ty for letting me be aware of my testing mistake.

now simply put, Reptile just got buffed

though i must say, though are the only noted two things from the two matches of reptile (starting moment 1:50:00)


-Claryfication of damage scaling Change

A)
@ moment 1:55:25
Reptile did f+2,b+1

The damage is stil shows as 7%.
this is a bug, i dont know if it's fixed yet or not :S. in training mode, it shows damage done as 3% and 5% on first and second hit respectively. so it's one of those training bug. dont know if something like that is fixed or not tell now


B)
at a moment, reptile did Elbow dash
the patch damage was 13%
current patch is 17%

so that's the only thing i can see, and test

 

[Truth]

Now that the damage nerf has been proven to be false, how much better does Reptile become? He now gets an armored move that is only being compensated by a slightly more punishable elbow dash. In my opinion, I think Reptile doesn't move up or down on any so called tier list because of 2 things: 1. Elbow dash at high level play would and should always be punished. 2. Even if Reptile gets an armored move it's not like he trouble escaping pressure/frame traps because his dash was a 5 frame move. Sure, the ex-slide makes it more safer to escape such pressure/frame traps but you always could have elbowed dash and it costs meter.

 

[PimpUigi]

EX armor slide is good because they removed the ability for Elbow Dash to be a wakeup attack, thus it had no invincibility on wakeup like all special moves have, meaning it couldn't go through special moves.

Initially people got to wakeup EX elbow dash through projectiles for 17% damage into slide for 23% damage or corner combo for 36% damage...
EX armor slide is preferable to that, right???

 

[Truth]

EX armor slide is good because they removed the ability for Elbow Dash to be a wakeup attack, thus it had no invincibility on wakeup like all special moves have, meaning it couldn't go through special moves.

Initially people got to wakeup EX elbow dash through projectiles for 17% damage into slide for 23% damage or corner combo for 36% damage...
EX armor slide is preferable to that, right???

I not too sure about that because I play Reptile as my secondary and off a knockdown I am able to get up and quickly do an elbow dash. Or what most people do is tech roll into elbow dash. Granted these aren't "true" wake up attacks, but using ex-slide just doesn't seem worth it because more than likely you can have just done regular wake-up slide if the opponent is even using a projectile since not many characters have low projectiles. I could see it being helpful if the projectile is something like a Noob Saibot clone but even if you're going to do ex-slide from half screen it could probably be read and punished badly versus a competent zoner.

 

[PimpUigi]

The point is he has something vs stuff like Kabal's saw blade which is going to hit you out of wakeup attacks.
Elbow dash has no invulnerability, so it gets hit on wakeup by saw blade, so it's a safe wakeup pressure tool against Reptile, since slide takes way more than 6 frames to get to Kabal, it's a good choice to pressure Reptile with.

This wasn't a problem when Elbow Dash was able to count as a wakeup attack, but that was arguably broken is what my point is.
Invincible wakeup attack to 36% corner combo and 23% midscreen????

Sounds not as bad as Kabal's invincible wakeup EX spin though...
Not even super armor. Full invincibility for all active frames. Of course it's full combo punishable though.

 

[Truth]

The point is he has something vs stuff like Kabal's saw blade which is going to hit you out of wakeup attacks.
Elbow dash has no invulnerability, so it gets hit on wakeup by saw blade, so it's a safe wakeup pressure tool against Reptile, since slide takes way more than 6 frames to get to Kabal, it's a good choice to pressure Reptile with.

This wasn't a problem when Elbow Dash was able to count as a wakeup attack, but that was arguably broken is what my point is.
Invincible wakeup attack to 36% corner combo and 23% midscreen????

Sounds not as bad as Kabal's invincible wakeup EX spin though...
Not even super armor. Full invincibility for all active frames. Of course it's full combo punishable though.

I understand what you're saying it gives Reptile a counter off a knockdown against low projectiles, but I think in the Kabal match-up if you are knockdowned at sweep range you could attempt to jump if you predict Kabal's ground blade. However, fighting Kabal is always a guessing game because even you jump on Kabal he could iAF for a combo. I'm wondering does Reptile's slide have similar AA properties like Sub-Zero's slide? For example: If you jump backwards against SZ a slide is guranteed.

 

[Felix]

Oh.. I must have been playing the patched version. I've went through subs ice clone loads.