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PATCH TIME BOYZ!...2.0

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
And I've seen Swamp Thing mains beat the living crap out of Black Adam players.
Just because someone like swamp thing beats someone like black Adam doesn't mean the character isn't bad/good. It just shows the player got outplayed. Swamp thing is bad and Black Adam is good. Period.
No one thought Darkseid was any good until he started using him
No. Darkseid was already in the top 5 discussion. Sonic just made it more believable.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Fair assessment, really. That being said, I honestly don't think that the so-called lower-tier characters are so far below that people need to scream "nerf" for higher characters. I honestly think that is Sonic decided to make Joker his main and practiced with him non-stop, he be damn near invincible. It's not like when he lost with Joker that he got totally dominated. And I've seen Swamp Thing mains beat the living crap out of Black Adam players.

And let's be real here, Sonic Fox using Joker would probably beat that crap out of most people who play the game.

I'm not denying that some characters are better than others. But your not playing the game Per Se, you're playing the player.




I have. Wonder Woman is considered so-called mid-tier at best, yet I've been having a blast with her. Hell, I doubt most people with high-tier characters like Adam, Supers or Aquaman can deal with Akromaniac's Wonder Woman, despite her being a lower tier character.

Nice conversation by the way. Appreciate your insight on things.
Serious question, is this your first fighting game?
 

chores

bad at things
Fair assessment, really. That being said, I honestly don't think that the so-called lower-tier characters are so far below that people need to scream "nerf" for higher characters. I honestly think that is Sonic decided to make Joker his main and practiced with him non-stop, he be damn near invincible. It's not like when he lost with Joker that he got totally dominated. And I've seen Swamp Thing mains beat the living crap out of Black Adam players.

And let's be real here, Sonic Fox using Joker would probably beat that crap out of most people who play the game.

I'm not denying that some characters are better than others. But your not playing the game Per Se, you're playing the player.




I have. Wonder Woman is considered so-called mid-tier at best, yet I've been having a blast with her. Hell, I doubt most people with high-tier characters like Adam, Supers or Aquaman can deal with Akromaniac's Wonder Woman, despite her being a lower tier character.

Nice conversation by the way. Appreciate your insight on things.

this seems like a really superficial understanding of what this thread is actually about. like you would say 'batmans jump 2 is not that strong because the opponent has the option to simply antiair him' type shit

of course sonicfox would beat most people with a bad character. this is like if we were in a thread about the best basketball shoes and you said that kevin durant would beat a rec league player wearing flip flops. it is obvious and doesnt really speak to anything regarding the discussion at hand.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
I don't want the game to become unbalanced, but man I would love to see Swamp get the Bane treatment.

If they give him some much-needed frame buffs (F3/B3 startup, st.2 startup, recovery on B223/F233) plus any significant trait buffs he will be solid. If they also buff his mobility or damage.... he will be a monster.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
That's not quite true. We've seen Sonic use other characters that weren't considered top-tier like Joker and Darkseid. No one thought Darkseid was any good until he started using him. No one thought Scarecrow was viable until Whiteboi won with him. These guys don't always use the so-called top tier, yet they still win regardless.

I admire that.
Darkseid was top tier from day one. Joker, yes he's used him. Hell I think he used every MKX character at one point. But you won't see him using him in big tourneys when his tournament life is on the line. Wasn't playing Joker against Slayer at CEO. And you sure won't see Joker with his tourney life on the line at evo. Just about every relevant Ermac player from MKX loves scarecrow. BxA Ragnarok, Big D, Beyond Toxin, etc. They wouldn't be wasting their time on a character they didn't feel was strong.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Fair assessment, really. That being said, I honestly don't think that the so-called lower-tier characters are so far below that people need to scream "nerf" for higher characters. I honestly think that is Sonic decided to make Joker his main and practiced with him non-stop, he be damn near invincible. It's not like when he lost with Joker that he got totally dominated. And I've seen Swamp Thing mains beat the living crap out of Black Adam players.

And let's be real here, Sonic Fox using Joker would probably beat that crap out of most people who play the game.

I'm not denying that some characters are better than others. But your not playing the game Per Se, you're playing the player.




I have. Wonder Woman is considered so-called mid-tier at best, yet I've been having a blast with her. Hell, I doubt most people with high-tier characters like Adam, Supers or Aquaman can deal with Akromaniac's Wonder Woman, despite her being a lower tier character.

Nice conversation by the way. Appreciate your insight on things.
But see, here's where your wrong. You are commenting on joker as if you know how to use him, let alone the MU. I comment on top tier characters because I use the Joker and I play against them all the time verse my friends and randoms. Sonic fox loves using joker. He stated it multiple times. The problem with joker is, he isn't viable. Any joker player, much like any character in the game, can obliterate you easily if you don't know the MU. Sonic fox is by all means a great player but even he knows that joker is not strong enough to be considered as tournament material, otherwise, he would use him. If the joker won a legit tournament, it's because nobody knew the mu. Why do you think joker has never seen a top 8 at a major at all?

The greatest player could use the worse characters in the game vs an opponent of equal or near equal skill using one of the best characters in the game and if they both know the MU and character exploits, the player with the better character will most likely win. Why? Because the worst character in the game has way too many faults and the best character in the game has nowhere near as many and can exploit the weaker character easily, making it a game of cat and mouse.

In other words, let's reference a car here:

Black Adam is the driver
Joker is the passenger

Black Adam automatically has control over the wheel from the time the car starts, while joker can give him trouble in the car ride, ultimately black Adam will decide where they will be going.

You feel me?

Sonic fox at the end of the day is just a man. He loses all the same as we do. Joker would not make him invincible once people know the MU. He would struggle and his wins will be completely read-based and the risk-reward benefit will succumb to luck, especially if he's fighting a black adam. Now sonic fox with a black adam... he's damn near invincible. Why? Because the character is strong already and the person using him is smart.

Strong character/smart player= near invincible with a better chance at winning

Weak character/smart player= calculating risk-reward benefits and probabilities, heavy reads and luck equals wins.

If you were to just start this game and read this and you wanted to do nothing but win, where would you start? Low tier or high tier?
 
IMO if they toned down top 10 or even top 5 and the rest of the cast except for the obvious charecters would pretty much fall into there places I don't wanna see for example black Adam get Scorp treatment swamp thing get bane treatment and then that mu goes from bad for st to even worse for Adam balance is key for this games survival I juss don't generally like how nrs can go a bit over board with buffs n nerfs take time think an listen to what ppl are saying
 
Just because someone like swamp thing beats someone like black Adam doesn't mean the character isn't bad/good. It just shows the player got outplayed.
Which has been one of my main points since the beginning. Thank you for pointing this out to others.

Swamp thing is bad and Black Adam is good. Period.
This makes no sense if a Swamp Thing player is constantly beating a Black Adam player. He'd look at you as though you're nuts.



No. Darkseid was already in the top 5 discussion. Sonic just made it more believable.
Uh, nooooo.
Hes wasn't seen on ANYBODY'S list until Sonic put him on the map.
 

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
Did NRS ever say they're going to do a balance patch after EVO? Seems like they may even wait until September until after the pro circuit is over at this rate before having a huge balance change.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Which has been one of my main points since the beginning. Thank you for pointing this out to others.



This makes no sense if a Swamp Thing player is constantly beating a Black Adam player. He'd look at you as though you're nuts.





Uh, nooooo.
Hes wasn't seen on ANYBODY'S list until Sonic put him on the map.
It makes perfect sense. There are bad characters and there are good characters. There are bad MUs and there are good MUs.

Swamp thing is bad. Black Adam is good. Black Adam beats swamp thing.

Just because the swamp player is winning does not mean black Adam is bad, swamp thing is good or it's a good MU for swamp. He's just outplaying his opponent. We've seen it time and time again how someone lost to a MU that was in their favor or used to a top tier and lost to a low tier. I can give MULITPLE examples.

And he was definitely in the top 5 discussion. Idk where you were but it was definitely talked about.
 
Serious question, is this your first fighting game?
*sigh* This was asked by @alkipot earlier. Obviously you missed it. Here.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

alkipot said:
... is this your first time playing a fighting game by chance? Nothing wrong with that, your answers just have me curious...


Me---
Yeah. I have another post her on the forum where I introduced myself and stated I'm new to the FCG. I normally play Marvel Heroes on my Mac and have played WoW back in the day.

Most people here have been very helpful and nice to me, giving me advice such as @Espio, @Clark L. and @Juggs, just to name a few.

My personal take on life in general is not to whine about things I don't like but to do something about it. That's why I highly videos of, say, Sonic fox using Joker to whup @$$ or Whiteboy taking Scarecrow and showing how it's done. They see the strengths of so-called lower-tier characters and show us how to use them to their fullest potential.

@Juggs showed me an article here on this website that was made in 2011 and is still germane to this day.

I'm not looking to to nerf anyone's character, be it Deadshot, Superman, Catwoman, etc. I'd just rather play the hand I'm dealt and have a good time doing so.

....
 
this seems like a really superficial understanding of what this thread is actually about. like you would say 'batmans jump 2 is not that strong because the opponent has the option to simply antiair him' type shit

of course sonicfox would beat most people with a bad character. this is like if we were in a thread about the best basketball shoes and you said that kevin durant would beat a rec league player wearing flip flops. it is obvious and doesnt really speak to anything regarding the discussion at hand.
Sure it does. As to why, re-read my previous responses.....
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Which has been one of my main points since the beginning. Thank you for pointing this out to others.



This makes no sense if a Swamp Thing player is constantly beating a Black Adam player. He'd look at you as though you're nuts.





Uh, nooooo.
Hes wasn't seen on ANYBODY'S list until Sonic put him on the map.
You misunderstood. He's saying a good swamp thing can beat a bad black adam. Doesn't mean that swamp thing isn't in need of serious buffs, and black adam doesn't need to get hit with the nerf bat. If the best Black Adam in the world went against the best Swamp thing in the world, Swamp Thing would be obliterated. Over and over.
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
How is anyone saying Darkseid was on no ones radar til Sonic? Anyone who plays fighting games and can recognize superior tools knew otherwise.

In a game where projectiles and neutral is king, you don't think people noticed a character with a fast beam, full screen mixups, teleport high/low game and high damage wouldn't be at least decent?
 
But see, here's where your wrong. You are commenting on joker as if you know how to use him, let alone the MU. I comment on top tier characters because I use the Joker and I play against them all the time verse my friends and randoms. Sonic fox loves using joker. He stated it multiple times. The problem with joker is, he isn't viable. Any joker player, much like any character in the game, can obliterate you easily if you don't know the MU. Sonic fox is by all means a great player but even he knows that joker is not strong enough to be considered as tournament material, otherwise, he would use him. If the joker won a legit tournament, it's because nobody knew the mu. Why do you think joker has never seen a top 8 at a major at all?

The greatest player could use the worse characters in the game vs an opponent of equal or near equal skill using one of the best characters in the game and if they both know the MU and character exploits, the player with the better character will most likely win. Why? Because the worst character in the game has way too many faults and the best character in the game has nowhere near as many and can exploit the weaker character easily, making it a game of cat and mouse.

In other words, let's reference a car here:

Black Adam is the driver
Joker is the passenger

Black Adam automatically has control over the wheel from the time the car starts, while joker can give him trouble in the car ride, ultimately black Adam will decide where they will be going.

You feel me?

Sonic fox at the end of the day is just a man. He loses all the same as we do. Joker would not make him invincible once people know the MU. He would struggle and his wins will be completely read-based and the risk-reward benefit will succumb to luck, especially if he's fighting a black adam. Now sonic fox with a black adam... he's damn near invincible. Why? Because the character is strong already and the person using him is smart.

Strong character/smart player= near invincible with a better chance at winning

Weak character/smart player= calculating risk-reward benefits and probabilities, heavy reads and luck equals wins.

If you were to just start this game and read this and you wanted to do nothing but win, where would you start? Low tier or high tier?
I'm not denying nor have I ever denied some characters may need buffs like Joker or Swamp Thing. I have NO problem with that. Nor have I denied that some characters are better than others. I just don't believe that the gap is so great that the top tier have to be nerfed as opposed to lower tier characters getiing fixed in weak areas.

C'mon man, are you telling me that if NRS fixed up your boy Joker like you wanted in a few various areas that he needs and gave him a very slight damage boost (but not in Adam's league) that Sonic wouldn't dominate the tournament scene with him? It's an honest question.
 

R_H_B

Noob
I think that a simple nerf to Black Adam's damage would be reasonable. Make batman's trait charge slower or have him start with one bat or no bats would be reasonable. Possibly make Aquaman's back 213 +1 or 0 on block. I think giving Ivy a 10 or even 12 frame d2 would be a reasonable buff for her. I play Ivy, Red Hood, Batman.
 
It makes perfect sense. There are bad characters and there are good characters. There are bad MUs and there are good MUs.

Swamp thing is bad. Black Adam is good. Black Adam beats swamp thing.

Just because the swamp player is winning does not mean black Adam is bad, swamp thing is good or it's a good MU for swamp. He's just outplaying his opponent.
You understand that underlined statement is what life is all about, right? This includes games as well. Possibly the most popular phrase of winners who play games, whether it be video, cards, board games is....

Don't play the game, play the player.

Top players do that, they don't whine about imbalances, I admire that in them.
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
Possibly make Aquaman's back 213 +1 or 0 on block..
make that shit negative he has another plus string that nobody uses he would be fine if it was - on block people would just be mad because theyd have to use their brains. it was -3 in the first game he was still stupid good.
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
Top players do that, they don't whine about imbalances, I admire that in them.
I'm just gonna chalk it up to you being new, but yes, top players do complain. They still play, but yes, they do complain. Chris G/Chris T/Nemo/Infiltration and many more have ALL complained.

Also, you shouldn't worship the ground someone walks on because they play a video game better than you.
 
You misunderstood. He's saying a good swamp thing can beat a bad black adam. Doesn't mean that swamp thing isn't in need of serious buffs, and black adam doesn't need to get hit with the nerf bat. If the best Black Adam in the world went against the best Swamp thing in the world, Swamp Thing would be obliterated. Over and over.
Yeah but you're going on the principle of most people skill being on equal footing. We both know that's far far from true, no matter what game is played.

I have no problem of lower tier characters getting buffed here and there. But to have someone's Deadshot get nerfed isn't necessarily that answer.

And I'll bring this up again, people have this habit of crying nerf of a character for sake of balance, but they won't address that character's weakness (NO character is perfect) to be buff either. If this part isn't addressed and left out, it's not real balance is it?
 

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
They'll fuck it up and nerf people into dust and then buff characters to the point where they'll replace the ones they nerf. There isn't a middle ground