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Patch suggestions for Sub-Zero

G11OST

Noob
Fair enough. Personally the argument for it is much stronger than against I think. Sub has a hard time opening people up and maybe he's not suppose to. Maybe they want him to stay a whiff punisher. But I think he needs it, because as of right now there is no way to enforce a threat with it.

Tom's strategy even in corner can get blown up by a d2 amongst some character's so the likelyhood of continuing pressure without ending up unsafe at some point is small.

Also hit confirming f22 is so needlessly tedious. It needs to be safe. He needs the command throw to compete I think. Whether it makes him braindead idc, he doesn't have his overhead anyway. The real question is, can we get scarecrow recovery frames for our command throw? Lol

I'm just spurring discussion. I can see both sides of the command grab discussion and just wanted to make the other side clear. Your posts just opened up the opportunity to do so, sorry if it seems I was picking on u lol, couldve been anyone. Not what I was trying to do.

I just hope his ice shatter gets what Tom said. I think that's the most important as of now.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Some of these changes are ridiculous..

At moooost I would change:

-All push back equal like tom wants but only Midscreen. Keep the corner how it is off of mb ice burst on block

- make mb ice ball startup like 7 frames faster

- make d1 ice burst on hit connect but stillll interruptible with a string on block.

And even this I feel is too much
 

G11OST

Noob
Some of these changes are ridiculous..

At moooost I would change:

-All push back equal like tom wants but only Midscreen. Keep the corner how it is off of mb ice burst on block

- make mb ice ball startup like 7 frames faster

- make d1 ice burst on hit connect but stillll interruptible with a string on block.

And even this I feel is too much

Reasons?
 

G11OST

Noob
Obviously I could be wrong but not pushback on mb ice burst in the corner would make him ridiculous.
Not really
He spends a meter gets plus frames
U can push block
Block follow up and punish
Armor through
And so on

It would be a strong tool but I don't see it being broken since it takes a meter and is only +3
 

haketh

Noob
Not really
He spends a meter gets plus frames
U can push block
Block follow up and punish
Armor through
And so on

It would be a strong tool but I don't see it being broken since it takes a meter and is only +3
And yeah Sub doesn't really build meter particularly well so it wouldn't be super OD

I still say making the CMD grab a mid hit but not a mid command grab would be fine, gives him a real punishment game on things -7 & makes the clone something to worry about.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Why are you obsessed with a d1 special that is safe, that they cannot poke in between? This is not the norm. Aquaman has you spoiled bro lol.
 
Why are you obsessed with a d1 special that is safe, that they cannot poke in between? This is not the norm. Aquaman has you spoiled bro lol.
A lot of this game evolves around d1 punishes/pressure. It's almost a universal punish in this game lol
 

haketh

Noob
Why are you obsessed with a d1 special that is safe, that they cannot poke in between? This is not the norm. Aquaman has you spoiled bro lol.
Tom only asked for D1xBurst which you can poke or backdash out of. On top of that most of the cast can do D1xSpecial for -7 punishes, even Ivy can if you spend one meter.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Not really
He spends a meter gets plus frames
U can push block
Block follow up and punish
Armor through
And so on

It would be a strong tool but I don't see it being broken since it takes a meter and is only +3
You completely forgot he has clone to compliment that pressure which is what makes it op imo
 

Tweedy

Noob
Tom only asked for D1xBurst which you can poke or backdash out of. On top of that most of the cast can do D1xSpecial for -7 punishes, even Ivy can if you spend one meter.
In the video he was saying that they should only be able to mb b3 d1 burst, not poke. That was said specifically.
 

kcd117

Noob
d1xx ice burst not working on hit is dumb. On block it would be nice to have a smaller gap so people can't just poke through it, it would help his meter building and give him a mindgame after d1 on block. F22 being safe is necessary in my opinion... i really don't understand nrs' -8/-9 bulshit... it seems like they are not sure if something should be safe or not and than they just throw the number there so some characters can get a good punish, some can get a shitty punish and some others can't punish at all. The pushback after ex burst kills his game, so thats the one thing they really need to address in this patch or sub is gonna stay unusable in a competitive environment. 33 string also needs to be fixed, it could be very useful to his game but it simply doesn't work at it's current state.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Agree with the d1-shatter on block/hit and f22 stuff, if they could normalize the pushback on mb db1 to be more consistent across the cast that would be fantastic.

@Tom Brady that u say leave command grab as is, wasn't the original "issue" the fact is doesn't really function as a command grab that the input should be changed to a df1 instead of dbf1 as was little need for it to have a command grab input if only used in juggles, would be such a nice QOL change
 

MkPeezy

Unicorn Papi
TLDR.
1. Command Grab. Make it a combo extender. No more command grab. Keep it a high or something. Change input. it sucks at a command grab.

2. EX Burst/Shoulder Remove pushback on the move so he can jail his moves on all the characters. If you fix this keep it at +3 at every range.

3. D1 Burst needs to connect on block and on hit. This would create a mind game with ex burst into d1. If the above is fixed. Lots of talk of this issue. Talks about make d1 burst have a gap but if you MB it it beats others poke options or something of that sort.

4. Make f22 safe or something. -5.

5. Talks about how people think sub needs a 50/50. Tricks into the clone. NRS didn't want mkx sub probably.

6. Fixes would help him be competitive. Someone from NRS pls listen to my dumb ideas *Quoting what Tom said*. Hopefully some ideas make it in.

Emo tom most of the video or tired tom.
If there was a hate or slap button I'd slap the sh** out your corny post... nothing to add to the discussion thats constructive or encourages a debate, just all toxic sh**. If you don't agree don't be a di** just spit your facts.... this community is passive aggressive as fu** smh
 
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G11OST

Noob
If there was a hate or slap button I'd slap the sh** out your corny post... nothing to add to the discussion thats constructive or encourages a debate, just all toxic sh**. If you don't agree don't be a di** just spit your facts.... this community is passive aggressive as fu** smh

I think he was just posting an overview of the video, at first Tom just posted the video by itself.......

... I got 5 on it?
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
If there was a hate or slap button I'd slap the sh** out your corny post... nothing to add to the discussion thats constructive or encourages a debate, just all toxic sh**. If you don't agree don't be a di** just spit your facts.... this community is passive aggressive as fu** smh
Lol what. I literally watched his video and put what he said into text for people who didn't have time to watch his video. I added maybe like 1 or 2 things
 


1. Change MB DB1 so Sub-Zero is always in D1 range no matter the distance the attack is blocked. Remove the ability to be mega + and have it always +3 no matter the range the attack was blocked. This applies to both open space and corner.

2. Allow D1~DB1 to combo on hit. On block it can still have a gap but only allows you to back dash and MB B3 (no longer allowing for normals to interrupt), this way SZ must spend meter or he gets punished.

3. Make F22 -4 or -5 instead of its current frame data of -8.


EDIT:
Re-recorded the vid because I'm too stupid to know that making command throw an attack gives SZ a d1~special that will lead to full combo.
lol