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Patch suggestions for Sub-Zero



1. Change MB DB1 so Sub-Zero is always in D1 range no matter the distance the attack is blocked. Remove the ability to be mega + and have it always +3 no matter the range the attack was blocked. This applies to both open space and corner.

2. Allow D1~DB1 to combo on hit. On block it can still have a gap but only allows you to back dash and MB B3 (no longer allowing for normals to interrupt), this way SZ must spend meter or he gets punished.

3. Make F22 -4 or -5 instead of its current frame data of -8.


EDIT:
Re-recorded the vid because I'm too stupid to know that making command throw an attack gives SZ a d1~special that will lead to full combo.
 
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Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
TLDR.
1. Command Grab. Make it a combo extender. No more command grab. Keep it a high or something. Change input. it sucks at a command grab.

2. EX Burst/Shoulder Remove pushback on the move so he can jail his moves on all the characters. If you fix this keep it at +3 at every range.

3. D1 Burst needs to connect on block and on hit. This would create a mind game with ex burst into d1. If the above is fixed. Lots of talk of this issue. Talks about make d1 burst have a gap but if you MB it it beats others poke options or something of that sort.

4. Make f22 safe or something. -5.

5. Talks about how people think sub needs a 50/50. Tricks into the clone. NRS didn't want mkx sub probably.

6. Fixes would help him be competitive. Someone from NRS pls listen to my dumb ideas *Quoting what Tom said*. Hopefully some ideas make it in.

Emo tom most of the video or tired tom.
 

DarksydeDash

With my best, I will defeat your best.
INB4 anyone bitches about asking for "buffs" the majority of what tom covers are serious issues that need to be addressed in the upcoming patch since NRS said they will not balance the game nearly as often. The person of this thread is to make sure Sub is not ignored just because he is a recent character added to the roster.
 
TLDR.
1. Command Grab. Make it a combo extender. No more command grab. Keep it a high or something. Change input. it sucks at a command grab.

2. EX Burst/Shoulder Remove pushback on the move so he can jail his moves on all the characters. If you fix this keep it at +3 at every range.

3. D1 Burst needs to connect on block and on hit. This would create a mind game with ex burst into d1. If the above is fixed. Lots of talk of this issue. Talks about make d1 burst have a gap but if you MB it it beats others poke options or something of that sort.

4. Make f22 safe or something. -5.

5. Talks about how people think sub needs a 50/50. Tricks into the clone. NRS didn't want mkx sub probably.

6. Fixes would help him be competitive. Someone from NRS pls listen to my dumb ideas *Quoting what Tom said*. Hopefully some ideas make it in.

Emo tom most of the video or tired tom.
D1 would not jail off +3. It would always be a mind game
 

G11OST

Noob
Why is everyone so against making a command throw an actual command throw? Honest question.

Other than scrub friendly and that b.s. what are legit reasons sub can't have this? It seems NRS wanted sub to have a command throw, it being in his tutorial and everything. I'd like to see them actually make it work as a command throw instead of just giving up on it.
 
Why is everyone so against making a command throw an actual command throw? Honest question.

Other than scrub friendly and that b.s. what are legit reasons sub can't have this? It seems NRS wanted sub to have a command throw, it being in his tutorial and everything. I'd like to see them actually make it work as a command throw instead of just giving up on it.
I now think it should stay as is. Making it a mid would be dumb because he would have a meterless way to combo in the corner by throwing you into the clone. He would be able to do that behind a clone and + frames whihc is too much.

If it became an attack then he could d1~spacial with a move that leads to full combo which would be too much.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized it should stay as is.
 
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Lokheit

Noob
Making the grab a high rather than a throw would already fix D1 not being able to connect into anything (it wouldn't be able to connect into the burst but you could combo for a bar if you hit) so that's fixing 2 things with an easy change!

That said I'm not sure they would change it, there are many command grabs in the game that shouldn't be command grabs as they have no utility so it seems to be some really weird design decission (my other character Ivy has basically the same grab Sub-Zero has with the same MB option and she can't mix it or anything, in her case it would also fix her D1 not comboing into anything).
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I knew that the patch wishlist for Sub would hit.

I will agree with all of them, but...

1) Make the Command Grab, known as Polar Puncture, a MID, so that it CAN grab both juggling and crouching characters. And change the fucking input. It's hard, and makes me success it 6/10.

2) Make the MB DB1, known as MB Frost Bomb, plus on recovery, so that Sub can grab his opponents with his D1s in the corner. It's weird that his opponents drop this instant at the corner and Sub recovers this fast, so fast that he could grab his opponents no problem.

3) Make the J2 + on start-up and - on active frames, respectively. I have noticed that his J2 is much slower than the MKX version, and makes it harder to land his attack properly.
 
sounds reasonable- what about the batman stuff you spoke of? played a hl sz last night and it feels 5-5 but im not exploiting the bats enough
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I agree with Tom's ideas. I would be able to live without them, but these changes do seem very fair, and yes if these changes would come, doing any change to the Command Grab will be too much.
 
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Shaka

Tier Whore.
It be nice if you could MB ice freeze on hit, kinda like Batman's grapple for better hit confirming.
 

haketh

Noob
I now think it should stay as is. Making it a mid would be dumb because he would have a meterless way to combo in the corner by throwing you into the clone. He would be able to do that behind a clone and + frames whihc is too much.

If it became an attack then he could d1~spacial with a move that leads to full combo which would be too much.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized it should stay as is.
Hmmmm it would only be a full combo with meter or in the corner with a clone which Sub should be good at & it's not like Sub has a super OD mixup game. It being a mid I don't think would make him super stupid, just stronger where he should be if someone disrespects his D1. It's not like Sub really builds meter super well with how sus his blockstrings are.
 

G11OST

Noob
I now think it should stay as is. Making it a mid would be dumb because he would have a meterless way to combo in the corner by throwing you into the clone. He would be able to do that behind a clone and + frames whihc is too much.

If it became an attack then he could d1~spacial with a move that leads to full combo which would be too much.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized it should stay as is.

Been thinking about this since I read it. What you're saying makes complete sense, if clone is out with plus frames from a knockdown, the opponents would either need to risk wakeup and getting punished or stand there and get thrown into clone. I see how this could be too much of a mind game.

Questions now tho, you need to have trait for this, so is it really that bad? Trait won't recharge during combo so you won't be able to loop it.

If it still too much why don't they just have clone disappear when command grab connects. Its not like this tech is being used currently, due to ducking the grab being a thing.
 
I like and want the changes. However I still don't see how it helps with some of these match ups he has. WoWo, Batman, and Aqua probably some others idk about, but he's just easily counter picked I think.