General/Other - Fisticuffs One year of Speedbag: The future of Fisticuffs Cage

[clear-headed]

I honestly feel like the whiffing "problem" for speedbag was intentional. The pushback that was added was to ensure that b1212... couldn't be easily spammed. Don't get me wrong, fisticuffs was nerfed pretty hard as a result of the pushback, but it basically means that he has to be more stamina reliant than before. He has to run to compensate for the pushback.

 

[ismael4790]

I honestly feel like the whiffing "problem" for speedbag was intentional. The pushback that was added was to ensure that b1212... couldn't be easily spammed. Don't get me wrong, fisticuffs was nerfed pretty hard as a result of the pushback, but it basically means that he has to be more stamina reliant than before. He has to run to compensate for the pushback.

I highly doubt those whiffs are intentional, considering that they happen randomly and in a different way depening on which character you are facing. If something like this is intentional...I'm done xD

The pushback increase, together with the frame nerf killed the variation. And good luck if you do runs after a stagger. That is a gimmicky tactic that is only going to work vs players with bad reactions or that don't know the matchup.

 

[jaylee777]

I think fisticuffs just needs a new string off of f3 (or something to make f3 more useful) and an ex version of the buff. Fisticuffs isnt really that horrible imo. Hes still one of the scarier characters to be in the corner against.

 

[ismael4790]

I think fisticuffs just needs a new string off of f3 (or something to make f3 more useful) and an ex version of the buff. Fisticuffs isnt really that horrible imo. Hes still one of the scarier characters to be in the corner against.

Today while playing as Jax, I thought they could add a db1 grab to fisticuffs, so he could make some strings as 113 or f3 safeish, as Jax does with 123~db1. That grab could be some kind of multi punch string, like a short version of his brutality. Besides useful, it would be cool and fit with the spirit of the variation, fist oriented.

Also, as you say, a new string off of f3 would be interesting. Maybe a string involving a low. Currently Fisticuffs makes the worst use of f3 by far.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Today while playing as Jax, I thought they could add a db1 command grab to fisticuffs, so he could make some strings as 113 or f3 safeish, as Jax does with 123~db1. That command grab could be some kind of multi punch string, like a short version of his brutality. Besides useful, it would be cool and fit with the spirit of the variation, fist oriented.

Also, as you say, a new string off of f3 would be interesting. Maybe a string involving a low. Currently Fisticuffs makes the worst use of f3 by far.

Jax's db1 isn't a command grab but I think that would be a nice addition to Fisticuffs. Either that or a command grab would be fine, and like I've said before, when I first saw Fisticuffs I thought hey with the Brass knuckles he's got he's gotta have a command grab where he beats the shit out of you using those but unfortunately NOPE.

 

[jaylee777]

Today while playing as Jax, I thought they could add a db1 command grab to fisticuffs, so he could make some strings as 113 or f3 safeish, as Jax does with 123~db1. That command grab could be some kind of multi punch string, like a short version of his brutality. Besides useful, it would be cool and fit with the spirit of the variation, fist oriented.

Also, as you say, a new string off of f3 would be interesting. Maybe a string involving a low. Currently Fisticuffs makes the worst use of f3 by far.

I think a command grab would honestly be too much lol. Especially if it could tick off of his standing 1 and his pokes. That would be pretty crazy. I was thinking more in the lines of a string off of f3 that could be hit confirmed into nut punch that is safe on block

 

[ismael4790]

Jax's db1 isn't a command grab but I think that would be a nice addition to Fisticuffs. Either that or a command grab would be fine, and like I've said before, when I first saw Fisticuffs I thought hey with the Brass knuckles he's got he's gotta have a command grab where he beats the shit out of you using those but unfortunately NOPE.

I think a command grab would honestly be too much lol. Especially if it could tick off of his standing 1 and his pokes. That would be pretty crazy. I was thinking more in the lines of a string off of f3 that could be hit confirmed into nut punch that is safe on block

Yeah, I don't know why I wrote command grab, edited xD

Just thinking about the exact kind of gotcha grab Jax has.

Yes, @jaylee777, that kind of string you talk about would help a lot the variation. Right now, to get a combo off f3 you need to commit into nutpunch or exnutpunch and get punished if blocked (or do f3~exforceball which is shit damage, or do f34 to 12%). To be able to hitconfirm off f3 would be great. Without meter he would get low damage anyway from f3, so the option wouldn't be as good as the ones A-List and SD get off f3, so it's not a crazy idea.

 

[Wigy]

B2 breaking armour with bump. As of right now it has 0 purpose

Doesnt lead to much but forces characters who have safe armour to make a read.

 

[Wigy]

Another issue with fisticuffs.

Someone does something negative, lets say -5

In a list, you get a f3 rc check which leads to good damage on hit and jail on block

Stunt double you get very little without clones up but lots with.

This is cause all johnnys moves except f3 are slow or crap range and high.

You cannot hitconfirm ballpunch so u blindly have to read if they will respect neg frames.

This is way more of an issue for fisticuffs for obvious reasons.

He needs somettthing

 

[Nedyrc]

How about giving fisticuffs a f24b12 string? f24 is an advancing move after all, adding speedbag to the f24 can do the job of f3 but better in fisticuffs

 

[GAV]

Let him switch sides mid b12 and extend the duration by lessening the pushback for a bar.

 

[ismael4790]

Another issue with fisticuffs.

Someone does something negative, lets say -5

In a list, you get a f3 rc check which leads to good damage on hit and jail on block

Stunt double you get very little without clones up but lots with.

This is cause all johnnys moves except f3 are slow or crap range and high.

You cannot hitconfirm ballpunch so u blindly have to read if they will respect neg frames.

This is way more of an issue for fisticuffs for obvious reasons.

He needs somettthing

Exactly. This is one of his major issues.

f3 is Cage's best normal and whiff punisher, but only in SD and A-List. In this variation he gets 12% as a safe option from f34, and if he wants more he HAS to commit to nutpunch or exnutpunch to get the damage, and they are full punish on block, so you usually might get punished for trying to punish. Without f3 there are LOTS of things you just can't punish.
Also, fisticuffs gets 0 pressure after f3 (A-List can start cancels, and SD his mimic pressure if he has them charged). He doesn't even get a safe fistbump charge off a f3 on block...

How about giving fisticuffs a f24b12 string? f24 is an advancing move after all, adding speedbag to the f24 can do the job of f3 but better in fisticuffs

It's a good idea, yeah!
But f3 still has more range and is faster than f2, they should give more utility to f3 for fisticuffs.

 

[Wigy]

Exactly. This is one of his major issues.

f3 is Cage's best normal and whiff punisher, but only in SD and A-List. In this variation he gets 12% as a safe option from f34, and if he wants more he HAS to commit to nutpunch or exnutpunch to get the damage, and they are full punish on block, so you usually might get punished for trying to punish. Without f3 there are LOTS of things you just can't punish.
Also, fisticuffs gets 0 pressure after f3 (A-List can start cancels, and SD his mimic pressure if he has them charged). He doesn't even get a safe fistbump charge off a f3 on block...



It's a good idea, yeah!
But f3 still has more range and is faster than f2, they should give more utility to f3 for fisticuffs.

I would suggest a new string like f3(12)4 or something, so you can hitconfirm, the 12 should be negative and the 4 as safe as f34.

With fistbump up. However never guna happen cause a new string is a huge ask and nrs thinks fisticuffs is fine for some reason. But without making the b12 string broke he needs a redesign to be competitive.

All that would mean is he has a hitconfirmable punish string like almost everyone in the game -when he has bump up.

 

[ismael4790]

I would suggest a new string like f3(12)4 or something, so you can hitconfirm, the 12 should be negative and the 4 as safe as f34.

With fistbump up. However never guna happen cause a new string is a huge ask and nrs thinks fisticuffs is fine for some reason. But without making the b12 string broke he needs a redesign to be competitive.

All that would mean is he has a hitconfirmable punish string like almost everyone in the game -when he has bump up.

Kenshi got new strings f211 and f214 (well, they were variations of his 111 and 114 strings) that allow him now to hitconfirm off of his f2 mid.

So the possibility is there. And I think Fisti should get this with or without fistbump enabled.

If they want to recycle things that already exist, they could give Fisticuffs a f3214 string (where 214 is the existent string). This way he could hitconfirm f3, and on block f3214 would be neutral (same as 214 is) so at least he would not be always negative off a f3 on block as he is now (unlike A-List, who gets + frames, and Stunt Double also stays plus with mimics).

 

[Wigy]

Kenshi got new strings f211 and f214 (well, they were variations of his 111 and 114 strings) that allow him now to hitconfirm off of his f2 mid.

So the possibility is there. And I think Fisti should get this with or without fistbump enabled.

If they want to recycle things that already exist, they could give Fisticuffs a f3214 string (where 214 is the existent string). This way he could hitconfirm f3, and on block f3214 would be neutral (same as 214 is) so at least he would not be always negative off a f3 on block as he is now (unlike A-List, who gets + frames, and Stunt Double also stays plus with mimics).

I wouldnt compare to the other variations as he operates differently, but he needs a mid to play footsies with, badly.

 

[Matador Fiend]

According to reos stream, 16bit said the game as it is now is its final version with no more patches or updates. That makes threads like this pointless unfortunately

 

[Wigy]

According to reos stream, 16bit said the game as it is now is its final version with no more patches or updates. That makes threads like this pointless unfortunately

Long live stunt double hard to blockable

 

[FROST_]

Another cage buff thread? Smh play hat trick @Eddy Wang will tell you the struggles are worse play ancestral @RM NoBrows can tell you the struggle of have all negative arrow cancels on block and 3 + cancels on hit. Play special forces Sonya @colby4898 can tell you the recent stealth nerf fucked Sonya right in the pussy. And theirs more variations worse. You are playing a balanced character and you try get him buffed so you don't have try as hard? Smh.

 

[colby4898]

Another cage buff thread? Smh play hat trick @Eddy Wang will tell you the struggles are worse play ancestral @RM NoBrows can tell you the struggle of have all negative arrow cancels on block and 3 + cancels on hit. Play special forces Sonya @colby4898 can tell you the recent stealth nerf fucked Sonya right in the pussy. And theirs more variations worse. You are playing a balanced character and you try get him buffed so you don't have try as hard? Smh.

The stealth nerf was a bug and was fixed in the end of march patch.

 

[ismael4790]

According to reos stream, 16bit said the game as it is now is its final version with no more patches or updates. That makes threads like this pointless unfortunately

Well, nrs guys will do what they want, but that doesn't change the fact that there are certain characters and variations that have not received the proper attention. This must be pointed out.

Another cage buff thread? Smh play hat trick @Eddy Wang will tell you the struggles are worse play ancestral @RM NoBrows can tell you the struggle of have all negative arrow cancels on block and 3 + cancels on hit. Play special forces Sonya @colby4898 can tell you the recent stealth nerf fucked Sonya right in the pussy. And theirs more variations worse. You are playing a balanced character and you try get him buffed so you don't have try as hard? Smh.

All fisticuffs strings cancelled into bump are also negative, by the way xD

Fisticuffs is not balanced, he has flaws everywhere, and simply can't play mkx as he is now. Read the whole thread with detail and you will realize that even his main distinctive string works incorrectly.

 

[juicepouch]

stop comparing him to a list and stunt double, cage doesnt need to be broke x3

 

[ismael4790]

stop comparing him to a list and stunt double, cage doesnt need to be broke x3

Even if ALL the suggestions in this thread came true, he wouldn't even be half as good as any of the other two variations. Excuse me if I want Fisticuffs to be viable xD

Stunt double is not broke, besides his corner htb, which is probably going to be removed. A-List needs to be toned down, yes.

 

[RM NoBrows]

Another cage buff thread? Smh play hat trick @Eddy Wang will tell you the struggles are worse play ancestral @RM NoBrows can tell you the struggle of have all negative arrow cancels on block and 3 + cancels on hit. Play special forces Sonya @colby4898 can tell you the recent stealth nerf fucked Sonya right in the pussy. And theirs more variations worse. You are playing a balanced character and you try get him buffed so you don't have try as hard? Smh.

It's not that bad playing ancestral now I know he has a safe string on block into reload. And certain other ones are safe against certain characters. I stopped playing him but started playing him again since then

 

[God Confirm]

This variation isn't even close to bottom 5. You just want a third variation in the top 5 - sorry, thats not balance.

 

[ismael4790]

This variation isn't even close to bottom 5. You just want a third variation in the top 5 - sorry, thats not balance.

You are more blind than Kenshi if you think the proposed changes would make him top 5...