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Official MK9 Community Matchup Chart

DanCock

Cock Master!!
Jade has ARMOR, what part of that isnt understandable.. she can escape upclose pressure.. jade isnt Sindel. sindel cant escape pressure jade can..

saying jade cant escape pressure is a silly comment..
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
The problem is he cant just dash-block his way in. I'll be making meter while he tries to get in.
What threat does Jade pose that Cage can't dash block to get in? I don't see what is stopping him. Staff pushes back on block, new safe strings push back, so what. He just keeps pressing on until he has her cornered.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
EX shadow kick is ass for getting him in, and considering glow > fireballs, EX fireball can end up being a total waste of meter.

Staff grab is -11, and 4f3 is safe on block, but the f3 can be ducked (which is the problem with the string in the first place, not just that it was unsafe). Also, u3 on crouchblock only causes blockstun with the 1st hit.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
Im basically saying that as soon as Cage touches Jade shes as good as dead his game can start from any move thats blocked or lands. She has nothing to keep him away. Once Cage is in hes definitely gonna get more chip damage on her than she dealt trying to keep him out, which means more meter. Cage with meter means he isnt going anywhere away from you anytime soon.

Cage never uses meter to get in against anybody in the cast anyway so thats never an issue. He uses meter to stay in.

At least I've learned from playing Boysx3 and Usedforglue that Jade is just no match for Cage.

I can see what you're trying to say but in reality Cage just chews Jade to pieces
She doesn't use 2 bars to break the pressure, she uses one bar with ExGlow and not only breaks your pressure but counters whatever hit she ate from you.

Let's be realistic: In reality, how many chars can TRULY get cage out of his face? Cage has some bad matchups, but I just can't see Jade as one of them. What's to stop him from dash blocking and ducking his way in, now that U3 is no longer a threat? Once he's in, Jade has to take risks to get him off. Only reason I'm commenting on this is because Cage is my main and I have access to a pretty solid Jade player

Krayzie: Can you maybe post a vid of playing against some JC players? I just don't understand how she can keep him out, maybe you know something I don't
Yeah sure man. We can also play online if you're on PSN, I noticed you're from SA, TX. Shouldn't be dreadful.

Jade can also use :en Glow when Cage is pressuring her.
This
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
EX shadow kick is ass for getting him in, and considering glow > fireballs, EX fireball can end up being a total waste of meter.

Staff grab is -11, and 4f3 is safe on block, but the f3 can be ducked (which is the problem with the string in the first place, not just that it was unsafe).
4F3 can be ducked from close range. F3 hits from a distance.

And ExBoomerang is actually not a bad idea anymore, its not able to go through and back even on block.

What threat does Jade pose that Cage can't dash block to get in? I don't see what is stopping him. Staff pushes back on block, new safe strings push back, so what. He just keeps pressing on until he has her cornered.
People need to learn how to actually use ExGlow. lol

I'll have some footage up soon.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
4f3 hits a neutral crouching Cage 100% of the time, if spaced, but will whiff a majority of the time on a crouchblocking Cage.

EX boomerang is a bad idea. You can jump out before the EX boomerang comes back to hit. Jumping back basically avoids everything (not sure if dash, b2 is avoided).
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
4f3 hits a neutral crouching Cage 100% of the time, if spaced, but will whiff a majority of the time on a crouchblocking Cage.

EX boomerang is a bad idea. You can jump out before the EX boomerang comes back to hit. Jumping back basically avoids everything (not sure if dash, b2 is avoided).
The best option would be not to jump, first of all. And yes, I can B2.

Also, why would you jump back if the point is to approach her?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Was just listing an option lol. Cage can jump over you as well, but if you throw an EX regular boomerang, he has to jump kick you to completely avoid it, and you have to be standblocking.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
Was just listing an option lol. Cage can jump over you as well, but if you throw an EX regular boomerang, he has to jump kick you to completely avoid it, and you have to be standblocking.
You're just gonna have to see match footage. I don't think anybody understand how Jade truly works, and I actually have a new style of play too that I'm just starting to test out.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
This is a chart posted by Tom Brady today, but I'm convinced he's trolling and can't actually believe what he just typed

"as i leave this character, my parting contribution is this match up chart.

I have traveled more then anyone for this game and used sub in more matches vs more ppl then anyone else. these are what i believe are accurate numbers"


6-4 vs Baraka
7-3 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
3.5-6.5 vs Cyrax
4-6 vs Ermac
4-6 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
4.5-5.5 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
3-7 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
5.5-4.5 vs Kenshi
3-7 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao
6-4 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot
5.5-4.5 vs Quan Chi
3.5-6.5 vs Raiden
4-6 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
4.5-5.5 vs Skarlet
4.9-5.1 vs Smoke
4.5-5.5 vs Sonya Blade
5.5-4.5 vs Stryker


TOTAL SCORE - 144.9
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
lol I actually think his list is fairly accurate...maybe exaggerrated in some match-ups, but Sub is overated. He's the worst male human ninja imo.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
This is a chart posted by Tom Brady today, but I'm convinced he's trolling and can't actually believe what he just typed

"as i leave this character, my parting contribution is this match up chart.

I have traveled more then anyone for this game and used sub in more matches vs more ppl then anyone else. these are what i believe are accurate numbers"


6-4 vs Baraka
7-3 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
3.5-6.5 vs Cyrax
4-6 vs Ermac
4-6 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
4.5-5.5 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
3-7 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
5.5-4.5 vs Kenshi
3-7 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao
6-4 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot
5.5-4.5 vs Quan Chi
3.5-6.5 vs Raiden
4-6 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
4.5-5.5 vs Skarlet
4.9-5.1 vs Smoke
4.5-5.5 vs Sonya Blade
5.5-4.5 vs Stryker


TOTAL SCORE - 144.9

He is not trolling. Post patch this chart is pretty accurate.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
This is a chart posted by Tom Brady today, but I'm convinced he's trolling and can't actually believe what he just typed

"as i leave this character, my parting contribution is this match up chart.

I have traveled more then anyone for this game and used sub in more matches vs more ppl then anyone else. these are what i believe are accurate numbers"


6-4 vs Baraka
7-3 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
3.5-6.5 vs Cyrax
4-6 vs Ermac
4-6 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
4.5-5.5 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
3-7 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
5.5-4.5 vs Kenshi
3-7 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao
6-4 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot
5.5-4.5 vs Quan Chi
3.5-6.5 vs Raiden
4-6 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
4.5-5.5 vs Skarlet
4.9-5.1 vs Smoke
4.5-5.5 vs Sonya Blade
5.5-4.5 vs Stryker


TOTAL SCORE - 144.9
Actually, it sounds legit to me.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
If I may I would like to ask F0xy Grampa a question.

Since people are writing them up now I may aswell throw mine in.

Cage vs Baraka 7/3 - is a massacre because they both have to fight from the same distance, Baraka isnt gonna be able to keep anything up as quickly as Cage. On top of that Cage has way more variety in his frametraps. New D1 and spin dont make a bit of differnce because he shouldnt even have the time to start up a spin and the d1 works the same as it did before really. He always had armour on Ex blades and having them fullscreen doesnt matter in the Cage matchup because Cage wont be fullscreen anyway. Chop Chop may prevent jump ins, but fortunately for us Cage isnt an airbourne character, hes an anti air character.

Cage vs Jax is a 6/4 - Just because Cage will win midscreen. If either character catches the other in the corner theyre dead. Any way Jax can kill Cage can be broken too. Typically you're gonna be chipping Jax out so they'll either have to use meter to escape or find the right time to poke. Whereas Cage can jump groundpounds. On top of that its not hard to get Jax off of you. You can duck everything he does and poke out inbetween his strings. His overheads are relatively slow, unless hes gonna hit you from a JIP F3 for frame advantage I dont think theres much to worry about. Cage can 11 Jaxs DU4 if you sniff it out and land him in a nutpunch. the only time for Jax to do an overhead that is safe for him is after Cage blocked his 2 1

Cage vs Stryker 6/4 - The gun is annoying, but thats all it can be. He doesnt have anything to push Cage back, so basically his little bullets will only be able to piss you off, its like shooting a pit bull with a spud gun. It doesnt matter that much that his launchers are safe now because Cage was never killing Stryker by punishing him anyway. That said, a blocked roll from Styker is your invitation to F3, he jumps you catch him, he stands you forceball him makes the roll not worth doing at all really, especially considering you're not gonna spend your time throwing projectiles at him anyway.

Cage vs Scorpion feels 5/5 to me. Sakishiro IMO is without a doubt the best Scorpion player in the world. The ways he deals with Cage makes the match tricky, but at the same time once Cage does his thing, just like he does to everybody else in the cast, theyre good as dead. At about half screen its gonna be his 334/F4 vs your F32. You gotta let them finish their string because it cant be interupted by F32 but it can be punished when they miss.

Cage vs Sub 4/6 - Ice Clone is an obvious threat. But you gotta play a major turtle game here, you're pretty much gauranteed first hit with your red kick so long as you back away and they iceball. If they dont ice ball then they have to come to you. Everytime you land a red shadow kick throw a projectile for extra chip/meter or damage on hit. Keeping a life lead is an absolute must. If you feel brave you can take the fight to the corner but you're better suited to fight him midscreen. Armour on his slide is an annoyance, but hes only gonna do it once you're frametrapping him so by that time you have chipped more than his Ex Slide can do. On top of that if you stay midscreen it wont be as useful to him as it would be in the corner, where he can switch positions. Nutpunch under the iceballs to look cool and build meter :D BE PATIENT. If he tries to run at you and D4 you all day you can just F3 the fool.

Cage vs Cyrax 4/6 (http://www.twitch.tv/exdragonproject/b/294833971) From the beginning. Pretty similar fight to Reptile. Stuffs on the screen and you cant shoot back. Be very careful on your spacing, punish bad bombs with a F3. Once you're outside of sweep distance you have to pick and choose carefully when you're gonna walk in. Once you're in make it count. Dont get netted, you can punish his wakeup anti air throw by using 11. If you anticipate it do 11 early and you knock him into a juggle, on reaction as he crosses you over with the throw your 11 will beat anything he does other than a low poke.
From jump distance if you have meter and want to close out a round or get in I find that Ex forceballs into F3 work, but you have to find the distance because if you mess it up you can miss the F3 and lose a bar.

Cage vs Kitana 4/6 - Similar to the SZ matchup, just make her come to you. You can get away with the occassional nutpunch under a fan for meter but dont do it too often. You want to spend most of the match neutral ducking your way in. If you suspect a square wave stay in the range of where she will land and your B3, B3 punishes it clean as she falls to land. You can punish her iAF by dashing in and pressing 1. Do it as she is summersaulting backwards after throwing the air fan. In the corner dont use your forceball frametraps because the second forceball will go through her, but midscreen they work. You may have to do alot of poking in this because we all know that Kitana players love their D1, so you gotta beat their pokes with F3/Your own poke/Cross overs. Only use the Ex Kick in this match to gain a life lead. I say this from playing quite a few Kitanas offline and Osu 16 Bit online.

Patience wins this matchup, she cant hurt you if she cant hit you, try not to worry about letting them build meter from fans so much, because once they mess up once you'll catch up.

Cage Vs Kung Lao 6/4 - Kung Lao is supposed to have an answer for everything in this game, the only one he has for Cage is his Xray, and thats not gonna be a common thing to have. His zoning is too weak to be that much of a threat. F3 beats out his roll. A blocked low hat used to = a free 11 nutpunch if they pressed any buttons afterwards, havent tested it lately, but its possibly a f3 now which is alot better. The teleport is 100% beaten by dash back B3 EVERY time. Once you poke out of his strings which are mainly highs you get your chance to lay into him. Just keep him close, remember exactly where you're at frame advantage and it can potentially bait a spin that WILL be beaten by your move. Dont forget that KL is a character that needs to jump. AA 1 him for hollywood. This was how it was before the patch so now that hes been nerfed even more a B3 punisher is easy on a blocked spin.

Cage Vs Sektor 5/5 ( http://www.twitch.tv/exdragonproject/b/294833971 ) - Around 37minutes is an example of a few things to do when fighting Sektor. Obviously your up close game will be as good as its going to be. But I feel like in this matchup movement is VERY important. Try walking instead of dashing so you dont get caught by rockets you shouldnt be. The flamethrower is the enemy. Its a 5/5 because Sektor is sick at keeping Cage away, but bad at getting him off at the same time. Even on his wakeup Ex TU hes at negative frames, and as soon as you know the other guy is at negative frames when you're a Cage player you MUST abuse it, give him the F3 Mix ups. Careful of your F32 in this fight though because the 2 will miss against a crouching Sektor. Try not to do wakeup attacks against a smart Sektor player because their B21 will beat all of your wakeup options (no meter). Learn the range of the flame thrower and his B21, if the Sektor player likes poking at you with a B21 its punishable on whiff by a F33nutpunch

Cage Vs Kenshi 4/6 - This fight is a bastard. Everytime you get hit by his shoulder you're going to be running the gauntlet of projectiles again. Hes most likely the perfect counter Cage, most of his Ex moves are armoured. You're just gonna have to bulldog your way in, AVOID THE SHOULDER AT ALL COSTS. You can duck underneathe the flurry but dont forget that he has an overhead slice. Because Kenshi has armour coming out of his ass it means that you're gonna have to make a read and predict when hes going to do the armour move, because he WILL do the armour move. Use this to get a crossover into a combo/blockstring.

Cage Vs Kano 6/4 - This ones pretty simple really, yeah he has a knife, but you know its coming so duck it. Hes not gonna be throwing knives at you point blank, you can walk towards him rather than dashing. The upball can interupt your offense if you slip up because its so fast, however, sniff it out and it just means that you get that F3 again. If he does an upball on wakeup you can punish it the same way you'd punish a flipkick from Cage, just step back and use any AA normal. Kano needs to be up close to hurt you. How unfortunate for him.

Cage Vs Ermac 4/6 - Even though Ermac has a crap time getting Cage off of him, the fact that he is a crazy zoner and has a hitbox that disables Cages forceballs and means that you're gonna have to use the F33 less means that hes already cut down your options. Dont jump, dash block. You can use your meter for Ex nutpunches to get out of his 312 mixups since you wont need it for anything else other than Xray. If you block a push from a little more than max distance you should be able to dash in and get a hit in on block. Use your D4 carefully, its the best way to gain advantage, but you dont want to over use it.

Cage Vs Sonya 5/5 - If they find a space to jump out you can eat a divekick for 40%, if you block a divekick they can eat at least a F33nutpunch or if they're close enough a B3, so the risk in theory is relatively equal. Sonya will beat you in a range war though, her upclose game is different, but by no means less intimidating, anti air jabbing her is a risk and at the end of every block string she does you have to guess between the 5 options she has. Throw, low, overhead, blockstring, crossover.

Cage Vs Reptile 3/7 - Right, at range Reptiles acidballs restrict your movement, so you wont get near him without going through some puzzle of forceballs and dribble (acid spit) but since you cant use your forceballs on him at close range it leaves your meter open to use Ex kick. Dash breaks any frametraps you're gonna do on him, besides anything you throw out after a D4 hits. If that wasnt enough now he has armour on his slide, just incase they found it too hard to time a dash. In this matchup your offensive plan should be excuted the same way you would against Ermac, but you must respect the dash at all times, as well as the low slide. Punish a dash with F33nutpunch and a slide with B3 2 2 2 44 nutpunch. Also be careful when theyre charging up an Ex forceball because sometimes your Ex shadow kick wont break it and you can be launched.

Cage Vs Mileena 6/4 - All of her specials are punishable by B3, making Cage one of a few characters able to punish her with a full combo. If you are close enough you can knock her out of the air after her air sai with a AA jab. Forceball frametraps work on her perfectly and F3 beats her D4. If you sniff out that the Mileena player is going to do U4 against you just press 11, it will anti air her kick and end her in a nutpunch. She has no armour moves so no easy way out of the beating. Since shes a pretty jump happy character anti air 1 is sick against her.

Cage Vs Raiden 5/5 - Whoever can get into the head of the other player here wins. He can teleport out of your frame traps, say you do F33ExFB and he teleports, if you dont do a move after the FB you get a free 11 on the recovery of his teleport. Other than that this matchup is mainly worked around the Raiden player and what they do once they use the teleport. Will they jump? Will they poke/throw/string? You just have to make the right adjustment but it doesnt neccessarily mean that he will be at advantage. As well as that be careful of the armour on his Ex shocker. Heres a couple examples:



Cage Vs CSZ 5/5 - Neither character can hurt each other from fullscreen, CSZ can shoot bombs that make Cage move but they dont really hurt when they land. Cage has better pokes, his pokes will stop the parry from working. But CSZ has a short divekick which will counter your pokes. So his parry > your normals. your pokes > his parry. His divekicks > your pokes. You can punish a divekick with a F3 if they do it above your head, if you're in doubt and think he may have time to recover and parry go for a D4. Try not to be patterned at all because if they know a normal is coming you're gonna get parried.

Cage Vs Kabal 4/6 - Once you're up in his face you have to expect the Ex dash to come at some point, so make some holes in your offense where they think that he can dash and just block and punish. If you're unfortunate enough to be away from him just crouch block your way in, be careful on his advances. If you know hes going to cancel his dash IMMEDIATELY do F3 because you will beat any move he can throw out bar a D1. Never jump either :p

Cage Vs Smoke 5/5 - Both characters will build meter pretty quick doing what they do. Block dash towards him. Basically a game of cat and mouse. Be the cat :p If they dare try to tele in the air you can punish with B3. Space yourself carefully and you can catch your smoke away/towards with a F3

Cage Vs Nightwolf 5/5 - When you know a shoulder is coming dont try to uppercut it, use your D4 to get advantage and start your frametraps. Lightning is punishable from fullscreen cause you got a pretty quick dash even a jump in combo :D You're gonna mainly get hurt while you're trying to get in. But once you're in all hes got is armour, pokes or death.

Cage Vs Quan Chi 6/4 - Quan Chi needs to be near you to hurt you. If he teleports either side of you just F3, it should catch any follow up he can do so long as its timed properly. In theory armour on his skydrop doesnt matter because you're not gonna let him hit the floor anyway. Once you're outside of sweep distance you're gonna wanna walk to him to dodge the skulls easier.

Cage Vs Shang 6/4 - Dash block your way in. If his back is near a wall and he fireballs you, you can try a red kick to put him next to the wall since he has no way to get out once you trap him there. Obviously you have to expect skulls to be coming from everywhere, so instead of fearing them its easier to dash block right up to him, unless you are trying to bait the wrong kind of skull and punish him for it. Upskulls are the ones you want to avoid the most since they can land you in one of his blockstrings.

Cage Vs Skarlet 4/6 - Her damage is high + she has a reset aswell, that wouldn't be so bad if she couldnt Ex dash between Cages upclose game and punish him with a launcher. But obviously its not a gauranteed thing, so be careful what makes the Skarlet player want to Ex Dash. If they do and overhead slice you can combo punish her, other than that her low slide will always give her space to move. To get near to her you just have to dash block, obviously her dagger nerf will make it easier to get closer but its still a pain.

Cage Vs Liu Kang 5/5 - Kang is better further away but Cage is better up close. But even so Kang cant win a game off of his fireballs alone. His parry doesnt work against frametraps because the startup is too slow. Look out for the obvious B312, fuzzy guard his 213. Since his pokes are slow it means that hes going to have a harder time to get out of the traps. Ex nutpunch can reverse the pressure game if hes laying into you.

Cage Vs Sindel 7/3 - May aswell just run at them. As they go into the air to fireball you, just dash under it and use an AA jab to take them from the sky. Once you've grounded her its game over. Typically you want to stand block against her and only block low once you see her go for a low fireball, this is because her cartwheel kick is overhead and has quite a lot of range on it. A well placed forceball can take her out of the air to get a bit of time to move closer.

Cage Vs Rain 5/5 - He has so much armour to use and alot more damage, but hes not as fast as Cage. His teleport is pretty useless because all it will do is put him in range for a beatdown. Be careful when spacing your attacks, it seems his B2 1+2 has a bigger hitbox than Cages F32. Ex roundhouse is safe on block, so if you sniff it out attempt a cross over, he will take the hits with the armour but it wont last long enough to let him get out. At range both characters are equally poor.

Cage Vs Sheeva 6/4 - She has long reaching moves and frametraps of her own, everytime you block her command grab you're going to have to guess the follow up, midscreen it isnt that bad but in the corner shes pretty devestating. Her Ex CG will go through your traps and eat 22% of your life so can either cross her over if you anticipate it. Now that her fireball is mid you're definitely not gonna win a zoning war with her. Stay close & vigilant of the EX grab. When used properly Sheeva is not a character to be underestimated. Cages speed wins him this matchup.

Cage Vs Cage 10-0 Someone here is gonna get fucked up
Great list man! Your JC is a show to watch.

With the recent patch JC's Red Shadow Kick seems to no longer have super armor, but instead seems to have only armor at the beginning, making it now possible to actually hit him out of it. Here's the discussion about it: http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?12354-EX-Shadow-Kick-is-broke

Would this have a significant impact in the numbers you posted?
 

Past

Noob
Jade is Rose in Vanilla SFIV...

I'll add some feedback on each match a bit later. Post-Patch we have push-back on staff grab, and safe 4F3 which pushes back. None of which give her any up-close pressure besides what she already had. The only new pressure game she has is her returning boomerangs on block, which is actually all a gimmick. Match-ups she might have won, now she loses because of the changes in the other characters. Baraka which was 5-5 imo is now 4-5. SubZero 6-4 is now 5-5... Her U3 move you can now neutral duck, and there are really no mix-ups with U3 and staff overhead because "SO" is too slow. U3 is also now air-born at a specific height which is good, but doesn't really change any match numbers.

I'm still exploring her though after the patch. So I'll update this if I get anything new. I'll try and get a lot of match-up experience with her at my local gatherings and if you see me online, I'll probably be using a lot of Jade. Just don't challenge me if you live in antartica or some shit... lol

4-6 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs SubZero
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Ermac
6-4 vs Noob
3-7 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Rain
4-6 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Kitana
6-4 vs Skarlet
4-6 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Cyrax
4-6 vs Cyber SubZero
4-6 vs Kenshi
3-7 vs Freddy
6-4 vs Sindel
4-6 vs Sonya
5-5 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Stryker
6-4 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Kung Lao
4-6 vs Kano
4-6 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Kabal
4-6 vs Baraka
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Quan Chi
3-7 vs Raiden
6-4 vs Sheeva
Something is not right with this chart. You can look at it for 1 minute and notice that it has inconsistencies all over the place. How do you lose to Baraka but you beat Cage and Liu Kang? How do you beat Cage but go even with Kabal (whose pressure is just as good as cage)? Prepatch, everyone was in unison that Mileena loses to Jade. Without any significant changes to Mileena or Jade, the matchup is now in Mileena's favor. How did that change?
Later you said that you can glow through Cage's pressure and she can keep him away. Why can't we apply that same logic to Kabal and Sonya and call it 6-4 in Jade's favor?
Finally, what's up about the Sub-Zero matchup? All he got was a slide buff and now its 5-5 when he has the same approach options as cage with a weaker upclose game.


This chart needs to be revised.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
Something is not right with this chart. You can look at it for 1 minute and notice that it has inconsistencies all over the place. How do you lose to Baraka but you beat Cage and Liu Kang? How do you beat Cage but go even with Kabal (whose pressure is just as good as cage)? Prepatch, everyone was in unison that Mileena loses to Jade. Without any significant changes to Mileena or Jade, the matchup is now in Mileena's favor. How did that change?
Later you said that you can glow through Cage's pressure and she can keep him away. Why can't we apply that same logic to Kabal and Sonya and call it 6-4 in Jade's favor?
Finally, what's up about the Sub-Zero matchup? All he got was a slide buff and now its 5-5 when he has the same approach options as cage with a weaker upclose game.


This chart needs to be revised.
Matchup experience. Most of these are old matchup experience which is why I said I would revise it as I explore the post-patch character over.

I've played the top 16 Cage from Evo, the top 8 Kabal from Evo and many more matchups with Jade. Most of it is pre-patch stuff I never cared to update because I dropped Jade.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
If I may I would like to ask F0xy Grampa a question.


Great list man! Your JC is a show to watch.

With the recent patch JC's Red Shadow Kick seems to no longer have super armor, but instead seems to have only armor at the beginning, making it now possible to actually hit him out of it. Here's the discussion about it: http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?12354-EX-Shadow-Kick-is-broke

Would this have a significant impact in the numbers you posted?
The only matchup that the Red kick really affects is the Sub matchup. I dont know if the armour dissappearing is supposed to happen though, just seems inconsistent, sometimes he gets hit out of it and sometimes he doesnt its strange.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
Raiden vs SZ FOR SURE is 5-5. Whoever gets the first hit wins. SZ can hide in his clone and Raiden has to not only guess w/EN Superman, but he's taking a huge risk doing so. On paper, it's 5-5, especially w/SZ having extra frames on freeze and armor on slide. Even CDJR agrees w/me in the SZ forums. I'm not sold on the matchup chart, but if this is agreed upon by the top players, so be it


REO's latest Kabal matchup chart

7-3 vs Baraka
8-2 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
7-3 vs Cyrax
7-3 vs Ermac
5-5 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
7-3 vs Jax
7-3 vs Johnny Cage
7-3 vs Kano
7-3 vs Kenshi
6-4 vs Kitana
5-5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
6-4 vs Nightwolf
7-3 vs Noob Saibot
7-3 vs Quan Chi
5-5 vs Raiden
6-4 vs Rain
6-4 vs Reptile
6-4 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
8-2 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
7-3 vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Smoke
7-3 vs Sonya Blade
7-3 vs Stryker
7-3 vs Sub-Zero
 

Past

Noob
This is hilarious. All of the fanboys were praising how balanced this game is and how everyone is viable now with the patch. Then the "top" players start making matchup charts and throwing 7-3 and 8-2 matchups all over the place. If that is Kabal's matchup chart then lol at MK9. A matchup intensive game like this is not a hallmark of balance. Now games will be decided at character select screen.


EDIT: 15 fucking 7-3 and 8-2 matchups for Kabal. So much for this game being competitive.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
This is hilarious. All of the fanboys were praising how balanced this game is and how everyone is viable now with the patch. Then the "top" players start making matchup charts and throwing 7-3 and 8-2 matchups all over the place. If that is Kabal's matchup chart then lol at MK9. A matchup intensive game like this is not a hallmark of balance. Now games will be decided at character select screen.


EDIT: 15 fucking 7-3 and 8-2 matchups for Kabal. So much for this game being competitive.
It is competitive. For tournaments. Just because a char has better tools doesn't mean it's impossible. Nobody is saying SZ cannot beat Kabal. Nobody is saying Raiden cannot beat Reptile. CDJR is going to main Jax for Seasons Beatings, and he listed his matchup chart as if Jax is a mid tier char. That's his opinion, and it doesn't mean CDJR isn't prepared to body everybody in his way to first place. This is how all top players think when they pick up a char, and rightfully so.

If you entered tournaments, you would understand a matchup chart is a reference chart. Look at tournament results and you'll see there are lots of different chars winning/placing high.
 

Past

Noob
It is competitive. For tournaments. Just because a char has better tools doesn't mean it's impossible. Nobody is saying SZ cannot beat Kabal. Nobody is saying Raiden cannot beat Reptile. CDJR is going to main Jax for Seasons Beatings, and he listed his matchup chart as if Jax is a mid tier char. That's his opinion, and it doesn't mean CDJR isn't prepared to body everybody in his way to first place. This is how all top players think when they pick up a char, and rightfully so.

If you entered tournaments, you would understand a matchup chart is a reference chart. Look at tournament results and you'll see there are lots of different chars winning/placing high.
I do understand that. Yes I know its not impossible but that does not invalidate the fact that there are too many 7-3 and 8-2 matchups. If you are a masochist, then I guess its no problem for you. But I know that any player, online or not will want to choose the easier option which is switch to another character.
 

DanCock

Cock Master!!
All they need to do to kabal is either remove the safe jump knee move he has or remove the ability to special cancel with the dash. His IAGB is not the problem.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
I do understand that. Yes I know its not impossible but that does not invalidate the fact that there are too many 7-3 and 8-2 matchups. If you are a masochist, then I guess its no problem for you. But I know that any player, online or not will want to choose the easier option which is switch to another character.
Is that what top players are doing now? Counter picking to win tournaments? Do you see the same chars winning tournaments? You are basing the games inbalance off of what a few players matchup charts look like, instead of looking at results like the rest of us.

And who cares who counters who online? Online is not taken seriously nor is it taken into the matchup chart equation, it's an entirely different game so there is no reason to even mention online in this thread
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
It doesn't mean much, but I disagree with REO's Kabal v. Sektor match being even. TU for punish is completely off the table if Kabal decides to ground saw all day. It's not so much that the goddamn projectile starts behind him, its that it moves him forward, and for a good amount of frames. I try to IATU on reaction, I fuckin whiff every time. This is 6-4 Kabal, in my view.
 

Past

Noob
Is that what top players are doing now? Counter picking to win tournaments? Do you see the same chars winning tournaments? You are basing the games inbalance off of what a few players matchup charts look like, instead of looking at results like the rest of us.

And who cares who counters who online? Online is not taken seriously nor is it taken into the matchup chart equation, it's an entirely different game so there is no reason to even mention online in this thread
I mentioned it because there are people who play online and use offline charts like this as their holy bible. As for character switching REO switched from mileena to cyrax in EVO and Brady constantly switched from sub-zero to Kung Lao and I think JOP switched from Cage to Raiden. REO is now using Kabal and TB is dropping Sub-Zero. Krayzie dropped jade for a long while for cyrax.
The results and the matchup charts are two completely different things. The results could easily been based upon one player having more skill/luck(lol input bug) than another, but the matchup chart assumes equal skill.