Now that the dust has settled, can we agree...

[OFC Salty Santa]

Zoning is busted.


Nothing about I2 "zoning" is logical. It is literal spam in the truest sense of the word. The effort it takes to lock someone down fullscreen vs the effort it takes to avoid getting locked down is so out of wack it makes me wonder how they made it to release like this. Does anyone at NRS actually play their own games? Or maybe they don't even know how to play fighting games so they didn't realize the mess they made. Why do anything other than spam full screen if it's so effective? You'd just be making it harder for yourself.


Solutions:
Add meter gain on block.
I think this is a bad idea. It would make each match highly volatile and based around getting reversals and then we might as well be playing MKX

Make MB Roll a separate input
The big problem with Roll as it stands is that it's actually a meter burned forward dash. You'll often get stuffed out of the dash before you even have a chance to get a roll. Against zoners this a problem because they can just throw shit out indiscriminately and counter the very move that was meant to beat them. As a separate input it would shave a couple frames off the startup and allow it to be a more reliable tool

Tweak each zoners recovery times
As it stands most zoners recover too fast to allow viable counter play. What would be a bad decision in any other fighting game as a zoner is free chip in I2. What would be a good decision is fullscreen jail in I2. With more recovery time on projectiles you would keep their overall tactics the same, but make them play more thoughtfully in the process. I think this would be the most time consuming tweak but also the most effective. It could be dangerous however if they add TOO much recovery, then the fireballs will be too trash to zone at all.

Buff the characters that can't deal with zoning reliably
I like this solution as much as the previous one. Zoners keep their spam, but those that struggle can be given better tools on an individual basis to deal.

Am I off the mark here? (inb4 300 replies of people telling me to go back to MKX because they can't read)

 

[Psyren136]

Go back to MKX because i can't read

 

[Name v.5.0]

I gotta be honest. I dont feel like it's been super hard to get in on characters like Deadshot or Fate.

What sucks is that once I get there, they have a TON of meter. They can roll out of combos, push block, and when they clash they tend to always have plenty of meter.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

Almost everything you said is exactly whats wrong with tym lol. Almost no one who plays this game at a high level thinks this at all. Ppl dont exploit zoners enough at all,ppl still walk in on darkseids zoning when they can dash, no one punishes supes etc. While i do think some characters need some buffs,everything else you said is retarded lol. Like have you seen wotg,nlbc,rhs. Like most good players deal with zoning fine lol. Im actually glad the devs rarely go on tym anymore its become cancer lol.

 

[chores]

couldnt agree more.

#1 i think we should ban morrigan or at least nerf soul fist since it is zero skill zoning/spamming. it fills the screen with projectiles and she can convert to a dead character off any errant hit -- who thinks this is balanced?

#2 guile is a ridiculous excuse for a character. i have to crouch walk him into the corner only to be pushed back halfscreen by his vtrigger or flash kicked fullscreen. what kind of lazy design is this? how is that fair?

 

[-LD50-]

I honestly am shocked at the fast recovery of fireballs in i2 and calling it free chip is putting it lightly - it's free meter too. 'Not only is it hard work to get in but by the time you get in the zoner has a guaranteed slight lifelead and huge meter lead even if you didn't misstep once as the rush down. You're at a huge disadvantage, there's a lack of tool / footsies disparity to make up for it, and giving rushdown more tools and removing tools from zoners would just make gameplay way more linear and boring even if much more fair.

Zoning isn't as insane as people make it out to be but I don't see how people deny that the meter economy is really fucked up and imbalanced in i2 and calling mb roll an answer is asinine because of this

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Im actually glad the devs rarely go on tym anymore its become cancer lol.

They are here more than you think -- but they're also smart enough to make their own decisions.

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

Zoning isn't OP. Some people just don't want to adjust, play slower and/or navigate. It feels like zoning is easier because you're basically fighting 3 or 4 of the same moves the majority of the time but it's by no means and instant win style of play. Zoners have to work hard for their Ws.

I feel like when people want characters adjusted to deal with zoning better that they want insta-buttons to avoid the strengths that the zoning style offers.

I'd also point out that combo breaker wasn't filled with top tier, game breaking zoning either.

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

I can't even reply to half of these posts because it's clear you didn't read what I put.

I'm willing to accept that maybe it's Robin that sucks vs zoners. Every tournament I have attended and/or watched so far that had a Robin in top 8, the Robin had a pocket Adam/Deadshot to fight zoners.

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

couldnt agree more.

#1 i think we should ban morrigan or at least nerf soul fist since it is zero skill zoning/spamming. it fills the screen with projectiles and she can convert to a dead character off any errant hit -- who thinks this is balanced?

#2 guile is a ridiculous excuse for a character. i have to crouch walk him into the corner only to be pushed back halfscreen by his vtrigger or flash kicked fullscreen. what kind of lazy design is this? how is that fair?

#1 Morrigan projectile spam has a steep execution requirement to even begin to approach "decent". Then if you do touch her, she dies in half a combo.

#2 Guile does not have 50/50 mixups into 40% damage combos when you do reach him.

 

[dribirut]

Almost everything you said is exactly whats wrong with tym lol. Almost no one who plays this game at a high level thinks this at all. Ppl dont exploit zoners enough at all,ppl still walk in on darkseids zoning when they can dash, no one punishes supes etc. While i do think some characters need some buffs,everything else you said is (soap bar in my mouth) lol. Like have you seen wotg,nlbc,rhs. Like most good players deal with zoning fine lol. Im actually glad the devs rarely go on tym anymore its become cancer lol.

Although I somewhat agree with you, didn't you drop Swampthing because of that very reason for one of the strongest zoners in the game..

 

[ILuvFightGames]

#1 Morrigan projectile spam has a steep execution requirement to even begin to approach "decent". Then if you do touch her, she dies in half a combo.

#2 Guile does not have 50/50 mixups into 40% damage combos when you do reach him.

Yea, just watch ncr grand finals between punk's Karin and du's guile, it was about who could implement their game style better, guile had the upper hand from a distance but once Karin got in then it was her turn. And those are two of the best of the best players making their character work.

 

[DeftMonk]

I gotta be honest. I dont feel like it's been super hard to get in on characters like Deadshot or Fate.

What sucks is that once I get there, they have a TON of meter. They can roll out of combos, push block, and when they clash they tend to always have plenty of meter.

this is pretty much my experience as well. By the time you get in on a zoner they have more tools because of meter.

 

[Clark L.]

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

 

[Zoidberg747]

this is pretty much my experience as well. By the time you get in on a zoner they have more tools because of meter.

This has almost always been the case in NRS games though. Once you get in you have to watch out for these things but most of them can be punished or avoided.

Zoners definitely destroy some characters in the game, but that has more to do with the characters than with the zoners. Duck walking works against a lot of them, dashing as well. MB Roll has to be timed correctly but with a good read you can use it effectively.

 

[DanCock]

how about you learn how to play and be patient.. zoning is not that great in this game.. cheetah, catwoman, and even the flash have answers to the zoning.

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

how about you learn how to play and be patient.. zoning is not that great in this game.. cheetah, catwoman, and even the flash have answers to the zoning.

How about you learn how to read because I didn't just pick up fighting games yesterday.

Disagree with me or not, I raised some very good points that you refused to address

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

Although I somewhat agree with you, didn't you drop Swampthing because of that very reason for one of the strongest zoners in the game..

I dropped swampthing for a number of reasons, yes that was one but its a swampthing issue not a game issue. I dropped him mostly due to all his offense being fake as well.

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

Seriously just imagined if projectiles clashed, problem solved.

 

[DanCock]

Seriously just imagined if projectiles clashed, problem solved.

doctor fates meter burn one does.

zoning is not that great in this game. im sick and tired of being called names because i "spam and cheese". i played many good players who were able to neutralize my fireballs by slowly ducking and walking up to me.

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

How about you learn how to read because I didn't just pick up fighting games yesterday.

Disagree with me or not, I raised some very good points that you refused to address

You haven't raised any good points.

You want more recovery on projectiles because they're too difficult for you to navigate at your own will.

The start up on MB roll, stops it being abused. Again you're looking for an insta-button to get some face time.

The only half-decent idea of the three you posted is the one you've stated is a bad idea.

Zoning is a style you don't like playing. If it gives you that much trouble when using Robin, pick up someone else.

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

People seem to think me thinking zoners have overloaded kits means "i'm impatient". Strange.

Imagine if cheetah had an instant fullscreen laser or robins birdarang came out in 7 frames. Would that be ok to you?

No?

Then why is it cool that the zoners can beat the rushdown at their own game?

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

doctor fates meter burn one does.

zoning is not that great in this game. im sick and tired of being called names because i "spam and cheese". i played many good players who were able to neutralize my fireballs by slowly ducking and walking up to me.

Woah, its likes the only way to counterplay the zoners...is to pick a zoner.

Whoda thunkit

I'm not calling zoners spammers, but the zoning in I2 is INCREDIBLY spammy. There is VERY little decision making going on and even LESS risk involved. This combined with all the positive aspects of it makes for an incredibly 1 sided experience. Go play a Street Fighter or KoF game and throw fireballs out with reckless abandon like you can in I2, see how far you get.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Go back to MKX didn't even read what you posted. But I literally mean that.
The "dust" hasn't been "settled" yet and this game still has a long way to go.