General/Other - Alien Normalizing Alien(My Suggestions)

[Invincible Salads]

But everyone in the cast doesnt have a double hitting low from midscreen

we can keep going in a circle on this kind of stuff all day. Point is making his low reward mixups unsafe would make them almost pointless.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

But everyone in the cast doesnt have a double hitting low from midscreen

the character IS allowed to have some dirt, lets just focus on toning down the bad game design stuff. SLOW start up but extremely long range normals is kinda Alien's strength, at any range closer than midscreen his normals are pretty slow. His equivalent of Cassie's B1 / Kotal's B1 / Reptiles F2, etc, is his D4, which is slower, worse hitbox, and doesn't combo (on the plus side it's all Reach however), but that is his downside. His F1 is a pretty mediocre mid in comparison with the rest of the cast's mid. His S2(high) footsies are pretty damn good but thats a very defensive tool, his D1 is very nice but still not even top 10 D1's in this game so nothing broke there. His buttons and mix-ups off them are fine and well balanced IMO, although I wouldn't be against making Tail Snag a Mid.

 

[x TeeJay o]

we can keep going in a circle on this kind of stuff all day. Point is making his low reward mixups unsafe would make them almost pointless.

And this is why i said in the thread that i may have missed things so let me know if i did. I was just in the mindset of thinking since he reaches so far and has so many options that i thought having a low mid screen combo starter into an overhead special being safe was a bit much. BUT it is low reward . Noted . Appreciate the feedback.

 

[x TeeJay o]

the character IS allowed to have some dirt, lets just focus on toning down the bad game design stuff. SLOW start up but extremely long range normals is kinda Alien's strength, at any range closer than midscreen his normals are pretty slow. His equivalent of Cassie's B1 / Kotal's B1 / Reptiles F2, etc, is his D4, which is slower, worse hitbox, and doesn't combo (on the plus side it's all Reach however), but that is his downside. His F1 is a pretty mediocre mid in comparison with the rest of the cast's mid. His S2(high) footsies are pretty damn good but thats a very defensive tool, his D1 is very nice but still not even top 10 D1's in this game so nothing broke there. His buttons and mix-ups off them are fine and well balanced IMO, although I wouldn't be against making Tail Snag a Mid.

Yeah f1 mid is a bit mediocre. If tail snag was a mid i would def keep tail flip -7.

 

[omooba]

The character has everything, really.

Tarkatan specifically.

THINGS TARKATAN DOESN'T HAVE
50/50 meterless luancher
projectile (basic part of fighting games that 80%+ of the cast has)
good stagger strings (rekkas isn't technically a string)
unblockables or any type of set up for that matter

- Good damage, re-stand.

no he has no restand unless the definition of restand has changed

- Fullscreen armor.

no he doesn't unless the definition of fullscreen has changed in fact i'm pretty sure we all know he has no fullscreen presence

- Jump punch that was taken away from other characters.

lao, sub, jin to name a few still have theirs
guys lets not overstate how good a character is. i understand that you don't lie how badly lao was nerfed, i don't like it either but just cus our mains got hit doesn't mean we should shit on others

 

[omooba]

I understand where u are coming from , but understand that with taik flip being safe Alien pretty much has 0 risks for using mixups. He can cancel his j4 into tail flip and exo sting, b3 into tail flip is painfully annoying, f4 into tail flip is also good. Yeah it doesnt launch but it corner carries and if u allow yourself to get hit by the normal one, what is gonna stop u from getting hit with the MB one for a full combo. I believe b3 into tail flip is an actual combo as well which means mid screen mix ups

-7 is technically unsafe but yeah no one is punishing that. and on that argument if i'm doing 5% dmg every time u guess wrong and i'm safe why is that so much better than doing 36-39% everytime u guess wrong but being unsafe and the next 50/50 is guaranteed everytime one hits
and regarding the j4 into tail flip being safe isn't ermac's jump in anything into soul blast safe? ex soul blast being like +14 and you get 33+ into +22 restand in the corner

Nobody is going to use low tail up close unless u got major balls. Its safe from b3 range. Also i don't want him to be wrecked i think he'd still be amazing without the jailing rekkas. If you played him you would understand where im coming from when i say that. Aliens mixups are real and already essentially safe because of his range.

umm everyone throws in low tail up close eventually. it's a hard read to block
and his mix ups are safe because of frame data not really range. keep in mind that these are probably the most whiff punishable things in the game

 

[x TeeJay o]

-7 is technically unsafe but yeah no one is punishing that. and on that argument if i'm doing 5% dmg every time u guess wrong and i'm safe why is that so much better than doing 36-39% everytime u guess wrong but being unsafe and the next 50/50 is guaranteed everytime one hits
and regarding the j4 into tail flip being safe isn't ermac's jump in anything into soul blast safe? ex soul blast being like +14 and you get 33+ into +22 restand in the corner

All good points. Although that is EX soul blast not regular right?

 

[omooba]

All good points. Although that is EX soul blast not regular right?

i said ex didn't i? bascially soul blast in the air is better in everyway. i'm pretty sure the regular one is also plus but eh not sure

 

[x TeeJay o]

-7 is technically unsafe but yeah no one is punishing that. and on that argument if i'm doing 5% dmg every time u guess wrong and i'm safe why is that so much better than doing 36-39% everytime u guess wrong but being unsafe and the next 50/50 is guaranteed everytime one hits
and regarding the j4 into tail flip being safe isn't ermac's jump in anything into soul blast safe? ex soul blast being like +14 and you get 33+ into +22 restand in the corner

umm everyone throws in low tail up close eventually. it's a hard read to block
and his mix ups are safe because of frame data not really range. keep in mind that these are probably the most whiff punishable things in the game

Trust me i know lol. I only throw tail snag in up close if they really are respecting the tail flip.

 

[x TeeJay o]

i said ex didn't i? bascially soul blast in the air is better in everyway. i'm pretty sure the regular one is also plus but eh not sure

Yeah. J4 into regular tail flip is safe. Ex tail flip is unsafe. But yes i understand what u mean

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

make a non launching overhead special unsafe? then you better make Takeda's and Reptiles overhead meterless non-launching special unsafe too....


or how bout lets not do any of that?

Meanwhile kenshi df1 is -10

 

[omooba]

Meanwhile kenshi df1 is -10

you can't still think kenshi will be top tier

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

you can't still think kenshi will be top tier

No I know he will always be bottom 3-5 in this game Because of mk9 and bad conceptual design overall. He's an afterthought and it shows

 

[jackempty0]

if you nerf acidic the way you are proposing, you instantly make it low tier just like the venomous dvorah that you keep comparing it to

 

[x TeeJay o]

if you nerf acidic the way you are proposing, you instantly make it low tier just like the venomous dvorah that you keep comparing it to

How? In its current state it's borderline broke. You just f134 into acid blood + a throw and watch the damage tick away. Did u see that gif or no? Lol. He would still have great tick damage, space control, and mixups. I mean i would be fine with keeping acid blood -8 but still toning down the DOT

 

[I GOT HANDS]

THINGS TARKATAN DOESN'T HAVE
50/50 meterless luancher
projectile (basic part of fighting games that 80%+ of the cast has)
good stagger strings (rekkas isn't technically a string)
unblockables or any type of set up for that matter

no he has no restand unless the definition of restand has changed

no he doesn't unless the definition of fullscreen has changed in fact i'm pretty sure we all know he has no fullscreen presence

lao, sub, jin to name a few still have theirs
guys lets not overstate how good a character is. i understand that you don't lie how badly lao was nerfed, i don't like it either but just cus our mains got hit doesn't mean we should shit on others

He does have a restand, ex Krawl restands

one thing that you forget is that he doesn't have tho is a good advancing mid outside of Rekka and that is 15f

 

[jackempty0]

How? In its current state it's borderline broke. You just f134 into acid blood + a throw and watch the damage tick away. Did u see that gif or no? Lol. He would still have great tick damage, space control, and mixups. I mean i would be fine with keeping acid blood -8 but still toning down the DOT

the mixup would mean nothing without the dmg. ill concede the point of space control but again no reward. and if you tone down the dot then you lose "great damage"

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Honestly just reduce the stacking damage on his acid and he'll be fine. Nerfing his rekkas is a knee jerk reaction in my opinion.

 

[ABACABB]

No reason to make his tail flip unsafe cuz it leads to nothing and most good players blocks it anyway ( easly recognzable by its animation ) + ex ver is unsafe . It should stay like its now..

As for acidic if you nerf him like that you kill this variation. He gets no real dmg without it .. IMO acidic is perfectly fine as it is now ,as for rekkas and all i dont play this var so idk .

WHY you want to nerf this when there is a lot more dirt in game ? This is far from broken or OP.

 

[ArmedCalf]

I don't know the other two variations well enough - but I think Konjurer is fine and I agree with Tark not having armour on rekkas. Not sure how I feel about Tail Flip being more - but I suppose if he had a safe string option that'd be cool. I agree with the change to j4 as well.

 

[x TeeJay o]

No reason to make his tail flip unsafe cuz it leads to nothing and most good players blocks it anyway ( easly recognzable by its animation ) + ex ver is unsafe . It should stay like its now..

As for acidic if you nerf him like that you kill this variation. He gets no real dmg without it .. IMO acidic is perfectly fine as it is now ,as for rekkas and all i dont play this var so idk .

WHY you want to nerf this when there is a lot more dirt in game ? This is far from broken or OP.

Do you think what i showed in that gif was fair? You have to guess between OH and A Low thats stacks crazy amounts. It all connects. Im not saying reduce the stacking 50% im just saying tone it down a WEE bit man.This is my character as well i don't want to kill him. Just because other characters have MORE DIRT doesn't mean anything. Other characters don't have close to Aliens range and I think you guys are completely disregarding that. YES his normals are slow and yadda yadda but guess what, if you jump he can anti air you THREE DIFFERENT WAYS. He gets 37% MIDSCREEN 1 Bar WITHOUT using acid blood restand or exo sting. Don't tell me anything about he doesn't get damage without it lol

 

[x TeeJay o]

Honestly just reduce the stacking damage on his acid and he'll be fine. Nerfing his rekkas is a knee jerk reaction in my opinion.

I thought the same thing until i fought high level Alien tarkatans. Its not a knee jerk reaction anybody can see that it's pretty ridiculous. How is a safe 9 frame mid advancing special from midscreen a knee jerk reaction? Is it because you can armor with option select? Have u even played against someone b3 into rekka,f134 into rekka,f4 into rekka SAFE jailing ALL game while building 60% of meter at no risk of expense? It's pretty unfair man... You can't do anything if u don't have meter and even if you do there is a chance you mess up the armor OS and get hit by the grab ender for 37%. You can be JAILED from MIDSCREEN and pushed to the corner and pretty much kept there lol. I don't see how this is okay

 

[Zoidberg747]

I agree with most of the Tarkatan changes. That character is probably the best in the game right now and not for the right reasons lol. I would be ok with him keeping the meter building and chip on his rekkas if he had to choose to make them gapless or use gaps and risk the option select. I would even be ok if they kept the gapless safe first two rekkas in order to stop the option select(I have no idea if its possible though). I agree that he doesn't need an armored blade charge thingy. He has so much range already and that is just overkill.

I disagree with is making Tail flip punishable. If you guess right you still get to pressure them or punish them if you have a fast reversal.

As for Acidic I dont think acid blood should be more unsafe and do less damage. I think it should remain the way it is except it does a little less damage. That'll help with the one place Acidic might be to strong which is in the corner. OR you could just make it so that when they are thrown it does reduced acid damage(which makes sense because he holds them in the air anyway).

 

[x TeeJay o]

I agree with most of the Tarkatan changes. That character is probably the best in the game right now and not for the right reasons lol. I would be ok with him keeping the meter building and chip on his rekkas if he had to choose to make them gapless or use gaps and risk the option select. I would even be ok if they kept the gapless safe first two rekkas in order to stop the option select(I have no idea if its possible though). I agree that he doesn't need an armored blade charge thingy. He has so much range already and that is just overkill.

I disagree with is making Tail flip punishable. If you guess right you still get to pressure them or punish them if you have a fast reversal.

As for Acidic I dont think acid blood should be more unsafe and do less damage. I think it should remain the way it is except it does a little less damage. That'll help with the one place Acidic might be to strong which is in the corner. OR you could just make it so that when they are thrown it does reduced acid damage(which makes sense because he holds them in the air anyway).

Yeah after a few talks with others the main thing most disagree with is the tail flip being unsafe. I'll update the thread to accommodate that because i have changed my views on it. Acidic acid blood if -8 should do significantly less damage. If made more unsafe then i would keep it as it is. Like i said above acidic already gets 37% 1 bar mid, so the acid blood restand and exo sting is just more free damage on top. Thanks for your feedback man appreciate it

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I hate having an 11 foot tail go right the hell through the ice Klone but whatever. You can't give it a hurtbox because that will wreck the character. And yeah i hope the rekkas get bodied.