Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

General/Other - Alien Normalizing Alien(My Suggestions)

x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
PSA: I main D'vorah & Alien so this is not a crying or downplaying thread at all. This is simply my take on the character and how i feel he should be adjusted in certain aspects of his game to level the playing field in his current build.

Now lets get straight into this. I'm going to go over what i believe needs to be adjusted by variation and general specifics. This will not be a cry for nerfs or buffs, just simply my take on how I FEEL the character should be tweaked to make him more "balanced" per say across the rest of the cast. Alien is a very good character and POSSIBLY top 5. BUT there are so many good characters and new MU experiences we have yet to learn so I'm not making a leap about a top 5 at this moment. I don't think anyone can make a credible top 5 ANYTIME SOON in my opinion. Please try to remember these are MY OPINIONS and if you don't agree I 100% understand. Lets keep this convo civil please and if u have any suggestions or opinions of your own i would love to discuss with you.With that said lets get into what i feel about this sexy beast!





ABOUT ALIEN:
We all know that he has crazy range and good mixups. He is VERY unsafe string wise besides 2 strings. This is essentially a moot point because all of his strings can be made safe with tail flip(see bottom for tail flip suggestion). He pretty much dominates the neutral game and people say hes very defensive which i agree to a certain point, but he is a monster on offense as well. He has VERY good armor moves as well including an armored launcher that has great range. He also is a DECENT anti zoner depending on variation and his crawl special move. Last but not least, he has sweet anti air options as well.Overall, this dudes a beast. Literally. Lets hop into some things I personally feel should be adjusted.



GENERAL
Tail Flip currently is -7 on block and is an overhead special. I feel this should be -13 on block. It is his mixup option from his b3 and f4 and essentially makes him have a safe 50/50. I don't know if there is anyone in the game with safe 50/50's or in Aliens case safe mixups to this degree(if there are please let me know) and i don't think he should have them either ESPECIALLY with his range. Its kind of silly.
***PLEASE READ: AFTER DISCUSSING WITH A FEW MEMBERS, I HAVE DECIDED TAIL FLIP SHOULD REMAIN -7!! DISREGARD PLZ***


B3- Make this -17 instead of -9 on block, add 10 recover frames, and remove his step forward that he does to normalize b3 into specials for mixups. Currently Alien has a reach as far as midscreen and can be special cancelled into tail flip(-7), tail snag(-15, but from max range is safe), rekkas(self explanatory),and exo sting. I mentioned these specials only because they are all safe at max range b3.


J4- Now I REALLY don't know if this should be adjusted because honestly i don't feel its too OP. But if i did have a suggestion i would say adjusted hitbox on it similar to lao j2. Its kinda crazy at times, but sometimes it completely goes through the opponent if you can believe that lol.



Kanes Son (2,1,4)- Up from -14 to -5

F4- Fix whiffing issues on low hitbox characters who are crouching(EX:Mileena)

Acidic

DB4(Acid Blood) Up from -8 to -11
This move is pretty much what a lot of people hate about acidic to begin with. It does cray stack damage and is a restand.Technically it is "unsafe" but come on, the whole cast doesn't have standing 1's of 7 frames and even still it has a tiny bit of pushback/ block stun. Kung Lao and reptile shouldn't be the only ones in this game that can reversal this on block its pretty sad. Mileena can't roll it, so please don't say she can. She can armor through the gap in his strings that are cancelled into acid blood EXCEPT for 112.

Acid Blood DOT(Damage Over Time) reduced. This is HUGE because good lord this thing does DAMAGE. It does incredible stack damage and since alien has mixups, he can hit u with multiple 2 hit combos that do a ton. Example below


https://gfycat.com/HeavyUnacceptableEmperorshrimp


Obviously this isn't optimized I'm just showing an example of how crazy the damage can be even with little to no effort. Throw in the fact that its all a guessing game and well yeah, u get the point.



Konjurer

To be honest this one i can't really find anything that needs to be TONED down. I do believe that he has issues with the facehugger whiffing on airborne opponents that needs to be addressed. The hard to blockables should be addressed as well but I'm' not sure that's a huge issue at the moment because in my experience its really unreliable as you can just wake up on Alien and punish him for free while he loses a bar.


Tarkatan(Gulp)

Okay before i even get started with this variation, IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT THE REKKAS ARE HARD TO MAKE SAFE. THEY SHOULD NOT BE SAFE AT ANY POINT AND HE REALLY DOESN'T NEED THEM TO BE. I was a big advocate of these rekkas being safe on week 1 of his release initially because i thought yeah well what the heck its hard to make safe anyway and u can't do them in a real match consistently. Honestly it doesn't even matter if u get them safe or not, they are already massively good because they can be jailed from ANY ONE OF HIS STRINGS. They also reach from mid screen or close to it i believe . You get 30+ from the grab ender if it hits you and the overhead and low while not as threatening are a condition tool. So add in the fact that u can be jailed from mid screen AND can't be punished well that's just not fair. I KNOW THEY HAVE GAPS AND U CAN OPTION SELECT THEM BUT ITS REALLY NOT THAT EASY OR SIMPLE. I know sonic fox armored though the rekkas but that was only because his opponent put gaps in the rekkas EVERY TIME making it insanely easy to armor through. For those who don't know, you can MAX delay the rekkas giving them gaps but safe on block. You can also do them really fast with no gaps but punishable on block. Lastly, you can make them GAPLESS AND SAFE ON BLOCK which in my opinion needs to go. I don't care how hard they are, its simply not right.Now lets get to my changes.



Tarkatan Rush(Rekkas)- NO LONGER has armor
All forms of SAFETY from any delay is removed. Only gapless if done all in one motion and is still punishable on block from any ender.

Rekkas don't jail from B3 anymore(You can armor out or jump over. Back dash would probably still catch you)



In closing, i feel like these changes would definitely make him more honest. I feel like he is unsafe on most of his strings for a reason. He has godlike range and mixups that compliment it well. The addition of him getting another safe string cancels out the fact that tail flip would be unsafe now. I realize that 214 starts with a high, but if they are poking you out of it, you still have F134 which is an advancing mid. We do not need safe mixups especially from mid screen. I feel like if we want to mix the opponent up it should be a risk and this would not kill Alien AT ALL. he would still be very good, possibly STILL top 5 because of his tools and range. B3 into tail snag on block would still essentially be safe and B3 into ex tail flip would grant you a full combo 30+ for all variations. I know for a fact there is things I probably didn't realize while going through this SO PLEASE IF I MISSED ANYTHING OR SOMETHING DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE LET ME KNOW WITHOUT GOING FULL TYM MODE ON ME.

Please feel free to discuss this with me and I will be open to everyone's thoughts on my suggestions and I wanna hear yours. What is your thoughts on Alien and how would u change him IF YOU THINK HE NEEDS IT.

-Keep in mind i use all 3 variations and have been since march 1st so this is not something i just pulled out my ass :)



@I GOT HANDS
@Pig Of The Hut
@EdenianWarrior
@scarsunseen
@Sage Leviathan
@YOMI REO
@cR Dragon
@SkyratiK
@Asodimazze
@DarksydeDash
@KingKhrystopher
@ArmedCalf
@MyronJ
@Tweedy

Sorry If I Missed Youuuu


Lets DISCUSS !!!
 
Last edited:
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
i'll agree on rekkas having armor, if you're taking out
disagree on tail flip cus it does like what 5% dmg but don't really care. i think that won't change that much and probably only hurt acidic
disagree on rekkas not being able to be made safe because last hit is a high i.e you're not option selecting armor on last hit, you're blocking then release block after the frames where it won't jail. that part alone is one of the easiest things to option select IMO. and i think he needs it. honestly the only nerf he needs is the fucking meterbuilding idk wtf they were thinking on that
on acidic i think it should scale in combo, cus d'vorah's does. other than that it's fine

still think we should wait a while before nerfing though. still don't know match up well enough specifically konjurer
 
x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
omooba said:
i'll agree on rekkas having armor, if you're taking out
disagree on tail flip cus it does like what 5% dmg but don't really care. i think that won't change that much and probably only hurt acidic
disagree on rekkas not being able to be made safe because last hit is a high i.e you're not option selecting armor on last hit, you're blocking then release block after the frames where it won't jail. that part alone is one of the easiest things to option select IMO. and i think he needs it. honestly the only nerf he needs is the fucking meterbuilding idk wtf they were thinking on that
on acidic i think it should scale in combo, cus d'vorah's does. other than that it's fine

still think we should wait a while before nerfing though. still don't know match up well enough specifically konjurer
Click to expand...
Most definitely the meter building i forgot all about that. And yeah you have a point with tail flip its just that since his range is so good that the b3 tail flip was kind of a crutch. Id be fine with it staying-7 because the MB one is full combo punished. Also about the rekkas the problem rises where as you NEED meter to option select. You wont have meter the whole game to get out of that and if the Alien player is just doing everything confirmed into safe rekkas all game well you are screwed most likely.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I can't really disagree on any of this, you seem to have a very strong understanding of the character and the nerfs you have asked for seem fair.



However, the couple of things I don't necessarily disagree" with but might add some points of contention to - tail flip is definitely a mix-up but calling it a safe 50/50 is probably pretty generous.... it only knocks down, to combo off it you need to spend a bar, which is fully punishable on block by everyone and wastes the meter if you wrong



Also, Rekka execution is irrelevant I agree, if it can be made safe, at the highest level it always will be, and you are right that this should be fixed. However to go with this change something needs to happen to stop it from being useless as well, because it can be option selected so it's also fair to assume at the highest level it always will be, meaning it will never go unpunished, so there needs to be a fix here. I don't know what the answer here is, I feel like the way to do it is make the first two hits unable to be reversal'd, meaning you have to actually input manually your armor during the gap rather then using OS reversals, so if you try armor and there is no gap you get punished for it. If the Rekka itself is changed that there is an actual guessing game involving either making a gap or making it safe, this seems the way to make it still actually a guessing game and not just another useless gimmick
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
The only thing that needs to be normalized in my opinion is the acid stacking and the fact that it is able to win rounds. Tarkartan's reckas are nothing threatening to that of which was like Tanya. Alien can easily be zoned out and he has no projectiles of his own. His 50/50s in the reckas may actually be considered gimmicks in the future because they are reactable. Furthermore, Alien doesn't have good stagger strings so it must commit to the reckas. Konjurer is fine as it is, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some buffs down the road to help it compete with the other variations. Lastly, tail flip in its current state is fine. Being negative -7 allows the opponent to pressure back easily and doing a MB tail flip afterwards is extremely risky because it is armor broken easily. Honestly, Alien's best armored move is df3 but it is unsafe and doesn't do a lot of damage.
 
Zionix

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
people can moan about alien, but theres somuch broken crap in this game that the only thing thats remptely op for me is the db4 and how easy it is to stack.'
but when the meta is to poke special cancel the game has bigger problems than the rekkas.


b12
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
The character has everything, really.

Tarkatan specifically.

- 11 frame advancing mid.

- 9 frame punisher that hits at the start of the round.

- Good pokes.

- 9 frame armor

- Jump punch that was taken away from other characters.

- 50/50 armor, one launches, one is a hard knockdown, similar to Tanya.

- 50/50 combo starters. Both under 20 frames, not far enough apart to be fuzzy guarded.

- Fullscreen armor.

- Good damage, re-stand.

- Everything ends in a hard knockdown, seriously.

I'm sure I missed a couple points, I just don't see a weakness with this character. Now the dirt, I mean, the rekkas, if executed correctly, can be made -4 with no gaps. Also, the 50/50 combo starters, don't have gaps in between them and the rekkas. Not to mention since the rekkas are specials, they have great chip and meterbuilding. If someone is conditioned by your gapless rekkas, you can make them + with gaps.

There a lot of people on here who don't understand how hard Kung Lao and Tanya were hit in the latest updates. As someone who played both of them, despite my love for Alien, i'm not willing to play a character that is probably even stronger than they were. I fear that the character will be destroyed.

I'm not sure what my suggested changes are, yet. I agree with what you posted, pretty much.

Something needs to be done. If I were to make a tier list, Alien would sit in a tier of his own. Especially Tarkatan.
 
x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Invincible Salads said:
make a non launching overhead special unsafe? then you better make Takeda's and Reptiles overhead meterless non-launching special unsafe too....


or how bout lets not do any of that?
Click to expand...
I understand where u are coming from , but understand that with taik flip being safe Alien pretty much has 0 risks for using mixups. He can cancel his j4 into tail flip and exo sting, b3 into tail flip is painfully annoying, f4 into tail flip is also good. Yeah it doesnt launch but it corner carries and if u allow yourself to get hit by the normal one, what is gonna stop u from getting hit with the MB one for a full combo. I believe b3 into tail flip is an actual combo as well which means mid screen mix ups
 
Last edited:
x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
DarksydeDash said:
The only thing that needs to be normalized in my opinion is the acid stacking and the fact that it is able to win rounds. Tarkartan's reckas are nothing threatening to that of which was like Tanya. Alien can easily be zoned out and he has no projectiles of his own. His 50/50s in the reckas may actually be considered gimmicks in the future because they are reactable. Furthermore, Alien doesn't have good stagger strings so it must commit to the reckas. Konjurer is fine as it is, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some buffs down the road to help it compete with the other variations. Lastly, tail flip in its current state is fine. Being negative -7 allows the opponent to pressure back easily and doing a MB tail flip afterwards is extremely risky because it is armor broken easily. Honestly, Alien's best armored move is df3 but it is unsafe and doesn't do a lot of damage.
Click to expand...
Actually i think his best armored move may be DB2 in tarkatan. But his rekkas are insanely good. Playing AGAINST Alien rather than playing Alien opened up my eyes to how good he truly is. Yes the rekkas are somewhat of a gimmick but DJT said it best. Just because a character has a gimmick doesnt make it bad u just need to pick and choose when to use it. You can hit confirm 2, 1, 4 and f134 into rekka grab for 36%. Thats one of the best gimmicks if i ever seen one. He also has access to db2 which launches for full combo in Tark.
 
Last edited:
x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
I GOT HANDS said:
I can't really disagree on any of this, you seem to have a very strong understanding of the character and the nerfs you have asked for seem fair.



However, the couple of things I don't necessarily disagree" with but might add some points of contention to - tail flip is definitely a mix-up but calling it a safe 50/50 is probably pretty generous.... it only knocks down, to combo off it you need to spend a bar, which is fully punishable on block by everyone and wastes the meter if you wrong



Also, Rekka execution is irrelevant I agree, if it can be made safe, at the highest level it always will be, and you are right that this should be fixed. However to go with this change something needs to happen to stop it from being useless as well, because it can be option selected so it's also fair to assume at the highest level it always will be, meaning it will never go unpunished, so there needs to be a fix here. I don't know what the answer here is, I feel like the way to do it is make the first two hits unable to be reversal'd, meaning you have to actually input manually your armor during the gap rather then using OS reversals, so if you try armor and there is no gap you get punished for it. If the Rekka itself is changed that there is an actual guessing game involving either making a gap or making it safe, this seems the way to make it still actually a guessing game and not just another useless gimmick
Click to expand...
Yeah man its like how do we make the rekkas a fair tool. U dont wanna nerf em into the ground to where they are useless and then u dont want them to break the character either. But since u can combo off rekkas i dont see why the should be safe. I mean maybe -7 for the grab ender at the least but u had the hardest time trying to figure out how to balance the rekkas
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
lookgirlitsteejay said:
I understand where u are coming from , but understand that with taik flip being safe Alien pretty much has 0 risks for using mixups. He can cancel his j4 into tail flip and exo sting, b3 into taik flip is painfully annoying, f4 into tail flip is also good. Yeah it doesnt launch but it corner carries and if u allow yourself to get hit by the normal one, what is gonna stop u from getting hit with the MB one for s full combo. I believe b3 into tail flip is an actual combo as well which means mid screen mix ups
Click to expand...
regardless, i still don't feel its that big of an issue, and so what if he has a low risk low reward mix up?

the low tail special is already unsafe to boot.

also how people are saying Tarkattan is like Kobu on crack.....if were talking last patch kobu? Not even close. Tarkattan doesnt have shit that lets him loop Back into safe rekka's like tanya's ex tonfa did. I don't even play the character, but guys were hardly a month into the new dlc. Y'all are gonna end up wrecking not just Tarkatan or Acidic, but the character as a whole. From what i hear, aparently tarkattan might even be a bit gimmicky with some of the things it can do.

Right now the only thing i can agree on is Acidic having its DoT reduced and Having air normals nerfed as well (dat ji4). Aside from that i think you guys should just wait a bit longer.
 
x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
QUAN-FUSION said:
Make it like reptiles.
Safe metreless, unsafe with metre.
Click to expand...
Its already safe, the issue is Alien has tons of range and strings that have lows in them. So if i condition u enough with my low strings, i can do that same string but cancel it into tail flip. Eventually u will get hit by a MB tail flip for a full combo. Its so much easier to defend things on paper than in a real game
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
lookgirlitsteejay said:
Its already safe, the issue is Alien has tons of range and strings that have lows in them. So if i condition u enough with my low strings, i can do that same string but cancel it into tail flip. Eventually u will get hit by a MB tail flip for a full combo. Its so much easier to defend things on paper than in a real game
Click to expand...
even if it stays -7, its still no longer their turn. and as for conditioniong someone to block a certain way before taking a risk, everyone on the cast can do that.
 
x TeeJay o

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Invincible Salads said:
regardless, i still don't feel its that big of an issue, and so what if he has a low risk low reward mix up?

the low tail special is already unsafe to boot.

also how people are saying Tarkattan is like Kobu on crack.....if were talking last patch kobu? Not even close. Tarkattan doesnt have shit that lets him loop Back into safe rekka's like tanya's ex tonfa did. I don't even play the character, but guys were hardly a month into the new dlc. Y'all are gonna end up wrecking not just Tarkatan or Acidic, but the character as a whole. From what i hear, aparently tarkattan might even be a bit gimmicky with some of the things it can do.

Right now the only thing i can agree on is Acidic having its DoT reduced and Having air normals nerfed as well (dat ji4). Aside from that i think you guys should just wait a bit longer.
Click to expand...
To be fair i dont think this is Tanya 2.0 but i also don't think he is fine. Nobody is going to use low tail up close unless u got major balls. Its safe from b3 range. Also i don't want him to be wrecked i think he'd still be amazing without the jailing rekkas. If you played him you would understand where im coming from when i say that. Aliens mixups are real and already essentially safe because of his range. Again ive said a bunch of times already i would be fine if tail flip stayed -7 i was just giving my suggestion
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
lookgirlitsteejay said:
Yeah man its like how do we make the rekkas a fair tool. U dont wanna nerf em into the ground to where they are useless and then u dont want them to break the character either. But since u can combo off rekkas i dont see why the should be safe. I mean maybe -7 for the grab ender at the least but u had the hardest time trying to figure out how to balance the rekkas
Click to expand...
I honestly just think Rekka's might be bad gameplay design for MKX, this isn't street fighter. I think the way to do it might just be making them a safe gapless block string, but like cut the chip to 1/4 and cut the metergain on the secondary hits entirely, and also REALLY tone down the corner carry. That way he doesn't get massive returns from just pressing them all game, theres nothing wrong with being able to make his 50/50 safe however when both options have like 18f start-up, or as using it a safe advancing mid, it still takes a bar to combo off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.