Noob Saibot Pre-release Discussion Thread

[Trini_Bwoi]

As if the Shadow Tackle could not get worse, it is -15 on block no matter where you are. Ex: at full screen it's still -15. Which also means at full screen you have the same hit advantage as a point blank Tackle.

 

[KyleKasady]

Unfortunately I can't get into the game till May 10 (work).

So to summarize initial impression Noob has:

Cons:

• Mediocre zoning. No full slide, tackle is not for projectile war, not good overall. The good one is spirit ball.
• Considering neutral based game, Noob doesn't have good mid range tools that would lead to damage (combos).
• And that comes to not having ways of opening, One overhead from njp (man, I didn't like that custom slow move OH shadow, but it would be nice to have one for some setups and take off-guard)

Pros:
+ He has good anti-airs
+/- Not so fast teleport that leads to combos

Did I miss anything?

 

[Hitoshura]

Unfortunately I can't get into the game till May 10 (work).

...

Did I miss anything?

Here is a list of things that I noticed.

Pros:

• Good anti-airs
• Good pokes.
• Has 3 combo starters that can be used for punishes.
• Variation 2 has great corner carry.
• Variation 2 has consistent damage both midscreen and corner.
• D4 is a deceiving low hitting poke.
• The gap between 1 and 2 in his 1,1,2 string can be flawless blocked, but pushes Noob back from the opponent, so their attack after the Flawless block does not connect and they waste 1 bar of meter.
• Most of his strings have no gaps in between them.

Cons:

• Shadow Tackle is slow and can be easily read. Can't be used as a tool for projectile trade war.
• Shadow Slide stops at half screen and is only available in variation 1.
• Noob's nuetral and footsies are okay.
• Hard to open up your opponent.
• Upknee can not be used in a block string as it goes over the opponents head. (Back in MK9 it used to provide some advantage on block and push the opponent back which would put them in a situation where if they jump they would eat an upknee and if they did anything else they would eat a tackle.)
• Unsafe on all of his special moves and some of his strings.
• No push back on block for a majority of his moves, except for 1,1,2.
• Variation 1 seems lacks corner carry and damage.
• Issues with hitbox on Shadow Tackle.
• F4,4 can't be special cancelable.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I havent actually been able to duck the second hit of f4, that would be absolutely terrible if that was made possible in a patch the move should be a low mid to since its nothing more then a non comboable /non cancellable low check

If you whiff the f4 first hit, the second hit becomes duckable.

 

[dribirut]

So I’m confused. His default variations you see in practice mode are not his tournament variations? And if not then how do you see which ones they are?

 

[Chuckyscookie]

So I’m confused. His default variations you see in practice mode are not his tournament variations? And if not then how do you see which ones they are?

When selecting the abilities for a custom variation, you can press 1 to see several presets. The ones with cup symbol besides them are the tournament ones. Or, you could just enter tournament mode

 

[ErmacMKX]

This man needs a tele slam and sickle grab variation. These presets are stupid and restrict him so much.

 

[Hitoshura]

This man needs a tele slam and sickle grab variation. These presets are stupid and restrict him so much.

He does. It's in his Complete Blackness Variation.
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I found some nice stuff with Noob in the lab yesterday and if I got time after work I'll stop by a local electronic store to pick up a flash drive and upload my findings in the video thread.

 

[RYX]

buff noob

 

[Hitoshura]

This just in, the default variations are not the tournament variations!

https://ibb.co/JmL8PWS

 

[RiBBz22]

This just in, the default variations are not the tournament variations!

Yeah it's so annoying you need to select them from presets in the customization menu...How the hell are the tournament/ranked variations not the presets??? I found out after labbing him a few hours last night and was scratching my head.

 

[Hitoshura]

Yeah it's so annoying you need to select them from presets in the customization menu...How the hell are the tournament/ranked variations not the presets??? I found out after labbing him a few hours last night and was scratching my head.

I was just told this 15 minutes ago. I have no idea why they did this.

 

[RiBBz22]

@Hitoshura we need something for tournament variation combos only. It is really going to get tiresome having to sift through info with people posting non-legit combos. Should just be a standard variation section and then I guess a swag combo thread where anything goes for people who care about that sort of thing.

I am using the Dark Sabbath variation and started last night using the following combos:

mid screen: 212~tele amp, f221~upkick
corner: 212, 4~upkick, 1, 212~upkick

I am sure there is way better stuff out there...

 

[Hitoshura]

@Hitoshura we need something for tournament variation combos only. It is really going to get tiresome having to sift through info with people posting non-legit combos. Should just be a standard variation section and then I guess a swag combo thread where anything goes for people who care about that sort of thing.

I am using the Total Blackness variation and started last night using the following combos:

mid screen: 212~tele amp, f221~upkick
corner: 212, 4~upkick, 1, 212~upkick

I am sure there is way better stuff out there...

I agree and just made a combo thread that is dedicated to impractical and custom variation combos. I will have the other threads unlocked hopefully soon and have the combo thread title changed to avoid confusion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is both the default and tournament variation Total Blackness? I'm confused.

Nice find! I found some stuff in that variation as well. I'll post it later when I get out of work today.

 

[RiBBz22]

I agree and just made a combo thread that is dedicated to impractical and custom variation combos. I will have the other threads unlocked hopefully soon and have the combo thread title changed to avoid confusion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is both the default and tournament variation Total Blackness? I'm confused.

Nice find! I found some stuff in that variation as well. I'll post it later when I get out of work today.

Sorry, I overwrote the Total Blackness with the 2nd preset. It is actually called Dark Sabbath...

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Here are my initial impressions of Noob:

The good:
-He has a mid-hitting projectile which is a rare commodity in this game. Not many projectiles that can't be crouched.
-He has so many popups. To go from 0 popups midscreen in MK9 to like 4 in MK11 is awesome.
-He can punish well without meter (2,1,2,dash...) or with meter (1,1,3,Amp. Teleport...)
-F4 and B2 are great
-All of his pokes are great (D1, D3, D4)
-Spirit ball is his best projectile

The bad:
-Noob's biggest problem is easily that he has no safe combo starters that don't start with a high. It's a bit of a showstopper for me actually. 1, F2, 2, and F3 (the popup kick) are all high. B2 is a mid but B2 xx 1+3 is unsafe against a decent portion of the roster. For everyone else...I suppose it can do, but the range of B2 is so bad I don't see it as a viable part of his game. B3 is unsafe unless as max range, but even if it were safe you can't hit confirm into Amp. Teleport. You're better off doing B3 xx Tackle. That leaves us with...F4 and B2 as his best footsies tools, two (great) attacks that only knockback and can't cancel into anything. So, you knock your opponent back for pitiful damage...which brings me to his 2nd problem.

-Noob's zoning is bad. The Tackle is now a mid, and I'm cool with that. But the startup is so slow, one of the slowest in the game. Its travel speed is average, most projectiles are fast moving in this game. It disappears when he gets hit (this is bonkers) which means no trades. And it's unsafe on block (-15). Now you may be thinking, be grateful Trini_Bwoi. It was -21 on block in MK9 so now it's much better.

WELL...it was -21 on block point blank. At a little over 1/4 screen away, it would be -15. At 1/2 screen, it was -11 and at full screen it was 0 on block. Noob's MK11 Tackle is -15 on block everywhere on the screen. So the lower recovery only helps 1/4 screen away, where you would not have been throwing Tackles in MK9 anyway (unless you're risky), and you won't be throwing tackles in MK11 because it's still unsafe at that range. So essentially the better recovery compared to MK9 does not help. It having the same block advantage everywhere also means it has the same hit advantage everywhere: 13. That means they don't have to respect any followup Tackle.

That leaves his other projectile, the Spirit Ball, which I have said it's great. But it's just a good high projectile.

 

[Hitoshura]

Sorry, I overwrote the Total Blackness with the 2nd preset. It is actually called Dark Sabbath...

No need to apologize, RiBBz. I'm at work and I have no clue what the tournament variations are called. I get out in a little bit.

Here are my initial impressions of Noob:

The good:
-He has a mid-hitting projectile which is a rare commodity in this game. Not many projectiles that can't be crouched.
-He has so many popups. To go from 0 popups midscreen in MK9 to like 4 in MK11 is awesome.
-F4 and B2 are great
-All of his pokes are great (D1, D3, D4)
-Spirit ball is his best projectile

The bad:
-Noob's biggest problem is easily that he has no safe combo starters that don't start with a high. It's a bit of a showstopper for me actually. 1, F2, 2, and F3 (the popup kick) are all high. B2 is a mid but B2 xx 1+3 is unsafe against a decent portion of the roster. For everyone else...I suppose it can do, but the range of B2 is so bad I don't see it as a viable part of his game. B3 is unsafe unless as max range,, but even if it were safe you can't hit confirm into Amp. Teleport. You're better off doing B3 xx Tackle. That leaves us with...F4 and B2 as his best footsies tools, two attacks that only knockback and can't cancel into anything. So, you knock your oppoonent back for pitiful damage...which brings me to his 2nd problem.

-Noob's zoning is bad. The Tackle is now a mid, and I'm cool with that. But the startup is so slow, one of the slowest in the game. Its travel speed is average, most projectiles are fast moving in this game. It disappears when he gets hit (this is bonkers) which means no trades. And it's unsafe on block (-15). Now you may be thinking, be grateful Trini_Bwoi. It was -21 on block in MK9 so now it's much better.

WELL...it was -21 on block point blank. At a little over 1/4 screen away, it would be -15. At 1/2 screen, it was -11 and at full screen it was 0 on block. Noob's MK11 Tackle is -15 on block everywhere on the screen. So the lower recovery only helps 1/4 screen away, where you would not have been throwing Tackles in MK9 anyway (unless you're risky), and you won't be throwing tackles in MK11 because it's still unsafe at that range. so essentially it's pointless. It having the same block advantage everywhere also means it has the same hit advantage everywhere: 13. That means they don't have to respect any followup Tackle.

That leaves his other projectile, the Spirit Ball, which I have said it's great. But it's just a good high projectile.

This is insightful.

I feel like they covered what was wrong with him in MK9, but then during development got scared that he would be too good, then decided to slow down shadow tackle and remove shadow slide from his tool kit, then make it dissapear at midscreen. He has the pokes to deal with the up close game and he has 3 great combo strings that can punish a lot in this game. Essentially if he had a good zoning kit his playstyle would be a zoner who would need to patiently block when the opponent gets close, then punish with 1 of the 3 strings we have to push them back out, then proceed to control space again. He's MK's version of Sagat. Without a good zoning kit he is just an character who has good pokes and punishes, but bad strings to be aggressive with. Like, an identity crisis almost.

 

[currentlemon]

Ouch. Looks like Noob isn't looking too good. I'm still interested in the character, but damn, he might be outclassed by other zoners right now.

 

[D. R.]

Are you making another guide for him? Your last one was insightful.

I can when finals are over. I have combos and sequences already for the character.

My hot take day 2 on Noob is he’s good but not great.

Variation 1 is trash. Tackle needs to be OH and upknee needs to hit mid or at least jail on block for this variation to even function. It’s ass currently.

Variation 2 is viable. Big damage, plus off restand, lots of options.

The lack of a legit OH makes KB b31+3 not a thing. It’s never going to happen at high level.

So many more things to discuss but I’m labbing when I’m not working on school work.

 

[Hitoshura]

Variation 1 is trash. Tackle needs to be OH and upknee needs to hit mid or at least jail on block for this variation to even function. It’s ass currently.

Variation 2 is viable. Big damage, plus off restand, lots of options.

The lack of a legit OH makes KB b31+3 not a thing. It’s never going to happen at high level.

How similar are the tournament variations to the default variations that appear when one selects a character? I found out this morning that Total Blackness and the other variation aren't the tournament ones.

 

[Mayonaka_]

As far as I'm aware, neither of his tourney variations have Sickle Slam which borderline makes him unplayable IMO. It's what makes him able to do many of his good combos. We do get Portal on one of them, but the moves are trash outside of that. I really wanted to play Noob, but honestly it may not be worth it if they plan on keeping these tourney sets. This seems to be the case for almost every character across the board. Scorp doesn't even have misery blade or demon dash on either of his tourney sets. They either need to get rid of the presets and allow customs or make new presets based on feedback or something.

 

[M2Dave]

As far as I'm aware, neither of his tourney variations have Sickle Slam which borderline makes him unplayable IMO. It's what makes him able to do many of his good combos. We do get Portal on one of them, but the moves are trash outside of that. I really wanted to play Noob, but honestly it may not be worth it if they plan on keeping these tourney sets. This seems to be the case for almost every character across the board. Scorp doesn't even have misery blade or demon dash on either of his tourney sets. They either need to get rid of the presets and allow customs or make new presets based on feedback or something.

Noob's damage output is above average in his second tournament variation with the launching EX tele-slam. He does not need more combo options. The real problem is that none of his advancing normal attacks are special cancelable so he rarely has an opportunity to do combos. His zoning does not compensate for this weakness. While the spirit ball is a great projectile, the shadow tackle has major flaws, as many Noob players have meticulously explained over the last couple of pages in this thread.

 

[RiBBz22]

Noob's damage output is above average in his second tournament variation with the launching EX tele-slam. He does not need more combo options. The real problem is that none of his advancing normal attacks are special cancelable so he rarely has an opportunity to do combos. His zoning does not compensate for this weakness. While the spirit ball is a great projectile, the shadow tackle has major flaws, as many Noob players have meticulously explained over the last couple of pages in this thread.

Shadow tackle is extremely weak right now, but his real big issue is that all of his launching strings start with highs and no one is going to be blocking Noob high anyways. I agree that his damage and combo-ability are not issues whatsoever. It's fun to use sickle slam, but definitely not needed at all.

 

[D. R.]

This character isn’t a zoner. Lol he’s akin to MK9 Noob in that you want to get them to the corner and harass them.

How similar are the tournament variations to the default variations that appear when one selects a character? I found out this morning that Total Blackness and the other variation aren't the tournament ones.

Not similar at all. I’m finding sickle slam isn’t needed anymore since most of his strings you’d confirm off of have 3 hits or you just carry them to the corner off of f221 whatever.

 

[Hitoshura]

This character isn’t a zoner. Lol he’s akin to MK9 Noob in that you want to get them to the corner and harass them.

Not similar at all. I’m finding sickle slam isn’t needed anymore since most of his strings you’d confirm off of have 3 hits or you just carry them to the corner off of f221 whatever.

What do you find to be the characters faults?