No longer S-tier?

[DCT]

No matter what you say THTB I'm sticking to Kano, I liked how the character plays and I can live through the nerf. The one thing that made me happy that I was playing Kano was the day of the patch (not hotfix) for xbox 360 I was playing online against a guy who had a match and I picked Kano as I was not spamming upballs and doing combos after the first round I heard him say "Woah, A good Kano that's new". So in all I'm sticking to Kano

Did you read what THTB said? Not being a jerk here 'cause I'm curious since he never once said that any Kano player should drop him just because of a few nerfs and dropping barely half a tier from bottom S to A+ that's all and as someone who has picked up Kano week 2 I have no plans on dropping him, never really spammed much with him anyway I only used upball when I felt it was the best move for the situation same with the knife toss.

 

[cyke_out]

I'm still going to use Kano and I'm still going to go online and spam Knives and up-ball, becuase most people suck.

So business as usual for me.

 

[THTB]

Yeah, there's no reason to switch from Kano at all. He's still a good character and still capable of winning.

I went in practice and checked the nerfs. Even just by looking, you can feel it, but it's not going to kill him off completely.

 

[Gthunda866]

Yeah, there's no reason to switch from Kano at all. He's still a good character and still capable of winning.

I went in practice and checked the nerfs. Even just by looking, you can feel it, but it's not going to kill him off completely.

Guess I read your other message wrong sorry lol just hope they patch Skarlet soon so I don't have to go through people calling her broken when I play her

 

[JulianH1001]

Just how bad is the knife nerf exactly? I went into practice and noticed a slight change, but I don't know if I would have if I didn't know there was a nerf. I was still able to zone very well against a friend with Kano, and they still do the whopping 9% and are just as fast unless I'm incorrect. The only thing I noticed was a little added recovery to the animation so that you can't do one after the other as fast as before. Still seems quite fast to me though.

 

[chessmaster]

why do people complain when their character gets nerfed? unless you play in tournaments, i think people take this way too serious. again i understand if play tournaments, but for everybody else it should be just a game and as such EVERYONE shouldn't be outraged and acting like fucking kids when something like this happens. kano upball got nerfed. SO WHAT? to me winning with a "low tier" character is just that much more satisfying and rewarding. they have nothing to say when they lose.

 

[Massive Kano]

"He's still a good character and still capable of winning."

Just to point out: I never said anything that contradicted this. Ever. The only person that did is that CoS fellow, and I get the impression that he's not taken very seriously in general.

I object to one thing and one thing only: Dropping Kano a tier arbitrarily when his record of usage in high level play in no way justified it. If it was truly necessary to modify any problematic special moves, a way should have been found to do so that didn't also reduce his overall viability.

"unless you play in tournaments, i think people take this way too serious."

Even tournament fans and spectators get a kick out of seeing their favorite characters excel. Even when they're not the ones controlling them.

 

[HexaDecimus]

Kano is still easily S-Tier.

There I said it

 

[Massive Kano]

"Kano is still easily S-Tier. "

Awesome. Tell me more?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

You're in the wrong forums Yamo.

I think you would be more at home at TRMK.org

A lot of whiners and scrubs go there.

 

[Check]

I used Kano today and he felt kinda slow. I'd use Noob over him now.

 

[HexaDecimus]

"Kano is still easily S-Tier. "

Awesome. Tell me more?

I always regarded Up Ball spam and Knife spam as something that made Kano easier to play, not necessarily more powerful. A lot of his more complex shenanigans got tossed aside real quick when the pressure was on and your brain instantly went to 3 Up Balls in a row instead of something tailored to the specific situation.

I'm actually playing Kano better now, since I'm forced to hold my balls in when it's innapropriate (hrhrhr) and I find myself doing the right thing instead, which nets more damage. Up Ball is still the go-to solution for Raiden, Cyrax, CSZ, and Kung Lao teleports if your reaction time is good enough. It's still one of the best anti-airs in the business, and it's still a great insta punish for people whiffing punches, kicks or whatever in front of you.

You just can't throw it out whenever you want anymore. If it's going to be blocked, don't Up Ball. They didn't nerf the damage, they just added a little bit of pain for using it without thinking. The big deficit that needs to be met is the player has to try harder, once that happens Kano gets right back up to S-Tier again.

I'm glad all these Kanos are jumping ship. People will slowly become less aware of Kano again and those who keep the faith will be rewarded with wins.

 

[MagicMan357]

Kano for life!!! and charlie

 

[Massive Kano]

"People will slowly become less aware of Kano again and those who keep the faith will be rewarded with wins."

There's a lot to be said for that. Are you having much luck with his combos online? Kind of funny that somebody with a reputation for being a simple, easy character would have to dash cancel and/or rejuggle so low to the ground so much for decent damage. It's quite a trick to nail 'em regularly.

"I'd use Noob over him now."

well, Noob obviously has the high/low shadow mindgames going for him, but he always has. What else do you think gives him the edge?

 

[MagicMan357]

Seriously if they are gonna change kano's knife, there is no legit reason why they shouldnt get rid of his crap damage scaling and allow for more options.

His upball will be punishable (like it should) but the damn start up frames? Are you kidding? And now he cant zone as good as before (which i dont mind so much because zoning in mk isnt my forte) but it seems like they just want to make him crap.

Theyve been pulling this shit since the 3d MK's and it makes no sense at all. The dude is classified as a ruthless powerhouse yet they make him handicapped and weak. I was so pissed in deception when kira had all his moves but was way more powerful i mean WTF?

Now in this game his combo game is pretty weak which makes no sense because he has alot of great chians and does crap damage. Is kano a joke character now? Come on, this horseshit has been going on for to long.

 

[Massive Kano]

MagicMan357,

Agreed 100%.

 

[HexaDecimus]

You seem to be having the time of your life deliberately pissing yourself off about this.

Then again, I did say the less people play Kano, the better.

 

[M2Dave]

I have to applaud Yamo for being honest and passionate. There are, however, no good reasons for character loyalty in fighting games simple because developers can take a dump on your hard work in a heart beat. You can practice combos, come up with strategies, and play thousands of matches with a certain character. In the end, NRS can take away all your hard work by listening to ignorant, angry people and patching what they consider to be overpowered. While I still agree with the Up Ball nerf, the Knife Toss should not have been toned down in any way, shape, or form. In fact, Kano should have received buffs to compensate for the Up Ball nerf. The truth is that Kano went even with most S tier characters in the game, even with the safer Up Ball. Tom Brady even told me that Kano lost 6:4 to Sub Zero and Kung Lao. So, Kano was powerful but certainly not broken.

I enjoy TYM, but I have to say that the Kano forum has been unbearable since the Up Ball nerf. I have never seen so many people whining and crying on a supposed high level MK web site. Keep such behavior on gamefaqs.com, please. At least there will be no more tears in here, which is the only positive aspect about Kano's nerfs as far as I am concerned.

 

[Xstatic]

After playing with him for awhile after the nerfs, Kano is pretty slow now. The extra recovery on knife and increased start-up on upball can really be felt. Kano still has a lot of good tools, but that knife is what really put him over the top, IMO. I'm not happy, but I'll get used to it...

 

[ADR Napalm]

. . .and my bad for going off the deep end earlier in the thread, I apologize, rage posting at its worse. But it still does not make sense to me how NRS nerfed Kano at all.

1: +2 start of frames for his Upball. Why? The start up WAS fine, it needs to be fast on start up to react to a lot of things in the game. IMO give those +2 start up frames back to his start up and add it to his punishment on block that will take it from +6 to +8, which will make it more punishable and less spammable. Is spammable a word? Kano has no teleport and needs his Upball to start up faster.

2: +6 recovery frames on block for his Upball. GREAT, this needed to be done. Like I said in #1 make it +8 and give his start up frames back.

3: More cool down on his knife throw. What? His knives WERE fine to begin with, any competent player can deal with his knife zoning, PLUS you're giving all these characters EX ARMOR to better deal with zoning, which is fine, but the knives needed to be left alone.

All hostility aside I think they went a little to far with Kano's nerfs. I have over 2500 games played with Kano and will still continue to TRY and cope with what they did with him, but like CHECK said, he just feels sluggish and heavy now. Hell, give his blocked Upball recovery +10 frames but give him his old Upball start up and knife speed back. And I know for a fact high level and even casual players who don't even main or play Kano will agree with me here.

His combo damage already suffers. . .

 

[Massive Kano]

I agree, CoS. Thanks for making your objections clearer.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I always regarded Up Ball spam and Knife spam as something that made Kano easier to play, not necessarily more powerful. A lot of his more complex shenanigans got tossed aside real quick when the pressure was on and your brain instantly went to 3 Up Balls in a row instead of something tailored to the specific situation.

Up BalI'm actually playing Kano better now,

Ex-fucking-actly. That's why I stopped playing the character, I played him before the up ball shenanigans and he was a semii-respectable character then which at least required some cognitive ability. I still think his x-ray is somewhat of a fail safe move, yeah...it's somewhat risky but besides a breaker, what else does he have in terms of meter?

I really would like to see his air and horizontal balls have a faster recovery, I love those, but man...you're just asking to be hit with a meaty combo on block. Risk outweighs the reward on those. To me, that's the ONE thing that makes Kano truly unique and everyone avoids using them due to the severe risk factor involved.

He also needs better combo options, or at the very least, better damage scaling on his combos. I would happily trade in his x-ray damage for better combo options/damage and reduced risk air/horizontal balls. Even if you were to reduce the damage on his x-ray to 30% it'd still be good...because it's friggin' unblockable. I hated winning rounds with that ridiculous 41% unblockable; talk about easy. Forget the knives, who cares about those. We've got enough bland projectiles in this game.

My concern however with Kano getting reduced recovery on his air ball/horizontal ball is his mixups. As far as I'm aware, every character that can teleport/telekick with no risk involved don't have low mixups. F3+B2 is very, very, good. However, the combo options/damage after that are pretty meh. Mileena can get right in your face with her telekick with essentially no risk besides a throw, but her low mixups are non-existent. Hell, she can't do anything in that department if you're blocking high. Perhaps the frame properties on his F3+B2 and B2 overhead could be swapped. B2 overhead is pretty glaringly obvious and slow. If you're hit by it, you should know better.

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Every Kano player whining about getting nerfed just needs to calm down. Kano is still very good with safe strings. His BnB still does 35 to 38%. His mixups are still good. His wakeups options are still good. If you guys saw JTCircus play at CEO, you'd see how a true Kano is meant to be played. He rarely ever upballed and used frametraps like a pro. And this was when the upball was still OP. The reason it was nerfed was because lower tier characters could not punish it AT ALL. The changes were necessary. All it means is wins with Kano now are gonna be much more well deserved.

And if you're still bitching, look at it this way: Baraka got nerfed as well. I'll say that again...BARAKA got NERFED. You don't see me complaining about it :/

 

[ADR Napalm]

It's not about him getting nerfed at all, it's about how he got nerfed. . .

And are there threads regarding the exact changes made in the hotfix? and the pre Skarlet patch?

 

[cyke_out]

Mileena can get right in your face with her telekick with essentially no risk besides a throw, but her low mixups are non-existent. Hell, she can't do anything in that department if you're blocking high.

B+3 gives her insane frame advantage and can be canceled into a roll for a low combo starter, off of a blocked jump in punch, her low B+3, or overhead u+4 can't be stopped. she also has one the best low pokes in the game with d+4 with huge range. Mileena just does fine in the lows department.

I've been using her while waiting for Kano's hotfix. And now I'm doing better with her than with kano