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Match-up Discussion Nightwing Match-Up Discussion (1.06 and on)

NightwingDayZero

Truth, justice and the American way.
Has anyone played SaltFace's HQ? The zoning is very hard to get by in this match up, any advice? HQ has a good nuetral game just as her zoning beats NW up.
Walk. Walk a lot.

Nightwing has no real anti air. Use j3 often.

You shouldnt be in staff outside the corner.
 

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
I like how he said Saltfaces HQ and not some other random HQ lol Saltface is on another lvl of HQ
Yea, I got opened up pretty good, but it was an eye opening experience just to see HQ at her potential. It's funny because I play with guys who train with Saltface like my boy Kenny, but Salt's HQ is on that next level. It's definitely a fun match up can't sleep on her mix ups once you get in.

HQ has a 7 frame D1 thats +1 ... I notice most HQ go for NJ2 (6 frames) after the D1 or they'll go for B22 after D1. My homegirl just goes straight with HQ's F2 into Tantrum Stance(-7 on block), I like work my D12 > F213 pressure right after just to get going and keep HQ in the corner.
 
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SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
Thanks for the compliment man. To get through HQ's zoning you have to guess Foward Dash or Jump In once your about mid range. After that if I'm wrong on my read your in.
 

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
Thanks for the compliment man. To get through HQ's zoning you have to guess Foward Dash or Jump In once your about mid range. After that if I'm wrong on my read your in.
Yea man, good to see you back on the forums. Keep doing your thing for the HQs and the Emprs!
 

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
I've been in the labs with batgirl scum bagging it up lol yo AK SaltFace I wouldn't mind getting games in but I dont get off work till late. Ive only played like 3 HQ's. I played one at NEC in casuals forgot his name >.> lol I know he had dreads or braids lol
 

SaltFace NS

Ultimate Mileena Exterminator
I've been in the labs with batgirl scum bagging it up lol yo AK SaltFace I wouldn't mind getting games in but I dont get off work till late. Ive only played like 3 HQ's. I played one at NEC in casuals forgot his name >.> lol I know he had dreads or braids lol
You fought Kitana Prime & sure send a PM to my XBL or PSN & I'll add you.
 

Joker's Shoes

Now Simply Extraordinaire
The fuck am I supposed to do against Grundy? As soon as he gets in I'm screwed. He comes at me with some grab that has armor and there's nothing I can do to stop it unless I'mn already halfway through a staff spin. Even then it absorbs a ton of hits.
 

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
The fuck am I supposed to do against Grundy? As soon as he gets in I'm screwed. He comes at me with some grab that has armor and there's nothing I can do to stop it unless I'mn already halfway through a staff spin. Even then it absorbs a ton of hits.
MB Staff spin breaks his armor. Respect his WC cancels, MB swamp hands and don't try to jump on his because his D2 and air grab is pretty strong. Grundy has a good dash too so he can get under Wing Dings fairly easy and they're really negative on block so it'll just give advantage to Grundy. Only throw them if you make the read and have enough distance, but that won't beat Grundy and you shouldn't rely on them to win the match.
 

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
The fuck am I supposed to do against Grundy? As soon as he gets in I'm screwed. He comes at me with some grab that has armor and there's nothing I can do to stop it unless I'mn already halfway through a staff spin. Even then it absorbs a ton of hits.
B2 is throw invulnerable in escrima, and stand 2 is throw invulnerable in staff.

B2 flipkick is good for dealing with WCC. Even if you mistime the b2 to be throw invulnerable he has to eat the flipkick/walks past it. You can mb b3 all of his offensive options after 112 unless he does a walking corpse cancel through your mb b3. Play footsies with him, and watch for mb swamp feet when you are zoning him on the ground. You can bait it easily with ground spark dash cancels into wing dings.
 

Joker's Shoes

Now Simply Extraordinaire
B2 is throw invulnerable in escrima, and stand 2 is throw invulnerable in staff.

B2 flipkick is good for dealing with WCC. Even if you mistime the b2 to be throw invulnerable he has to eat the flipkick/walks past it. You can mb b3 all of his offensive options after 112 unless he does a walking corpse cancel through your mb b3. Play footsies with him, and watch for mb swamp feet when you are zoning him on the ground. You can bait it easily with ground spark dash cancels into wing dings.
Alright, more B2 it is. I definitely don't mix up my game enough. Not using flipkick often and usually sticking to the same few setups. Not good for the Dick.

Appreciate the help. Love the Youtube channel, by the way.
 

NightwingDayZero

Truth, justice and the American way.
I posted this in TakeAChance 's thread, but it was hidden by off topic discussion so I'm not sure if it's been seen. I put a relatively decent amount of thought and effort into this and I would rather it not go under in a thread of trolls. I have not posted tech, I have not posted setups. All that I have really contributed to this community has been a (until recently) constant stream of Nightwing gameplay against high level competition. And so here is a culmination of all that I have learned using Nightwing in the last 8 months given the Sinestro MU as my base for discussion. Some of you may already know and understand what I am posting, but if this post helps just one player in some backwoods part of the country - I'll have accomplished all that I have set out to do.

NorCal Joe's Guide to Risk vs. Reward:


Over the course of my time with Injustice, I have played Nightwing, and only Nightwing. I have played many fighting games over the course of my youth, but Injustice marks the first fighter I have ever taken to a competitive level.

I have been grinding the Sinestro MU with Nightwing for the last 8 months. Between the Nightwing nerfs and the Sinestro buffs - the MU hasn't become any easier, but I have learned many, many things about Nightwing, about overcoming bad match ups and about fighting games in general. That is what I am going to share with you in this thread.

So let's get started.

THE GAME PLAN:
Before you sit down to fight any character, especially Sinestro - you need to be going in with a gameplan, specifically this gameplan: Corner and apply pressure.

Nightwing's game plan isn't "I'm going to use this mixup" or "this tech will blow him up." That stuff is great for what it is - it will expose players who don't understand the MU or Nightwing as a character, it will expose players who have shitty defense or catch people with their pants down. What happens when you fight a player who isn't getting opened up? What are you going to do when you can't throw him, you can't seem to get a hit, and he's not swinging on your frame traps? The first time I ever threw cross up j2 flipkick at PR Balrog - he fucking blocked it. Can you imagine how mind fucked I was when my sickest mixup that EVERYONE gets hit by was blocked? It immediately sent the message home - I can't rely on my opponent to give me the game.

When you play Nightwing in Injustice - you need to understand - the key to consistent success is actively outplaying your opponent. You're not getting your wins on autopilot. The best way to do this is with immaculate pressure best achieved by placing your opponent in the corner.

From this point forward you are going to think of this game, this matchup - every matchup - as a collection of resources. The resources you are going to be hoarding are:

1. Meter
2. Health
3. Time
4. Space

These are precious resources, made even more so precious by the nature of this match up. Every bit of your risk/reward will be weighted against the above. Every spacing consideration, every combo you execute, every time you want to challenge a wakeup or go for a cross up - you will consider all of the above. If you don't know what I am talking about or you don't understand these 4 things - that's fine, I will discuss each of these things in depth as we continue, but for now I want these engraved in your mind.

Fighting Mid Stage:

Zoning characters in Injustice love holding back. Dashes are extremely punishable and they will work to exploit this. You must understand that dashing is your reward for blocking, not vice versa. You will walk. However painful it may be. So long as Sinestro is holding back, you will hold forward. What we are doing here is hoarding the most critical of resources in this MU - space. When you walk forward you are claiming all that is behind you for your own. Initially, it may not seem like much, but very quickly your opponent will realize he is walking himself into the corner. When this happens, you force him to commit to something. This is where the MU is won. Space control.

When Sinestro stands his ground you have to consider your spacing. You want to fight this MU just outside of Sinestro's jump arc which coincidentally is approximately his b12 max distance. Your best tool in this matchup is the Escrima Spark. When spaced and timed correctly this can be used to simultaneously duck and disrupt Sinestro's fear blasts. This may also be used as a tool to harass Sinestro's ring charges. By throwing Escrima Sparks you begin to condition your opponent to be more reserved with his horizontal space control efforts. However - Sinestro will beat this option with Boulder outright. He will get damage. He will get trait charge. He will recover space. This is counter productive to Nightwing winning the MU. When you see Sinestro begin to throw boulders, you must recognize that you are conditioning this behavior. This opens the window for Escrima Spark Dash Cancels. Boulders are absurdly unsafe. Boulders have incredible start up. Traitless boulders are a cry for help. An appropriately spaced Escrima Spark Dash Cancel to whiff a boulder - is a full combo and a corner carry. This is what we want. This is how we win.

If I'm making it sound easy, it's because I am. The reality is you will have to make critical reads at this range consistently. Both Escrima Spark and Wingdings - your key harassing tools, are beaten by one move - Boulder. Should you make one bad read on an Escrima spark - you're eating a boulder and giving Sinestro trait. Should you miss your spacing with wingdings - you're eating a fear blast, being sent to full screen AND allowing Sinestro trait. Should Sinestro READ your wingdings - you're eating a boulder, being sent to full screen AND allowing your opponent to build trait. Should you lose anywhere in your neutral game - Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. You're back to square one and that much closer to declaring bankruptcy.

"but Joe! when do I get to press buttons?!"

There may come a point when Sinestro will get sick of your Escrima Spark/SparkCancel horseshit. This is when boulders aren't working, this is when fear blasts aren't working. This is when you aren't giving the match away with wreckless dashing and whiff punished b2s. The best example of this I can think of - B2 loses outright to Air Fear Axe. Our best footsie tool is negated entirely by Air Fear Axe. I have personally witnessed b2 whiffing straight through Sinestro. The problem is that b2 is only a functional normal so long as your opponent stays grounded. b2 loses to jump ins, b2 loses to Air Fear Axe. b2 however, spaced correctly - beats Sinestro's b12. b2 also works wonders for punishing opponents attempting to dash in.

Alternatively, Nightwing can jump into the air with j3, and then delayed cancel the whiff into wingdings. j3 is arguably one of the best air to air normals in the game, unfortunately it's hitbox and Nightwing's jump arc means that Nightwing has to already be on top of his opponent. You will have to make the read, and if you make an incorrect read - you must follow up with MB wingdings to make yourself safe. This however, effectively ends your pressure. It should also be noted that j3 will lose to neutral jump fear axe if you're looking for them to jump forward. The read has to be spot on. Getting consistent reads with j3 will be key to convincing your opponent that his Air Fear Axe is figured out and he'll have to beat you honestly.

How to get in with spark cancels:

To get in with spark cancels you need to condition your opponent to block them. This can be done by ducking a fear blast with escrima spark. Your opponent will be -18. This gives you the opportunity to dash in once for free. Immediately after dashing, escrima spark again. Now the mixup here is whether you are going to let it rip or if you are going to dash in b2. The mixup really isn't that special - if your opponent isn't afraid of the ground spark he can b12 punish your dash - but that's the mixup. For this reason, occasionally I will dash in their face and let an Escrima spark rip. I communicate to my opponent that I'm not afraid to do it. If he eats that second ground spark - at that range - you're in his face. His other option is to neutral jump axe or jump in on your projectile attack. The risk here is real - but the reward is the opportunity to work your opponent up close.

Fighting your opponent cornered:

Before we get started in how to fight your cornered opponent, let's talk about what it means to have your opponent cornered. Go to training mode. Push your opponent to the corner. Perform Staff stand 2. Back up until you are doing staff stand 2 at maximum reach distance. This is the default range for Nightwing players across the board. If you are having difficulty reading your opponent. If you feel even the slightest bit concerned about your ability to contain your opponent. This is where you will stand. Going forward into fighting your cornered opponent - I will not cover the numerous mixups, setups, cross ups or any other horseshit shenanigans - my objective is simple. Containment.

You have finally got your opponent cornered. Here is where you want your opponent. The single most important aspect of the match is containing your opponent to that corner. All of Nightwing's best mixups, all of Nightwing's high damage combos, all of Nightwing's effectiveness - relies on your ability to contain your opponent in that corner. Unless you got some great reads early on - you will be depending on this corner containment to win a favorable life lead precluding your opponent's clash.

"But Joe! I can't d1 from here! This is insane!" mashing d1 against your opponent isn't going to win you a game. j2 1f1 ground pound isn't going to win you a game. Remember, we're not talking about how to beat xXxYOLOSWAGMLG420xXx in some meaningless online ranked match. All of your mixups are failing you. This guy can't be opened up on defense. So how do you win?

By keeping your opponent contained, he can no longer whiff punish you. You are whiff punishing him. By keeping your opponent contained he no longer has the freedom of back dashing out of pressure. You limit his options so intensely that every decision becomes an unfavorable decision. Dashing forward? Eat a staff standing 1. Neutral jumping? Eat a staff standing 2. Whiffing a normal? Staff standing 1. Trying to jump out? Air to air j2. All of these strikes lead to full corner combo. You don't need to have incredible reactions because the staff does all the work. The spacing I described allows for a degree of forgiveness. Maybe you didn't expect him to attempt jumping over you three fucking times in a row? Well, you had the space to see it coming before you had to do something about it.

Another reason why we stand at maximum standing 2 range. Unless you are going for a MB F3 on your opponent's wakeup - back off a little. You do not want to give up the corner because you got hit with some stupid brain dead wakeup that in hindsight you should have seen coming. And the last thing you need is for your opponent to wake up with throw. Should your opponent wake up with back throw - you now own the least amount of space - your most desired resource.

Also, if you are standing directly on top of your opponent and they wake up with a jump forward - they've just got away with murder and the pressure is off.

Fighting the Clock. A brief overview of Risk vs. Reward and Fighting Traited Sinestro

In case you hadn't noticed a trend. Much of the discussion above pertained heavily to risk vs. reward. And so will the discussion revolving around fighting traited Sinestro.

A traited up Sinestro changes the entire match up in so far that the risk vs. reward is heavily in his favor in so many indescribable ways.

So instead of going down every possible situation let's do some specific theory fighting.

You've fought the match up correctly. You have the life lead up by 40%. Sinestro is at 30% health no longer has clash and he's just traited up completely. He has 3 bars of trait, 4 bars of meter and he's full screen. There is 35 seconds left on the clock.

In this situation. I would just walk forward. No dashing. I will eat all the chip. At this rate I am trying to exhaust his resources. He will burn his meter as I approach. He might even try to catch me walking forward with his trait - burning one of those as well. Once I get to Sinestro's jump arc aka his b12 range - I am not going to commit to anything outside of my favored risk/reward. He might go for frame traps or unblockable setups. I want him burning that trait. The more mixups and frame traps he puts me in - the more I have him burning that trait off hoping I take a swing. I will get close enough for him to jump in and start neutral jumping with MB wingdings. I will not do Escrima Spark cancels because I do not want to eat MB fear blast trait combos. If I get AA'd with a fear blast - I'm back at full screen at the cost of 9% health. Low risk.

Sinestro's strings aren't difficult to block. They're just awkward. Start blocking in the standing position, - then block low. This works for all of his strings. None of them are really mixups. They're just awkward and counterintuitive to block.

I will let him get away with murder. If he goes for a grab. I will try to late tech, otherwise I will eat the grab as well. I will take the 10%. I would rather take the 10% and extend the match further, than eat a 25-30% combo and be forced into a situation where either I will 1. wager with less meter than my opponent or 2. be put in another 50/50 situation. Remember what we discussed earlier about putting our opponent in an uncomfortable situation? About how we limit our opponent's options? These are your options if you get throw whiff punished here. And they're not good.

"Why Joe? Why are you letting him get away with all this shit?" Because so long as I have the life lead - I am going to win by default. If I play it patiently enough, the timer will do all the work for me. Eventually he is going to burn through his resources, he is going to make a critical mistake. He HAS to do something wild to make something happen before the timer runs out - otherwise he will lose. At this point I don't have to do anything. I can even start jumping back with wing dings once he gets close.

Does this mean every time Sinestro has trait I am going to let him walk all over me? No. Ask Cowboy how much I give a fuck about his trait if an interactable OTG gives it to him in the first 15 seconds. I go in. I disrespect it. I'll burn all the resources I have to get him off of it.

I'm cutting this short. I hope this is helpful. I'm very willing to discuss NW's bad MUs. I have ground out his bad MUs obsessively and have a considerable amount of experience with Cyborg, Black Adam, and Hawkgirl. Unfortunately I haven't played Injustice in nearly a month so my knowledge won't be relevant for much longer. Jago is a considerably better character than Nightwing. I'm enjoying having anti airs and walkspeed and shit.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
I posted this in TakeAChance 's thread, but it was hidden by off topic discussion so I'm not sure if it's been seen. I put a relatively decent amount of thought and effort into this and I would rather it not go under in a thread of trolls. I have not posted tech, I have not posted setups. All that I have really contributed to this community has been a (until recently) constant stream of Nightwing gameplay against high level competition. And so here is a culmination of all that I have learned using Nightwing in the last 8 months given the Sinestro MU as my base for discussion. Some of you may already know and understand what I am posting, but if this post helps just one player in some backwoods part of the country - I'll have accomplished all that I have set out to do.

NorCal Joe's Guide to Risk vs. Reward:


Over the course of my time with Injustice, I have played Nightwing, and only Nightwing. I have played many fighting games over the course of my youth, but Injustice marks the first fighter I have ever taken to a competitive level.

I have been grinding the Sinestro MU with Nightwing for the last 8 months. Between the Nightwing nerfs and the Sinestro buffs - the MU hasn't become any easier, but I have learned many, many things about Nightwing, about overcoming bad match ups and about fighting games in general. That is what I am going to share with you in this thread.

So let's get started.

THE GAME PLAN:
Before you sit down to fight any character, especially Sinestro - you need to be going in with a gameplan, specifically this gameplan: Corner and apply pressure.

Nightwing's game plan isn't "I'm going to use this mixup" or "this tech will blow him up." That stuff is great for what it is - it will expose players who don't understand the MU or Nightwing as a character, it will expose players who have shitty defense or catch people with their pants down. What happens when you fight a player who isn't getting opened up? What are you going to do when you can't throw him, you can't seem to get a hit, and he's not swinging on your frame traps? The first time I ever threw cross up j2 flipkick at PR Balrog - he fucking blocked it. Can you imagine how mind fucked I was when my sickest mixup that EVERYONE gets hit by was blocked? It immediately sent the message home - I can't rely on my opponent to give me the game.

When you play Nightwing in Injustice - you need to understand - the key to consistent success is actively outplaying your opponent. You're not getting your wins on autopilot. The best way to do this is with immaculate pressure best achieved by placing your opponent in the corner.

From this point forward you are going to think of this game, this matchup - every matchup - as a collection of resources. The resources you are going to be hoarding are:

1. Meter
2. Health
3. Time
4. Space

These are precious resources, made even more so precious by the nature of this match up. Every bit of your risk/reward will be weighted against the above. Every spacing consideration, every combo you execute, every time you want to challenge a wakeup or go for a cross up - you will consider all of the above. If you don't know what I am talking about or you don't understand these 4 things - that's fine, I will discuss each of these things in depth as we continue, but for now I want these engraved in your mind.

Fighting Mid Stage:

Zoning characters in Injustice love holding back. Dashes are extremely punishable and they will work to exploit this. You must understand that dashing is your reward for blocking, not vice versa. You will walk. However painful it may be. So long as Sinestro is holding back, you will hold forward. What we are doing here is hoarding the most critical of resources in this MU - space. When you walk forward you are claiming all that is behind you for your own. Initially, it may not seem like much, but very quickly your opponent will realize he is walking himself into the corner. When this happens, you force him to commit to something. This is where the MU is won. Space control.

When Sinestro stands his ground you have to consider your spacing. You want to fight this MU just outside of Sinestro's jump arc which coincidentally is approximately his b12 max distance. Your best tool in this matchup is the Escrima Spark. When spaced and timed correctly this can be used to simultaneously duck and disrupt Sinestro's fear blasts. This may also be used as a tool to harass Sinestro's ring charges. By throwing Escrima Sparks you begin to condition your opponent to be more reserved with his horizontal space control efforts. However - Sinestro will beat this option with Boulder outright. He will get damage. He will get trait charge. He will recover space. This is counter productive to Nightwing winning the MU. When you see Sinestro begin to throw boulders, you must recognize that you are conditioning this behavior. This opens the window for Escrima Spark Dash Cancels. Boulders are absurdly unsafe. Boulders have incredible start up. Traitless boulders are a cry for help. An appropriately spaced Escrima Spark Dash Cancel to whiff a boulder - is a full combo and a corner carry. This is what we want. This is how we win.

If I'm making it sound easy, it's because I am. The reality is you will have to make critical reads at this range consistently. Both Escrima Spark and Wingdings - your key harassing tools, are beaten by one move - Boulder. Should you make one bad read on an Escrima spark - you're eating a boulder and giving Sinestro trait. Should you miss your spacing with wingdings - you're eating a fear blast, being sent to full screen AND allowing Sinestro trait. Should Sinestro READ your wingdings - you're eating a boulder, being sent to full screen AND allowing your opponent to build trait. Should you lose anywhere in your neutral game - Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. You're back to square one and that much closer to declaring bankruptcy.

"but Joe! when do I get to press buttons?!"

There may come a point when Sinestro will get sick of your Escrima Spark/SparkCancel horseshit. This is when boulders aren't working, this is when fear blasts aren't working. This is when you aren't giving the match away with wreckless dashing and whiff punished b2s. The best example of this I can think of - B2 loses outright to Air Fear Axe. Our best footsie tool is negated entirely by Air Fear Axe. I have personally witnessed b2 whiffing straight through Sinestro. The problem is that b2 is only a functional normal so long as your opponent stays grounded. b2 loses to jump ins, b2 loses to Air Fear Axe. b2 however, spaced correctly - beats Sinestro's b12. b2 also works wonders for punishing opponents attempting to dash in.

Alternatively, Nightwing can jump into the air with j3, and then delayed cancel the whiff into wingdings. j3 is arguably one of the best air to air normals in the game, unfortunately it's hitbox and Nightwing's jump arc means that Nightwing has to already be on top of his opponent. You will have to make the read, and if you make an incorrect read - you must follow up with MB wingdings to make yourself safe. This however, effectively ends your pressure. It should also be noted that j3 will lose to neutral jump fear axe if you're looking for them to jump forward. The read has to be spot on. Getting consistent reads with j3 will be key to convincing your opponent that his Air Fear Axe is figured out and he'll have to beat you honestly.
How to get in with spark cancels:
To get in with spark cancels you need to condition your opponent to block them. This can be done by ducking a fear blast with escrima spark. Your opponent will be -18. This gives you the opportunity to dash in once for free. Immediately after dashing, escrima spark again. Now the mixup here is whether you are going to let it rip or if you are going to dash in b2. The mixup really isn't that special - if your opponent isn't afraid of the ground spark he can b12 punish your dash - but that's the mixup. For this reason, occasionally I will dash in their face and let an Escrima spark rip. I communicate to my opponent that I'm not afraid to do it. If he eats that second ground spark - at that range - you're in his face. His other option is to neutral jump axe or jump in on your projectile attack. The risk here is real - but the reward is the opportunity to work your opponent up close.
Fighting your opponent cornered:
Before we get started in how to fight your cornered opponent, let's talk about what it means to have your opponent cornered. Go to training mode. Push your opponent to the corner. Perform Staff stand 2. Back up until you are doing staff stand 2 at maximum reach distance. This is the default range for Nightwing players across the board. If you are having difficulty reading your opponent. If you feel even the slightest bit concerned about your ability to contain your opponent. This is where you will stand. Going forward into fighting your cornered opponent - I will not cover the numerous mixups, setups, cross ups or any other horseshit shenanigans - my objective is simple. Containment.

You have finally got your opponent cornered. Here is where you want your opponent. The single most important aspect of the match is containing your opponent to that corner. All of Nightwing's best mixups, all of Nightwing's high damage combos, all of Nightwing's effectiveness - relies on your ability to contain your opponent in that corner. Unless you got some great reads early on - you will be depending on this corner containment to win a favorable life lead precluding your opponent's clash.

"But Joe! I can't d1 from here! This is insane!" mashing d1 against your opponent isn't going to win you a game. j2 1f1 ground pound isn't going to win you a game. Remember, we're not talking about how to beat xXxYOLOSWAGMLG420xXx in some meaningless online ranked match. All of your mixups are failing you. This guy can't be opened up on defense. So how do you win?

By keeping your opponent contained, he can no longer whiff punish you. You are whiff punishing him. By keeping your opponent contained he no longer has the freedom of back dashing out of pressure. You limit his options so intensely that every decision becomes an unfavorable decision. Dashing forward? Eat a staff standing 1. Neutral jumping? Eat a staff standing 2. Whiffing a normal? Staff standing 1. Trying to jump out? Air to air j2. All of these strikes lead to full corner combo. You don't need to have incredible reactions because the staff does all the work. The spacing I described allows for a degree of forgiveness. Maybe you didn't expect him to attempt jumping over you three fucking times in a row? Well, you had the space to see it coming before you had to do something about it.

Another reason why we stand at maximum standing 2 range. Unless you are going for a MB F3 on your opponent's wakeup - back off a little. You do not want to give up the corner because you got hit with some stupid brain dead wakeup that in hindsight you should have seen coming. And the last thing you need is for your opponent to wake up with throw. Should your opponent wake up with back throw - you now own the least amount of space - your most desired resource.

Also, if you are standing directly on top of your opponent and they wake up with a jump forward - they've just got away with murder and the pressure is off.
Fighting the Clock. A brief overview of Risk vs. Reward and Fighting Traited Sinestro
In case you hadn't noticed a trend. Much of the discussion above pertained heavily to risk vs. reward. And so will the discussion revolving around fighting traited Sinestro.

A traited up Sinestro changes the entire match up in so far that the risk vs. reward is heavily in his favor in so many indescribable ways.

So instead of going down every possible situation let's do some specific theory fighting.

You've fought the match up correctly. You have the life lead up by 40%. Sinestro is at 30% health no longer has clash and he's just traited up completely. He has 3 bars of trait, 4 bars of meter and he's full screen. There is 35 seconds left on the clock.

In this situation. I would just walk forward. No dashing. I will eat all the chip. At this rate I am trying to exhaust his resources. He will burn his meter as I approach. He might even try to catch me walking forward with his trait - burning one of those as well. Once I get to Sinestro's jump arc aka his b12 range - I am not going to commit to anything outside of my favored risk/reward. He might go for frame traps or unblockable setups. I want him burning that trait. The more mixups and frame traps he puts me in - the more I have him burning that trait off hoping I take a swing. I will get close enough for him to jump in and start neutral jumping with MB wingdings. I will not do Escrima Spark cancels because I do not want to eat MB fear blast trait combos. If I get AA'd with a fear blast - I'm back at full screen at the cost of 9% health. Low risk.

Sinestro's strings aren't difficult to block. They're just awkward. Start blocking in the standing position, - then block low. This works for all of his strings. None of them are really mixups. They're just awkward and counterintuitive to block.

I will let him get away with murder. If he goes for a grab. I will try to late tech, otherwise I will eat the grab as well. I will take the 10%. I would rather take the 10% and extend the match further, than eat a 25-30% combo and be forced into a situation where either I will 1. wager with less meter than my opponent or 2. be put in another 50/50 situation. Remember what we discussed earlier about putting our opponent in an uncomfortable situation? About how we limit our opponent's options? These are your options if you get throw whiff punished here. And they're not good.

"Why Joe? Why are you letting him get away with all this shit?" Because so long as I have the life lead - I am going to win by default. If I play it patiently enough, the timer will do all the work for me. Eventually he is going to burn through his resources, he is going to make a critical mistake. He HAS to do something wild to make something happen before the timer runs out - otherwise he will lose. At this point I don't have to do anything. I can even start jumping back with wing dings once he gets close.

Does this mean every time Sinestro has trait I am going to let him walk all over me? No. Ask Cowboy how much I give a fuck about his trait if an interactable OTG gives it to him in the first 15 seconds. I go in. I disrespect it. I'll burn all the resources I have to get him off of it.

I'm cutting this short. I hope this is helpful. I'm very willing to discuss NW's bad MUs. I have ground out his bad MUs obsessively and have a considerable amount of experience with Cyborg, Black Adam, and Hawkgirl. Unfortunately I haven't played Injustice in nearly a month so my knowledge won't be relevant for much longer. Jago is a considerably better character than Nightwing. I'm enjoying having anti airs and walkspeed and shit.
I want to hear about that cyborg. Is it pretty much the same as sinestro?
 

NightwingDayZero

Truth, justice and the American way.
I want to hear about that cyborg. Is it pretty much the same as sinestro?
Similar in the risk/reward spectrum yes -unfortunately, the tools that Cyborg has - forces Nightwing to play far more aggressive. I'll explain more tomorrow, I just got back from SoCal where I spent the last 5 days grinding and studying KI, and the last 4 nights figuring out that a Mustang is not a good car to be sleeping in. In short, I'm wrecked - I'll be glad to elaborate later, I just want you to know I've acknowledged your request.
 
Can anyone gives me tips on the batman matchup? The Do's and the don'ts, dealing with zoning, his trait, what to do in the corner, and midscreen, how do I condition batman to fear the dick! Lol
 

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
Can anyone gives me tips on the batman matchup? The Do's and the don'ts, dealing with zoning, his trait, what to do in the corner, and midscreen, how do I condition batman to fear the dick! Lol
I play the Batman matchup all the time in my local scene. Not saying this is how you 'should' fight him because I know multiple NW players who fight him differently. This is just me fighting bats.

Lets start off with What to be afraid of/ look out for. Bats trait, air batarang, cape parry, MB batarangs, scatterboms that are oh so pretty lol.
At the start of the match Batmans instant air scatterboms Will stop all of NW options, best thing to do is walk back and dont challenge it. If bats reads thet you jump at the start for wing dings he can reaction air batarang, His B2 at the start will stop your b2. so the start of the match is in his favor. Air bats will cancel out your wing ding game if spaced improperly so keep in mind not to go crazy like I do lol. Bats trait will aniti air your wing dings, stop a majority of your frame traps, force you to take intractable damage and will induce alot of salt. Cape parry, Like all parry characters it is the Bane to Nightwings existence. any patterned movements, frame traps or bat wake ups will be parried. However not all batmans use the parry I would only look out for it once they start using it, after they do just play your poke footsies and you can and most likely will end up making him whiff parry. up next we got batterangs! batarangs are are easy to deal with in escrima, you can jump wingding or ground spark to trade and keep the zoning game nuteral, however in staff if bats has meter YOU ARE FUCKED lol staff is too slow to deal with bats full screen or try the zone game. hmm I think thats all oh yea U3 cross ups can be cape parried so be careful.


I am going to write more just give me a moment, im at work lol

enjoy this video of me playing our MI prodigy. This is old and we play each other often so be aware of how the match control and momentum will change the favor
next Ill break down fighting in escrima, then staff. the rest is up to you. Like I said in the begining Im going to point out how I play him as an example, you do what makes you comfy I just wana give a general basis of the MU. The vid shows alot of do's and donts and as you will see I do get punished for going brain dead

 

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
@FCP/EMP SCAR Ecrima

As I covered before at the start Batman needs to be respected. Bats b113 is thrown out and we all know its interruptable, however Nw d1 in escrima is not the fastest. I find myself getting hit trying to interrupt or trading( This gets him off you but you take dmg :( ). Batmans Wake up game is pretty bad especially against nightwing. U3 jumps over his wake up slide( if they are ballsy enough to use it) but can be countered with Wake up parry. Midscreen we all know batman loves to jump in, I find myself getting hit trying to D2 him so I just dash Fwrd when he dose jump in 2. Your dash is good so can easilly stop his jump in shagginess with that. Batman players love to end strings with a jump in. If you see a patterned string end in jump ins you can dash fwrd or be risky and do jump back 1,2, or 3 Wingding ( i recomend 3 or 1) uhhhmm. Wing dings, You can throw them but be aware of your zone pattern and spacing. Bats can easily anti air you and it will hurt. If throwing wing dings Keep them as low as possible.

Pressure:

The NW classic is run up, D1 or D12, into f213. If confirmed you get a nice 35- 40% depending on if you want damg or a reset, its all up to your playstyle. this frame trap works really good in the match up do to Batmans Teeny tiny Reptile arms. If blocked you can go into spark cancels to keeup up the Mind games or cancel into staff and staff spin for typical NW chip damage into grabs and staff stuff.
B2 is a great punisher and will make batman slow his row lol, same rules for b2, spark cancel, flip kick or staff spin. Keep in mind that B2 staff cancels are punishable but its hard so you will get away with it.
Midscreen is pretty much the same as any match up just dont get caught in the air. If bats has trait I like to get in his face, do a safe string and back dash or end it in MB ground spark. the back dash usually makes them release bat trait and you can block. If batman releases trait while you MB ground spark 7/10 they fly over you and miss, the Ground spark also causes him to trade if released. A few tricks I abuse in this match up that I see NO ONE else do in escrima. If batman goes for F3 or B3 cross ups YOU CAN DASH FWRD AND YOU GO THROGH HIM :D punish with that B2 Son! lol if he MB it you still dash through him and he wasted a bar. Do not fear the F3 or B3 you just have to time it correct. in escrima You can back dash alot of his strings even after he throws MB bats.

Corner Escrima:
Im happy to say in the Corner The World is yours. The only thing you have to fear is cape parry and intractables. ending combos with 113 and then doing U3 will reverse his wake ups everytime and you get full punish for it. Im sure you know of the flip kick and other cross ups so Im not going to go into detail on that. Just Bait the cape parry and punish. Play Corner game just like you normally would.

That takes care of 'my' escrima breakdown If I missed anything let me know and correct me. Again this is just me playing the MU and using this as an example you can lay however you want.

NEXT UP STAFF lol gimmie a min for that