New Yomi Tier List after The Big Patch 9/1+

[Enexemander]

I can think over 5 quan chi's that are top 16 player lol, reo and ketchup being two of them. I think how good a character is directly correlates with how many people use them, but thats my opinion. But quan chi is a bad example tho forreal

I think you're on the right track, but you're missing a big part of the picture-

There's how good a character is when played at the highest level and

There's how good a character is when played at your personal level.

D'Vorah has a high skill floor. This means that in order to even really *start* playing D'Vorah the way she's meant to be played, you have to have all her run cancels down (on hit and on block). That's not an easy thing to do, and NRS keeps dicking around with the timing and the advantage randomly to make it even more frustrating. A new player trying out Swarm Queen D'Vorah is not going to feel how powerful she is, because they haven't even reached the skill floor to really begin playing her.

She's a difficult character to play well at a high level, but once you can, then she's really powerful. Compare that with Shinnok. He's also really powerful, but he's also really easy to pick up and play well mechanically.

That's really only one factor in the decision in who to main, though. MK has been around for a LONG time. Chances are if you're serious about it then you've already got a great idea of who your main is from previous games, and D'Vorah is new. So of the people that are already good at the game and could put the time in to pick her up, why would they if they weren't feeling the character?

And some dudes just hate bugs.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

Heres what I gotta say about that Mr.YOMI: Cage has a good D4. BUT ON BLOCK LIU KANG CAN F44 RIGHT AFTER YOU DO THE MOVE. SO IF I DO THIS AND IT'S BLOCKED IM HANDING A TURN TO ATTACK OVER TO MY OPPONENT. OTHER CHARACTERS CAN DO THAT TO CAGE TO. His F3 is great. But awful if it whiffs. And it leads to a frame trap on block where I will either EAT ARMOR. DO A GRAB WHOOPTY FUCKIN DOO. D4 (IF BLOCKED IM HANDING THE TURN TO ATTACK TO MY OPPONENT.) DO AN OVERHEAD WHICH WILL GET BLOCKED. GO FOR A 11 AND GET POKED OUT OF IF MY OPPONENT IS SMART. OR 113 AND RISK GETTING FUZZY BLOCKED. OR 113 EX FORCE BALL WHICH CAN BE DESTROYED BY CASSIES FLIP KICK AND REPTILES DASH AND SEVERAL OTHER FAST MOVES. ANYONE WITH AN 8FRAME POKE CAN GET OUT OF THE EX FORCE BALL TRAP. SO MY OPTIONS SUCK. AND ALL FOR 23% OR 33% Good day. My opinion

PREACH!!!

 

[michaelangelo]

Oh lol my mistake. I don't know much about the European side, I mean no disrespect at all. But, what about Tanya? The only tournament ones right now that I can think of are MIT, myself, and STB Dragon. Only 3 Tanyas, tho she's still top tier :b

But you are entitled to your opinion all I'm saying is that while that there is a correlation sometimes, it's not always the case, with your D'Vorah example being a good one showcasing that haha

You like acting like a little thot on here don't you?

 

[MrSunshine]

Are you(yomi) placing shinnok that high because of the wound vs. king and the tourney you guys held? Because from what i saw a lot of shinnoks were getting away with stuff. He is A+

 

[kivatt]

This thread is hilarious

 

[michaelangelo]

Can you tell me your opinion on d'vorah and why more people dont use her if shes such a high teir? It's perplexing to me, and i do agree that shes good but i dont understand why shes not played more by top players?

I think more people should use her. I guess people want to use cooler looking characters.

 

[Mortal Komhat]

Care to elaborate? I feel there's no where near enough talk of the good Goro can do on TYM. We need to hear more from yourself, @Espio and @Metzos so we can begin to believe!

If you want to find out, you should pick him up yourself. Don't get me wrong, I entirely agree with the assessment that Goro is bottom 1, but he's a really fun character to play in all three of his variations so I definitely encourage any who want to pick him up as a side character for fun, to do so.

However, the game being what it is, Goro imo would need to be completely redesigned for him to be competitive unless they gave him some broke, Bane-like shit.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

If you want to find out, you should pick him up yourself. Don't get me wrong, I entirely agree with the assessment that Goro is bottom 1, but he's a really fun character to play in all three of his variations so I definitely encourage any who want to pick him up as a side character for fun, to do so.

However, the game being what it is, Goro imo would need to be completely redesigned for him to be competitive unless they gave him some broke, Bane-like shit.

I played him back at launch but right now just really enjoying other characters. I love to hear people's opinions of matchups though, so even if I were to pick him up myself, I'm sure these guys could give a much better assessment that the rest of the people in this thread could benefit from hearing. I'll get back to Goro one day, just not right now.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Raiden bottom 10? I can get behind this

 

[Espio]

Care to elaborate? I feel there's no where near enough talk of the good Goro can do on TYM. We need to hear more from yourself, @Espio and @Metzos so we can begin to believe!

My opinion in the end doesn't really matter cause I won't change any minds and if you don't follow a certain train of thought you're an upplayer or uninformed lol. Although I will say there is some inconsistency in the logic department. For example, REO's recent Jason mu chart has Goro beating Jason 6-4.....yet in this tier list he's listed as no winning match ups so clearly there's some type of disconnect going on.

Post buffs Goro is definitely at least on par with Mileena, Kenshi and Ferra/Torr and he definitely has some winning match ups (some of which he had before getting buffed despite the popularized narrative of losing to everyone). I have a lot of thoughts on Goro, but honestly, he's better than Jason, Mileena and Kenshi in my opinion and probably beats all three of them for different reasons.

The patch addressed most of the community's UNIVERSAL gripes with Goro. Better anti-air, improved mobility, less meter wasted, improved back 1,2, up 2 etc. Short of of giving him the Bane treatment, the patch was good to him.

His frame data and pokes have always been good and command grab is a great punishment special. If you want my more in depth thoughts on Goro, I made a guide. I feel like I wrote too much as is here lol. I only use Tigrar so this is my perspective as a Tigrar Goro mainer.

 

[Kingshootahz]

Jax is D tier,he needs buffs,lots of buffs before he's even remotely viable.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

My opinion in the end doesn't really matter cause I won't change any minds and if you don't follow a certain train of thought you're an upplayer or uninformed lol. Although I will say there is some inconsistency in the logic department. For example, REO's recent Jason mu chart has Goro beating Jason 6-4.....yet in this tier list he's listed as no winning match ups so clearly there's some type of disconnect going on.

Post buffs Goro is definitely at least on par with Mileena, Kenshi and Ferra/Torr and he definitely has some winning match ups (some of which he had before getting buffed despite the popularized narrative of losing to everyone). I have a lot of thoughts on Goro, but honestly, he's better than Jason, Mileena and Kenshi in my opinion and probably beats all three of them for different reasons.

The patch addressed most of the community's UNIVERSAL gripes with Goro. Better anti-air, improved mobility, less meter wasted, improved back 1,2, up 2 etc. Short of of giving him the Bane treatment, the patch was good to him.

His frame data and pokes have always been good and command grab is a great punishment special. If you want my more in depth thoughts on Goro, I made a guide. I feel like I wrote too much as is here lol. I only use Tigrar so this is my perspective as a Tigrar Goro mainer.

It's a start! Which characters do you think he has clear winning matchups against/why?

 

[Mortal Komhat]

My opinion in the end doesn't really matter cause I won't change any minds and if you don't follow a certain train of thought you're an upplayer or uninformed lol. Although I will say there is some inconsistency in the logic department. For example, REO's recent Jason mu chart has Goro beating Jason 6-4.....yet in this tier list he's listed as no winning match ups so clearly there's some type of disconnect going on.

Post buffs Goro is definitely at least on par with Mileena, Kenshi and Ferra/Torr and he definitely has some winning match ups (some of which he had before getting buffed despite the popularized narrative of losing to everyone). I have a lot of thoughts on Goro, but honestly, he's better than Jason, Mileena and Kenshi in my opinion and probably beats all three of them for different reasons.

The patch addressed most of the community's UNIVERSAL gripes with Goro. Better anti-air, improved mobility, less meter wasted, improved back 1,2, up 2 etc. Short of of giving him the Bane treatment, the patch was good to him.

His frame data and pokes have always been good and command grab is a great punishment special. If you want my more in depth thoughts on Goro, I made a guide. I feel like I wrote too much as is here lol. I only use Tigrar so this is my perspective as a Tigrar Goro mainer.

I wanted to mention that you'd speak mostly for Tigrar and Metzos for Kuatan but then... didn't.

Nobody has anything of note to say on DF. I like the variation more than the other two personally, but can't justify playing it over the other two.

 

[DarkFire*]

You like acting like a little thot on here don't you?

Lmfaooo of course

Spoiler

... except that it seems you forgot everyone is a thot in this world except for me xD but there's no shame in that tho cause it can't be helped ^_^

Are you(yomi) placing shinnok that high because of the wound vs. king and the tourney you guys held? Because from what i saw a lot of shinnoks were getting away with stuff. He is A+

Shinnok is still extremely strong. Yes he got nerfed but he's still really good. It's like Tanya, she's been getting ONLY nerfs since she was released, not a single buff was given to her. And she doesn't need it. A character can be given multiple nerfs and still remain top tier Tanya and Shinnok are the best examples of that lol in my personal opinion they have him in the right place at S tier

 

[GGA N1k0lasss]

Why everyone sleeps on Tremor?
Also Ermac is bottom 10 in my opinion

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Anyway who knows more about this game as a team than Yomi? Not saying their perfect but way more knowledge than most of us on here that's for sure.

even though i have Mad respect for YOMI players... i dont feel one group of players has all the answers or all the knowledge of a game that has not been out that long or even close to being patched all the way... characters full potential is still left undiscovered.

even though i like seeing a tier list from them, i dislike the notion of a closed community tier list, this takes away the opinion as a whole, imo it is a statement that the few that helped post it, are stating that they know every style of every Variation of every character, undiscovered tech, which we see new tech every day, all matchups of all styles, which everyone plays different.

MAd props to the YOMI team.
but EVO ESL and other known tournements are not the only players in the world. there are millions that dont make it to these events, that very well may be better than all. who knows?

and just cuz someone plays a game very well doesnt mean they know every character in the game as well as they know their top 5 characters.

i will always be open to posts on any forum from many people. to me they dont have to have a known clan tag in front of their name to have value. that still remains to be seen.

i would have rather they made some sort of distinction on tier placements(mu#'s)!
explanations for each placement.
Variations instead of just a character as whole.

 

[Samsara]

Jax is D tier,he needs buffs,lots of buffs before he's even remotely viable.

FTFY

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Shinnok is top 3? Interesting, 3 was the number of times that king punished b3 on block. Most people at yomi don't know that f4 sparks is no longer guaranteed. And yet he is top 3 in the game....

Cowboy might actually NOT be downplaying for the first time in his life.

 

[Espio]

It's a start! Which characters do you think he has clear winning matchups against/why?

Pasting this from the Mileena mu thread in the Mileena forums.

I'm not a Mileena player, but I'd like to throw my hat in on Tigrar Fury Goro versus Ravenous and Piercing. I think both are 6-4 Goro's favor for a variety of reasons.

Forward 3 alone is a very oppressive footsie tool for Goro against Mileena as it hits at round start and beats out a great many of her main options. She can low profile with roll, but she's putting her life on the line to merely contest it many times and if she's wrong she's getting launched and likely put into the corner where she straight up dies there.

The difference between Goro and Mileena's plus frames is Goro can take advantage of his without having to do risky things to make you respect them. A lot of times since Goro's down 1 and down 3 are six frames he can just poke her out of many follows up cause she's slow. Ex punch walk crushes ex ball roll in most instances unless the Goro player mistimes it or the Mileena player does something yolo like down 3 ex ball roll on a hard read. When he gets her in the corner,she may not get back out or up till the round ends. 3,down 3 destroys armor with Goro.

Goro is hard to pressure for her on wake up due to her armor breaking strings that work great on many other characters is pretty ineffective against Goro's wake ups because he has two hits of armor on punch walk.

Mileena's zoning is pretty meh, even in piercing so she's not keeping him out for any relevant period of time unless Goro is reckless or hangs himself.

Goro's pokes are better, his footsies are better, he is a vastly safer character and the general damage ratio is pretty close to each other. Goro also destroys her gaps in important strings like forward 4,4 and if she does forward 4, ex ball roll, this also loses to ex punchwalk's tank armor. The only forward 4 cancel he cannot armor is forward 4 regular ball roll, but either way she's taking a big risk of getting launched one way or another if he merely blocks or what have you. If he just blocks forward 4,4, command grab punishes it on block as well.


He probably does slightly better against Ravenous cause she has no low sai, but not enough for piercing to not lose to him as well. Piercing's low fireball recovery on whiff makes telestomp a really good option to punish and makes her even more uncomfortable about zoning.


It's a very fun, footsie based match up, but I feel due to lots of experience, lab time and analysis that he beats those two variations. Mileena can definitely hold her own against Goro, but if the Goro player is playing fundamentally solid he shouldn't struggle against either of these variations.

As for Ethereal, I'm not super well versed in the match up, but I'm skeptical it's any better than 5-5. Being able to fade out of pressure definitely matters and is a notable match up component, but weaker projectile game and what not makes me doubtful that having a safer option to get out of pressure flips a winning match up to the reverse side.

Lackey Ferra/Torr: Tigrar Fury zones him out and at worst goes even with him in the footsie game. His lack of a full screen presence is a problem for this match up. Not much else I have to add at the moment, but this match up seems pretty straight forward.


Very probable ones:

Balanced Kenshi- zoning is weak with lots of whiff recovery. Goro crushes him on knockdown and pressures him really well too. Low fireballs can be used to throw off reflects and can launch with meter.

Relentless Jason- His long ranged string is punishable by command grab, better pokes, can't keep Goro out, safer etc.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

Goro isnt garbage, hes actually pretty good since the buffs especially Kuatan (which is really the only one Im most familiar with, lunge being a mid is great btw). His biggest struggle is he depends way too much on meter IMO, his meter gives him an awesome armored launcher, a great anti air, an escape from the corner, a projectile counter, 12% guaranteed extra damage after a lot of combos. Those are all great, but thats only if he has the meter to do it. Otherwise his strings are slow, his movement is slow, hes big and hes clunky and (kuatan at least) has very few mix ups, which can make him very predictable at times, theres only so many d4 punchwalks you can do before your opponent catches on.

 

[Skeezer12]

These guys make the worst " Tier List " Ever Smh

 

[Rip Torn]

• Tanya still seems overrated.
• I agree with Cage. I'm surprised people still can't see how good he is...
• I think Jax and Erron are a bit underrated.

Overall it's a solid tier list.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Reading this still gets me emo that Jason was nerfed and Quan Chi was buffed during that big patch. They did hotfix a buff to Jason later, which means they are starting to get back on track. But my #1 major problem was that they nerfed Jason's fun

 

[HoneyBee]

I think you're on the right track, but you're missing a big part of the picture-

There's how good a character is when played at the highest level and

There's how good a character is when played at your personal level.

D'Vorah has a high skill floor. This means that in order to even really *start* playing D'Vorah the way she's meant to be played, you have to have all her run cancels down (on hit and on block). That's not an easy thing to do, and NRS keeps dicking around with the timing and the advantage randomly to make it even more frustrating. A new player trying out Swarm Queen D'Vorah is not going to feel how powerful she is, because they haven't even reached the skill floor to really begin playing her.

She's a difficult character to play well at a high level, but once you can, then she's really powerful. Compare that with Shinnok. He's also really powerful, but he's also really easy to pick up and play well mechanically.

That's really only one factor in the decision in who to main, though. MK has been around for a LONG time. Chances are if you're serious about it then you've already got a great idea of who your main is from previous games, and D'Vorah is new. So of the people that are already good at the game and could put the time in to pick her up, why would they if they weren't feeling the character?

And some dudes just hate bugs.

I agree.

In my opinion, Swarm Queen D'Vorah is one of, if not, the hardest character to play execution wise in MKX. And while she's a great character, there's characters that are simply better than her that also require less effort to use (BS Shinnok for example). I don't see SQ D'Vorah as the type of character someone can secondary and just pull out as a counter pick in tournament. I can't think of a single time someone used her as a character switch at a major and won. Her cancels have different buffer windows on block/hit and they also change based on the string you use. With how momentum based this game is, one fucked up cancel can easily be ggs.

The players capable of playing her at a high level in tournament either aren't interested in her design wise or they would rather use a better character that requires less effort to use. The majority of players that do play her in tournament just aren't at the level required to compete with the likes of top players like YOMI, etc, etc, yet.

@Dinosaur

 

[Dinosaur]

I agree.

In my opinion, Swarm Queen D'Vorah is one of, if not, the hardest character to play execution wise in MKX. And while she's a great character, there's characters that are simply better than her that also require less effort to use (BS Shinnok for example). I don't see SQ D'Vorah as the type of character someone can secondary and just pull out as a counter pick in tournament. I can't think of a single time someone used her as a character switch at a major and won. Her cancels have different buffer windows on block/hit and they also change based on the string you use. With how momentum based this game is, one fucked up cancel can easily be ggs.

The players capable of playing her at a high level in tournament either aren't interested in her design wise or they would rather use a better character that requires less effort to use. The majority of players that do play her in tournament just aren't at the level required to compete with the likes of top players like YOMI, etc, etc, yet.

@Dinosaur

Would you say then shes a high risk/ high reward character or a high risk/medium reward? And if thats the case, do you agree with the placing yomi gave her. Since other characters can work less and do easier tech/cancels but get more out of it?