New Yomi Tier List after The Big Patch 9/1+

[Dizzy]

People saying the OS nerf hit Raiden thr most clearly haven't played Ermac.

Straight outa of High-A tier to bottom 10.

There has always been a double standard in regards to option selects. Raiden players often used them in tournament play, so it factored heavily into his tier placement. Meanwhile, other characters had equally powerful OS off overhead or lows (reptile, Ermac, others) that people who mained the characters did not utilize, so people pretended as if they didn't exist and ranked them accordingly.

In that regard, it makes sense that only Raiden's tier placement would be greatly affected compared to other characters, even if in reality OS removal should have affected a lot of characters.

One of the examples of how tournament performance or individual player performance influences tier lists often, even though it should not.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

But when you look at the same people not just YOMI consistently place top 8 at majors and people consistently win their locals must prove in this you win with skill over guesswork for the most part

that statement will always be true...skill can overcome but thats not the point. Tier placement takes skill out of the equation and focuses on two robots. That said, I stand by my statement.

 

[Robotic]

The question is...why is Jax so goddamn low at this point?

Why do u think I call him bedsheets?

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

Goro is bad but I don't think he's "deserves his own tier bad" anymore. He's probably on par with F/T, Kenshi, Mileena, and Jason. He just has some really stupid match ups like Tanya, Scorpion and Kung Lao. He does solid against some higher tiers like D'vorah and Jax.


Plus he won a major

I play Jason and Goro, and Goro feels way better off haha. I have Jason lower then all of them.

 

[Syzoth]

yeah, i mean her zoning is so easy to get past. They need to make her machine gun shots a mid

trololol?

 

[juicepouch]

i can react to 15 frames everyone else is just bad tbh

 

[SM StarGazer]

Eno dorw: ANATIK¡¡¡¡

 

[Lukeweizer]

I'm guessing Kung Jin is A Tier because of Shaolin? Still hoping for @YOMI SLAYER to do a Shaolin guide so I can see what's so good about the variation.

 

[IrishMantis]

that statement will always be true...skill can overcome but thats not the point. Tier placement takes skill out of the equation and focuses on two robots. That said, I stand by my statement.

Oh okay I get yoU, I gave a response to a question you didn't ask.

Well since I replied I'll have give opinion to your question. Most of the the time a 50/50 would only be a 50/50 in unreactable guesses property wise they are usually different (DMG, Carry, Safety, Range, use of meter or stamina, etc) so if it's a Bo3 its up to your to do 2 things 1. Find the opponents patterns and 2 most importantly use logical and sharp probability analysing to work which would work more times in your advantage to block.
Let's say player x has 30% life and 50/50 where his low does 20% dmg with no meter his OH does 50%1 bar both are punishable and you both only have bar and let's say you have 1 game already in the bag, he gets you in his 50/50 position so he has you, he needs to win this meaning good chance he try the big dmg and if he tries the low he will have to do the low 3 times to win and since it's only doing 20% dmg he will have to rush in to go for the mix up again which he has to respect your bar of meter that can catch him with a wake up and kill at least twice since he needs to connect it 3 times.if he goes for overhead you only have 10% life left meaning he can play a little be more reserved as in zone you or chip plus his 50/50 option.
This obviously varies depending on player and MUs

I know that was a very vague example but is just to show if the char that has a 50/50 doesn't necessarily mean it's a 50/50 in the equal sense.
As a coin flip would you get a point or win, no special properties just a sime point, when in this there multiple variations that takes place in a 50:50

A lot of stuff is similar to Poker and even Chess

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Hmm, so based on this logic then Mileena must be like top 12 cuz of saltface, tremor like top 3 cuz of DJT, Quan just inside top 10 cuz no quan has one a major, and etc. I think everyone gets what I am saying with this, tourny results do not determine a characters viability lol.

I just saw the legend of the great djt kenshi get rekt 20-5 by slayer Lao and by sun god

He's 6th from the bottom

I await djt major debut w him using him 100% in tourney at a stacked major

He's smarter than to use kenshi at a major and u know it and all U say privately but you thump your chest on the forums about his viability

 

[SM StarGazer]

Oh my what is happening..Pig vs MiT ft10..5..3...please Pig-sama? MiT-san?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@YOMI MITYEAP Curious, why aren't Reptile & Jax considered A+ Tier?

Jax I feel is right outside A+ or may very well be in there. He is all around a ridiculous character (unreactable 50/50 mixups, great damage, great pressure and frame traps, etc.). So he definitely could be there. As far as reptile goes, the patch I feel definitely moved him up and he could be A tier but YOMI as a group feel he hasn't jumped that drastically after the patch. We could be wrong tho of course.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Everyone forgets @EGP Wonder_Chef

Just edited my post

 

[IrishMantis]

Jax I feel is right outside A+ or may very well be in there. He is all around a ridiculous character (unreactable 50/50 mixups, great damage, great pressure and frame traps, etc.). So he definitely could be there. As far as reptile goes, the patch I feel definitely moved him up and he could be A tier but YOMI as a group feel he hasn't jumped that drastically after the patch. We could be wrong tho of course.

Would love to hear a non collective tier list from you guys but since the game is at such a young age I guess a collective tier list on chars in whole is the closest to an accurate tier list we get for now.

 

[IrishMantis]

Jax I feel is right outside A+ or may very well be in there. He is all around a ridiculous character (unreactable 50/50 mixups, great damage, great pressure and frame traps, etc.). So he definitely could be there. As far as reptile goes, the patch I feel definitely moved him up and he could be A tier but YOMI as a group feel he hasn't jumped that drastically after the patch. We could be wrong tho of course.

Would love to hear a non collective tier list from you guys but since the game is at such a young age I guess a collective tier list on chars in whole is the closest to an accurate tier list we get for now.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

I updated the tier list in image form with fun colors for the whole family.

I find the list to be fine. Thanks, Team Yomi, for the work you put in to make it.

i've been waiting for someone to do it since release of the game. and i just realized how much i miss image-ed tier list, but one question, characters are not exactly ordered as given in michaelangelos first post, so why?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I just saw the legend of the great djt kenshi get rekt 20-5 by slayer Lao and by sun god

He's 6th from the bottom

I await djt major debut w him using him 100% in tourney at a stacked major

He's smarter than to use kenshi at a major and u know it and all U say privately but you thump your chest on the forums about his viability

Umm are u using casuals go determine how good a character is/ someone is with character? Because if so, then u are doing it wrong. U do realize lao is one of Slayer's mains and kenshi is like DJT's 10th character but I won't even pull that card. I will just say that if he plays against other top players at a major (doesn't have to be tourny, could be ft10 sets) then I think he will fare well.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Hmm, so based on this logic then Mileena must be like top 12 cuz of saltface, tremor like top 3 cuz of DJT, Quan just inside top 10 cuz no quan has won a major in a long time, and etc. I think everyone gets what I am saying with this, tourny results do not determine a characters viability lol.

Tanya confirmed mid tier because she hasn't won anything. Even when she was super good.

#BuffPyro

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Would love to hear a non collective tier list from you guys but since the game is at such a young age I guess a collective tier list on chars in whole is the closest to an accurate tier list we get for now.

Yeah, later in the game's life we may do individual list but I think we will stick with group list for now.

 

[Wetdoba]

@michaelangelo who is the Ferra Torr player over there? i think when considering their sum of all three variations they could be a bump up now but curious as the who was playing them and what they were doing or not doing with them to determine their placement

 

[rafaw]

you act like you can't poke out of his pressure. When I say punish according, punish what is punishable.

Depending on the pressure we use, it cant be poked out.

f2 is 15+ frames startup while most pokes are 6-10 you can poke out after 11 or 1 into f2 if you make the call. Not to mention that unless you are frame perfect run cancelling and also point blank range against an appropriate height character for f2 to hit on the first frame, you can poke it after some cancels. Even at +11 if you went for f2 there is a 5-6 frame gap with PERFECT execution and spacing.

I agree in the 11, 1 f2 and even F24skrc into f2, but f24skrc into f3 cant be poked, thats the thing, if your geting poked out change your pressure and you get a free combo when they try to press butons!

 

[Enexemander]

Oh my what is happening..Pig vs MiT ft10..5..3...please Pig-sama? MiT-san?

I'm not sure how that would settle anything. If Pig loses with Kenshi, then his argument is proven right. If Pig wins with Kenshi, it only proves that Pig played better, not that the character is above B tier. The second one is also weird because Pig winning the fight is close to a losing condition for his argument, so he'd have no incentive.

So I'm trying to think of how this could actually be proven.

Scenario (just for fun)

Yomi Tournament
If Pig were to pick up a new character, say Takeda, and go to Yomi- He could prove that Kenshi is low tier by playing only Takeda, while EVERYONE ELSE has to play Kenshi.
If Pig beats the entire Yomi roster when they use Kenshi while he uses someone that isn't even his main, that would be a huge blow up. (And entertaining as Hell. I'd love to see everyone try to play Kenshi for a local tourney while the challenger chose someone else).

For this to be possible, Pig would have to learn a new character though, so it's kind of on him to put on the show.

What do you guys think? It would be a very hype match, and I'm sure the stream would blow up!

@Pig Of The Hut @YOMI MITYEAP @YOMI Reno_Racks @YOMI MITYEAP

 

[michaelangelo]

@michaelangelo who is the Ferra Torr player over there? i think when considering their sum of all three variations they could be a bump up now but curious as the who was playing them and what they were doing or not doing with them to determine their placement

DJT plays Torr

 

[KidVanDal]

Legit question incoming.

If your character has a 50/50 that at ANY point in the match is able to use it, don't you have a 50/50 chance of winning that round then and there. Perhaps the argument is, "well it doesn't kill so you have to do that too many times and you can't always get 50/50 started."

If that is true then the point remains...if your character has a 50/50, it automatically limits how bad a matchup is because if you have good spacing AND get a chance to swing, you have a 50/50 chance of opening them up and possibly killing.

Am I a complete retard for thinking this? Again this is a legit question/talking point.

Exactly. I believe that NRS put this many 50/50s in the game as a way of balancing it. High risk high reward 50s and low risk low reward 50s as well as a mixture of range, damage, resources, etc.

Essentially, this game comes down to getting the most opportunities to make your opponent guess. These are the high tier. Also these tend to have a safer 50/50.

But other characters like Kotal only need 1-2 turns and they can win. You can call it low tier but it's really just a different form of balance making him super viable but has to wait for that moment and guess right more often.

This, like it or not, is how NRS balanced MKX and it is balanced. Just not the way I would have preferred it. Oh well. Carry on

These are valid points, and if we don't look at were to place 50/50 chars in a tier list and instead look at balancing it's even more intriguing.

I personally like it when there's a limit to how many 50/50's you can throw out in a row. It can be based on stamina or meter or something of the sort.
Like the semi 50/50 green lantern had in igau. He could only do it when trait was active and only got two turns, after that he had to wait until trait came back.

If you want to regulate 50/50's and don't wan't them to be guaranteed, that's one way of balancing it.
Or to make it like shinnok's, one safe option (which most will players go for) and one unsafe.

That (atleast to me) feels more honest.


TYM may now proceed to blow me up as they please...



Edited for more clarity.

 

[Wetdoba]

DJT plays Torr

Huh I never knew, by Torr do you mean specifically Lackey? Does he play it on stream ever Ive never seen it