Match-up Discussion New Sonya on the rise: Mu chart/ discussion

[xSMoKEx]

This chart makes me happy Thank you based MITDJT lmao.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

As far as zoning goes, all damage she takes gives her meter and the ability to comeback like quan chi. NEVER COUNT OUT SKARLET (unless she is meterless)
sonya's strings are able to be interrupted fairly easily. Ive been working on this with pig and I can armor, jump or poke. Her armor negates all of Sonya's armor. My goal as Skarlet is to let sonya get in, and counter her armor with mine. If you bait my armor...good for you, I might slide or get pressure and another option to do this. I might go for down slash and get comboed, but If I bait yours, good for me...I will win or at least get the life lead back.

This is a simple tactic that evens the playing field against all armor characters except kabal.

Trying to beat Sonyas by attempting to armour her armour is a good way to lose quickly, Sonya never has to armour against Skarlet, and any time that Skarlet has to armour against Sonya she can usually just option select her way out of it.

Skarletts armour isnt THAT good purely because of how slow it is. If it was more like Rain, then you'd have trouble.

So many characters can still attack AND block if theyre at advantage to do another more, and are expecting an armoured move.

 

[AestheticLove]

MITDJT

You have sonya 7-3 against Jade, i think it could be even worse. Sonya can iadk Jade inbetween her 23f2 and b32 strings. Although, Jade can do 23xspecial and will catch sonya trying to jump out, but sonya can ex cartwheel that. Next Sonya can ex carthweel 4f3 and 34. Maybe GamerBlake90 can elaborate more on this and we can play this match sometime soon.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Trying to beat Sonyas by attempting to armour her armour is a good way to lose quickly, Sonya never has to armour against Skarlet, and any time that Skarlet has to armour against Sonya she can usually just option select her way out of it.

Skarletts armour isnt THAT good purely because of how slow it is. If it was more like Rain, then you'd have trouble.

So many characters can still attack AND block if theyre at advantage to do another more, and are expecting an armoured move.

You are just in denial aren't you? How do I lose quickly but armoring her armored cartwheel. You yourself preach how easy it is to interupt her pressure. If skarlet can interrupt her pressure it will be hard for her to get damage other than chip and projectiles and well placed armor. d4 is less effective way to get in vs skarlet because of down dagger...so Sonya will have difficulty getting damage unless she can armor an attack or something.

If I counter ANY characters Armor attacks its a guaranteed free combo for 40% because they will likely not be able to break. How is that a bad idea? I know you think you will never fall for something like that but you have to assume the person on the other end is just as good as you and can make reads equally s well.

God your dense

 

[Evil_Riu48]

guys i already gave my numbers and talked about them as well . . . i will not go back and talk about matchups every time someone post their matchup number

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You are just in denial aren't you? How do I lose quickly but armoring her armored cartwheel. You yourself preach how easy it is to interupt her pressure. If skarlet can interrupt her pressure it will be hard for her to get damage other than chip and projectiles and well placed armor. d4 is less effective way to get in vs skarlet because of down dagger...so Sonya will have difficulty getting damage unless she can armor an attack or something.

If I counter ANY characters Armor attacks its a guaranteed free combo for 40% because they will likely not be able to break. How is that a bad idea? I know you think you will never fall for something like that but you have to assume the person on the other end is just as good as you and can make reads equally s well.

God your dense

Down dagger doesnt make a big enough difference to take away the threat of her d4, if you're gonna do down daggers to avoid the d4, you'll just end up getting AA comboed all day, or JIP blockstringed.

She doesnt need to do damage other than chip or projectiles, cause Sonya wins the projectile trade, and the chip too since she's just quicker. Yeah you can interupt her strings, but Skarlet has slow launching normals which makes it alot harder to actually make anything worth while out of it.

Like I said, armoured cartwheel isnt even that useful unless you're armouring through daggers or something. No Sonya player should ever be thinking to try to beat Skarlets armour with their armour, just throw out a jab or a 11 and block, you can block anything Skarlet does in that time anyway.

 

[BillStickers]

God your dense

Oh, sweet irony.

 

[Espio]

MITDJT

You have sonya 7-3 against Jade, i think it could be even worse. Sonya can iadk Jade inbetween her 23f2 and b32 strings. Although, Jade can do 23xspecial and will catch sonya trying to jump out, but sonya can ex cartwheel that. Next Sonya can ex carthweel 4f3 and 34. Maybe GamerBlake90 can elaborate more on this and we can play this match sometime soon.

3 staff grab is one of Jade's options I think is undeutilized because the cancel advantage is so high that it gives her an additional non-armorable option for blockstrings. Same for 2 staff grab and things like that.

Characters with a lot of armor make string staggering extremely important to keep them guessing and make them waste meter. The good thing is most of Jade's string staggers leave her at -3 to -6 so she's still fairly safe and can't be punished for staggering them.

It's definitely a bad match up for sure, but I'd say 3-7 still.

 

[BillStickers]

3 staff grab is one of Jade's options I think is undeutilized because the cancel advantage is so high that it gives her an additional non-armorable option for blockstrings. Same for 2 staff grab and things like that.

Characters with a lot of armor make string staggering extremely important to keep them guessing and make them waste meter. The good thing is most of Jade's string staggers leave her at -3 to -6 so she's still fairly safe and can't be punished for staggerin them.

It's definitely a bad match up for sure, but I'd say 3-7 still.

maybe this MU is 2-8 if Jade's best bet to win is to try to sneak 8% off of a 15 frame high into special that leaves her at -11...

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Down dagger doesnt make a big enough difference to take away the threat of her d4, if you're gonna do down daggers to avoid the d4, you'll just end up getting AA comboed all day, or JIP blockstringed.

She doesnt need to do damage other than chip or projectiles, cause Sonya wins the projectile trade, and the chip too since she's just quicker. Yeah you can interupt her strings, but Skarlet has slow launching normals which makes it alot harder to actually make anything worth while out of it.

Like I said, armoured cartwheel isnt even that useful unless you're armouring through daggers or something. No Sonya player should ever be thinking to try to beat Skarlets armour with their armour, just throw out a jab or a 11 and block, you can block anything Skarlet does in that time anyway.

she doesnt need to launch you with her strings...114 rd is enough to stagger you and either make you block a string (cause skarlet is in + frames) or armor because that is your only way out of the frame trap. Its a guess on your part and a read on my part...but whoever guesses right gets the advantage...problem is if skralet guesses right she gets 40% resets where if you guess right, you are only escaping pressure.

If your goal is to zone, thats fine, skarlet can avoid zoning dude.

Oh, sweet irony.

uggg. logic escapes you doesnt it?

 

[Espio]

maybe this MU is 2-8 if Jade's best bet to win is to try to sneak 8% off of a 15 frame high into special that leaves her at -11...

It's not her best bet, but she mentioned armor...so I mentioned options that aren't armorable.....I mentioned an option to get around a problem, it's not like that's all you're going to do in the match up....also 3 hits mid on everyone regardless of hitbox size (just clarifying).

2 is a special mid, but high on all neutral ducking opponents.

 

[BillStickers]

uggg. logic escapes you doesnt it?

OK, since you don't get it, I'll just explain to you that you misspelled "you're" while calling someone stupid.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

OK, since you don't get it, I'll just explain to you that you misspelled "your" while calling someone stupid.

lol I guess I did...but Im not calling him stupid. He is dense because he cant look at this MU objectively. He, like many others who dont play skarlet, doesnt understand her options.

I thought you were calling me dense because of our disagreements in the past....my b

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

lol I guess I did...but Im not calling him stupid. He is dense because he cant look at this MU objectively. He, like many others who dont play skarlet, doesnt understand her options.

I thought you were calling me dense because of our disagreements in the past....my b

Not sure if SRS, you know where a vast majority the original game plan of Skarlet came from?

 

[Justice]

Trying to beat Sonyas by attempting to armour her armour is a good way to lose quickly, Sonya never has to armour against Skarlet, and any time that Skarlet has to armour against Sonya she can usually just option select her way out of it.

Skarletts armour isnt THAT good purely because of how slow it is. If it was more like Rain, then you'd have trouble.

So many characters can still attack AND block if theyre at advantage to do another more, and are expecting an armoured move.

I don't know about Skarlet, but I did just find out the hard way that Smoke's Telepunch beats out Kartwheel clean. True or not, I like where that post is going since it shows that at least SOMEONE out there isn't content to just sit back and call Sonya "braindead" or "broken". They're trying to break her shit

MITDJT

You have sonya 7-3 against Jade, i think it could be even worse. Sonya can iadk Jade inbetween her 23f2 and b32 strings. Although, Jade can do 23xspecial and will catch sonya trying to jump out, but sonya can ex cartwheel that. Next Sonya can ex carthweel 4f3 and 34. Maybe GamerBlake90 can elaborate more on this and we can play this match sometime soon.

It's not quite as bad for Jade as all that. Jade overall is faster than Sonya and has better range with her staff normals. Still not an easy night for Jade by any stretch of the imagination, but if Jade changes up her gameplan she can fluster Sonya.

 

[smokey]

she doesnt need to launch you with her strings...114 rd is enough to stagger you and either make you block a string (cause skarlet is in + frames) or armor because that is your only way out of the frame trap. Its a guess on your part and a read on my part...but whoever guesses right gets the advantage...problem is if skralet guesses right she gets 40% resets where if you guess right, you are only escaping pressure.

If your goal is to zone, thats fine, skarlet can avoid zoning dude.


uggg. logic escapes you doesnt it?

Not meaning to butt in but doesnt sonya do 40%+reset if she makes a read and armours through your frametrap. This is a battle of minds rather than tools when it comes to frametraps and armour vs armour.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not sure if SRS, you know where a vast majority the original game plan of Skarlet came from?

I took her in the lab and figured her out bare bones and from watching Match footage from Skar. I surely didnt learn her from you. You might have posted some easy mode tactics from forever ago but That doesnt mean you understand her tools nonetheless her MU.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not meaning to butt in but doesnt sonya do 40%+reset if she makes a read and armours through your frametrap. This is a battle of minds rather than tools when it comes to frametraps and armour vs armour.

Thats exactly what I am saying...but If i read armor and armor back...I will always win the armor war with skarlet...always.

I 100% agree with you.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I took her in the lab and figured her out bare bones and from watching Match footage from Skar. I surely didnt learn her from you. You might have posted some easy mode tactics from forever ago but That doesnt mean you understand her tools nonetheless her MU.

All the frame trap business with Skarlet originally came from myself & UFG. We know the character, and have done for a LONG time. We also have 2 Skarlet players as well, so dont just assume IDK what I'm talking about.

But if you matched me in a tournament and picked Skarlet, I wouldnt mind in the slightest. All of the things you've been mentioning as her strong points, I turn into weaknesses. Its just how I like to break down the game.

 

[smokey]

Thats exactly what I am saying...but If i read armor and armor back...I will always win the armor war with skarlet...always.

I 100% agree with you.

I think on the flip side though where foxy is coming from, if you armour through sonyas normals she just has to block because she has quick normals and can react to EX dash unless you are insta-sliding, but if she cartwheels through your string you get hurt, sonyas risk/reward for armoured cartwheel is really skewed.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I think on the flip side though where foxy is coming from, if you armour through sonyas normals she just has to block because she has quick normals and can react to EX dash unless you are insta-sliding, but if she cartwheels through your string you get hurt, sonyas risk/reward for armoured cartwheel is really skewed.

I get that...but that is my point. I only want to use armor when sonya does because I win that trade. If he is just jabbing at me I can poke out or string out.

The goal is NEVER to armor her strings unless I make a read that she will try to do a full string into MS. The goal is to pressure her with my strings, intentionally leaving small gaps that she has to either armor out of or block. Whoever makes the right read wins.

There is no doubt my armor is slow giving her time to jab...but in this MU the only way to even the field is to take away her ability to armor through the holes in my strings by using my armor.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

All the frame trap business with Skarlet originally came from myself & UFG. We know the character, and have done for a LONG time. We also have 2 Skarlet players as well, so dont just assume IDK what I'm talking about.

But if you matched me in a tournament and picked Skarlet, I wouldnt mind in the slightest. All of the things you've been mentioning as her strong points, I turn into weaknesses. Its just how I like to break down the game.

good for you...you figured out skarlet 101. She has changed, her meta game has changed, and it is obvious that you dont like skarlet...but you cant deny how effective her tools can be in the right situations. So you can praise sonya all day long...we all know how good and effective she is. But the right reads and tools used at the right time can counter all of sonyas tools. ALL of them.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

I know the Sonya MU. I'm sure several other high level player know it better than me.
every Sonya that doesn't make top 16 at Evo is gonna be on blast one way or another. She got all them teeth but no tooth brush.

 

[Peckapowa]

Lmao seriously. I can't take any match up charts seriously that are plastered with 8-2's and 9-1's. Thats like Akuma in ST or Ivan Ooze status.

mmmm.... at the highest level sonya has so much of an advantage against some chars that she might have an 8-2, she ha splenty of 7-3s and kenshi has plenty of 8-2s for sure.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

This chart makes me happy Thank you based MITDJT lmao.

no problem bro, i'm always going to keep it real with chars in the game.