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Match-up Discussion New Sonya on the rise: Mu chart/ discussion

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
IMO Sonya 8-2's Scorpion. I'm pretty sure GamerBlake90 agrees.

I know you've got a boner for Scorp tho so you might not wanna change it :p


EDIT: Also I know I'll get flamed but I still really see Noob-Sonya being slightly in his favor or even.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Thank god there's a Sonya who isn't still trying to push the ancient talking point that Sonya vs Kitana is even because "dude the zoning, there's nothing I can do".
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
MITDJT THE ABSOLUTE BEST MU CHART FOR SONYA TO DATE. One thing I would like to say though is that sonya freddy should not be advantage freddy. IMO the MU hasn't been played enough offline to really be judged. Offline you can react to projectiles with jumpovers or ducking. Also you don't have to freak out because of freddys sonya and jump like a maniac. IMO kenshi goes even with sonya maybe slight advantage for kenshi but I'm cool with 4-6 kenshi. Sonya loses to kabal 3-7 or 2-8 get that 4-6 shit outa here lol. That MU is so bad its not even funny. I'll prove that MU too if you want me too. Riu48 will agree with me that its horrible. Death wouldn't you say its 3-7?. I honestly believe its 2-8. Its whatever 3-7,2-8 but not 4-6
 
MITDJT THE ABSOLUTE BEST MU CHART FOR SONYA TO DATE. One thing I would like to say though is that sonya freddy should not be advantage freddy. IMO the MU hasn't been played enough offline to really be judged. Offline you can react to projectiles with jumpovers or ducking. Also you don't have to freak out because of freddys sonya and jump like a maniac. IMO kenshi goes even with sonya maybe slight advantage for kenshi but I'm cool with 4-6 kenshi. Sonya loses to kabal 3-7 or 2-8 get that 4-6 shit outa here lol. That MU is so bad its not even funny. I'll prove that MU too if you want me too. Riu48 will agree with me that its horrible. Death wouldn't you say its 3-7?. I honestly believe its 2-8. Its whatever 3-7,2-8 but not 4-6

i dunno man i think kenshi and freddy have much better zoning than kabal
 

Vocket

Day 1 Phenomenal Teth-Adam Player
liu is pretty dicked up close hes a frame off on everything against her...and she can actually be a pain in the ass when she zones a bit if u fuck up your timing... sonya has good answers to clone.
Liu outzones Sonya, iafb is faster than onion and a well time low fb ducks under it. Plus liu can actually punish that dumb bitch's d4 with b312. The dive kick/jp mix up is retarded, but I have had succes doing a max range 2 to stuff it out just dashing back out and whiff punishing with b312.
Of course Sonya is a an offensive powerhouse that you have to zone at all times, so to me mastering iafb is the only way I see to play it and liu's zoning is probably not strong enough to make it a 5-5. =/

As for Sub-zero, Sonya does have a good answer to clone but its her only answer, which means you can bait it to make a 50/50 mixup on whether she will ex cartwheel(and you punish with njp) or she will not(and she anti airs your jump).
In the corner you shouldn't give a fuck about her wake-ups if have a breaker, since you can immediately break and put a clone back up (mentioned in a tom brady video) and restart the trap.
Since you can slide under onion rings to force her to approach, you have to play a very dumb game of ex cartwheel lottery 'footsies', that consists of spamming d4, clones, dive kicks and ex cartwheel until something hits. Sub and Sonya depend heavily on their d4's, both of which can be punished cleanly. (unfortunately the reward for sonya is greater) Sonya's only good wake-up is ex cartwheel, so you can keep that her in jail for a good amount of time, and that makes up for sonya's other advantages

I love counter-picking Sonya with Sub, I would appreciate anything you can tell me that makes it a 6-4
 
Liu outzones Sonya, iafb is faster than onion and a well time low fb ducks under it. Plus liu can actually punish that dumb bitch's d4 with b312. The dive kick/jp mix up is retarded, but I have had succes doing a max range 2 to stuff it out just dashing back out and whiff punishing with b312.
Of course Sonya is a an offensive powerhouse that you have to zone at all times, so to me mastering iafb is the only way I see to play it and liu's zoning is probably not strong enough to make it a 5-5. =/

As for Sub-zero, Sonya does have a good answer to clone but its her only answer, which means you can bait it to make a 50/50 mixup on whether she will ex cartwheel(and you punish with njp) or she will not(and she anti airs your jump).
In the corner you shouldn't give a fuck about her wake-ups if have a breaker, since you can immediately break and put a clone back up (mentioned in a tom brady video) and restart the trap.
Since you can slide under onion rings to force her to approach, you have to play a very dumb game of ex cartwheel lottery 'footsies', that consists of spamming d4, clones, dive kicks and ex cartwheel until something hits. Sub and Sonya depend heavily on their d4's, both of which can be punished cleanly. (unfortunately the reward for sonya is greater) Sonya's only good wake-up is ex cartwheel, so you can keep that her in jail for a good amount of time, and that makes up for sonya's other advantages

I love counter-picking Sonya with Sub, I would appreciate anything you can tell me that makes it a 6-4

yeah good points man im not certain about the sub matchup but what i can say is this... my back 3 is 10 frame and my 2 is duckable and my d1 is 10 frames and my d3 is 7 can be divekicked in counterpoked... her cartwheel is -3 and it hurts real bad to block it and not know what to do.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
the MU for lao may be 4-6, but i'd say he has a 45% chance to win and sonya a 55% chance to win.
 

Vagrant

Noob
I still think Sonya sektor is 6-4 Sonya. I base that from running sets with pimpimjim. But to each their own
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
i dunno man i think kenshi and freddy have much better zoning than kabal
No way. Freddy first off can be dodged on reaction time. Online and the intimidation that freddy reaks on people causes them to jump when they shouldnt. Playing freddy more with cage I realize that hes not that difficult to get around and makes the kabal freddy MU look even worse. Kenshi doesn't have better zoning then kabal. You literally can't jump, or d4 MS against him. Just ex cartwheel or d1 into something. If you jump you will get hit by another gas blast or ex dashed and if you d4 MS the gas blast will hit you in MS unless you do d4 ex cartwheel to armor through it.
 
No way. Freddy first off can be dodged on reaction time. Online and the intimidation that freddy reaks on people causes them to jump when they shouldnt. Playing freddy more with cage I realize that hes not that difficult to get around and makes the kabal freddy MU look even worse. Kenshi doesn't have better zoning then kabal. You literally can't jump, or d4 MS against him. Just ex cartwheel or d1 into something. If you jump you will get hit by another gas blast or ex dashed and if you d4 MS the gas blast will hit you in MS unless you do d4 ex cartwheel to armor through it.
basically u dash duck up against kabal and play footsies until he corners himself... ull take chip from buzzsaws but up close hes risking a full combo everytime he throws a buzzsaw either by jump or armor... freddy and kenshi have legitimate chip and there is no viable way of getting in against kenshi outside of armor... i can play footsies with kabals zoning i cant vs kenshi... anytime u move vs freddy ur risking spikes.... nms and projectile mixups cause pushback too full screen and u have to worry about homing claws the whole time... even if u duck my straight claw at full screen if u dont jump ur getting spiked for trying to get out.... if u jump i can catch you for 45%. i highly doubt even offline u can perfectly deal with projectile and ground claw mixups... if ur late jumping my low glove ur getting aa spiked.
 

LEGEND

YES!
basically u dash duck up against kabal and play footsies until he corners himself... ull take chip from buzzsaws but up close hes risking a full combo everytime he throws a buzzsaw either by jump or armor... freddy and kenshi have legitimate chip and there is no viable way of getting in against kenshi outside of armor... i can play footsies with kabals zoning i cant vs kenshi... anytime u move vs freddy ur risking spikes.... nms and projectile mixups cause pushback too full screen and u have to worry about homing claws the whole time... even if u duck my straight claw at full screen if u dont jump ur getting spiked for trying to get out.... if u jump i can catch you for 45%. i highly doubt even offline u can perfectly deal with projectile and ground claw mixups... if ur late jumping my low glove ur getting aa spiked.
Great post. i completely agree
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i still have no idea why kabal's zoning is still a major taking point in todays game. It literally does no damage unless you fuck up, and pushes him to the corner at the same time. Att all kabals, Pls zone me
 
I've always wondered why she has advantage over Cage. Why is it 6-4 Sonya?
I go between 6-4 Sonya and 5-5 all the time, although I can agree with 6-4 Sonya. The biggest threats to Cage are d4, divekick, and EX cartwheel. Most of her strings can be interrupted and can even be full combo punishable if you do it correctly. However, she doesn't really need to use strings to pressure Cage - the threat of divekick, which blows up almost all of Cage's footsies options, and the threat of EX cartwheel when Cage applies pressure, are enough. D4 can be stuffed with f3 at the right distances, as well as nutpunched, but it's obviously easier said than done. Overall, she can dominate the midscreen and fullscreen distances (her projectile is extremely good, but it only goes so far against a competent Cage), but Cage can win up close. However, she makes him really respect the EX cartwheel. Her d1 and uppercut are also viable options for getting out of Cage's pressure.
 

Death

Noob
MITDJT THE ABSOLUTE BEST MU CHART FOR SONYA TO DATE. One thing I would like to say though is that sonya freddy should not be advantage freddy. IMO the MU hasn't been played enough offline to really be judged. Offline you can react to projectiles with jumpovers or ducking. Also you don't have to freak out because of freddys sonya and jump like a maniac. IMO kenshi goes even with sonya maybe slight advantage for kenshi but I'm cool with 4-6 kenshi. Sonya loses to kabal 3-7 or 2-8 get that 4-6 shit outa here lol. That MU is so bad its not even funny. I'll prove that MU too if you want me too. Riu48 will agree with me that its horrible. Death wouldn't you say its 3-7?. I honestly believe its 2-8. Its whatever 3-7,2-8 but not 4-6
I find Kabal easier than Kenshi, Freddy. But I can agree with 3-7.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Riu48 and Blake are going to have a heart attack when they see this thread *grabs popcorn*
Sorry to deprive you of your entertainment, but I'll pass. Since a majority of the community has grown quite content with crucifying us Sonya players simply because we don't think she wins EVERY match-up like 10-0, not to mention insulting us by acting like we don't know how to play our own character, I'll just let everyone draw their conclusions. *shrugs*

IMO Sonya 8-2's Scorpion. I'm pretty sure GamerBlake90 agrees.

I know you've got a boner for Scorp tho so you might not wanna change it :p


EDIT: Also I know I'll get flamed but I still really see Noob-Sonya being slightly in his favor or even.
I do agree with the numbers on Scorpion vs. Sonya, though I usually see it as 7-3 for Sonya. But 8-2 works. Scorpion's only prayer is a lucky hit leading to the vortex. Inferior normals, inferior anti-airs, his mix-ups being punishable unlike Sonya's...man. Poor guy. :(

Noob vs. Sonya, I'm a bit torn on. On one hand, I see Sonya coming out ahead 6-4, but on the other I can see Noob Saibot using his tools in a way that can even the odds. Personally, I feel that unless I am within range to d4 or EX Cartwheel, I have to make a lot of wild guesses just to keep close to Noob. I've actually been contemplating this match-up hard for the past couple of days and thought about opening a thread to discuss that match-up in its entirety, after I open up another one that really needs voicing. Soon to come...

EDIT: Also, nice chart from MITDJT.