Video New Patch Podcast - Is the game really better off?

[Karma]

Only wish now is every character should have 2 hit of armor, bring back the previous stamina, add recovery on whiff jumping or neutral attack, buff backdashes, inputs responding wrong for mileena or whoever else.

 

[M2Dave]

Where can I view the P2W Tier Formula for all variations? Will you post it?

If the TYM site staff finally got their heads out of their asses, perhaps he could be un-banned and post the rating formula on his own.

P2W's formula isn't the best imo. Most well rounded doesn't always equal best.

Example = Tarkatan Alien on the last version. Cryomancer on this version.

To be fair, he said there could be some exceptions.

Dave, listen. Randomly guessing with armored launchers on offense is STUPID. From what i know you've been around for a while and played a bunch of FG's, so why is your only option to stop people from mashing upclose is armor spam? F121 into D1 now has a 6 frame gap, that can frametrap alot of characters, you can also do F121 walk back B1D4, stagger F12 into something else. Like come on you dont need armor to make people afraid of pressing buttons, just because it doesnt work on a training dummy doesnt mean it wont work on real players, they are not going to reversal on first frame if you are correctly mixing up your offense. You actually have to find smarter ways to steal peoples turn instead of just randomly doing armored launchers getting wins you didnt earn. I play tremor and im happy they nerfed ex shatter, it was way too braindead and i felt bad for using it.

Fair point.

But what about the weakened defense and anti-aerial options? In Aftershock, my EX shatter is unsafe and does 14% of damage. My best anti-aerial option is an uppercut that does 14% of damage when I used to get close to 30% of damage with EX up stone punch.

NRS has also buffed offense for a handful of characters. Have you fought Cryomancer Sub Zero yet? He must have like 10 tick throws, a 50/50 mix up, an EX slide with two hits of armor to close the gap quickly, and jumping attacks that are difficult to anti air. If he is to keep all these offensive options, I want safe armor.

 

[ShArp]

So Dave still crying about loosing safe/armored launcher? Poor Dave.

Just gonna leave it here as it's not worth my time to try explaining how EX Low shatter is still viable tool in Crystalline's arsenal.

you can still use it to mix people up in more than one string. On top of that, as a Tremor - you have a freakin Flash Parry that gives any of your moves/specials 1 hit armor after you cancel the EX DB2 into run. With it you can literally get armored: wakeups/ reversals, jailing, mixups.

And while you have Flash parry - you want additional armored/safe'ish EX Low Shatter that launches? That's nonsense.

Oh and metallic in Lava skin, without EX Punch parry, also has another, two hit armored parry from EX DB1. So yeah...

Long story short: Adapt.

I would rather take opinion and arguments of some actual Crystalline mains like @Killer Xinok @YUZU_RZA or Madzin (on twitch mentioned how Tremor got amazing buffs) who are top level Tremors atm and do play in tournaments / has tournament experience and knows how to use the character and do agree he got buffs he needed. Not just the basic m2dave gameplan which is "F121, F121, EX Low shatter here and there" - repeat. No use of Punch cancel parry for armored wakeups/mixups/jailing or reversals - nothing.

So yeah, Tremor got buffs he needed: Faster poke, actual faster mid that jails after D1 confirm, faster and +on block F2, +6 on block F4, another, double armored, EXDB1 parry - On top of that all he still has HTB in the corner for 1 bar that breaks single hit armor and leads to 45-47% dmg combo and puts opponent into another hard knockdown lol. FLASH FUCKING PARRY.

Metallic became viable, Crystalline is still very strong due to additional mixup tool/armor and Aftershock's zoning (especially with IAQ) became godlike due to general universal stamina nerf for running opponents getting hit

But I guess Crystalline is "Abysmal" huh?
If I was ever to take someone's opinion on Tremor seriously - that certainly wouldn't be m2dave's.

 

[DirtySanchez]

Fair point.

But what about the weakened defense and anti-aerial options? In Aftershock, my EX shatter is unsafe and does 14% of damage. My best anti-aerial option is an uppercut that does 14% of damage when I used to get close to 30% of damage with EX up stone punch.

NRS has also buffed offense for a handful of characters. Have you fought Cryomancer Sub Zero yet? He must have like 10 tick throws, a 50/50 mix up, an EX slide with two hits of armor to close the gap quickly, and jumping attacks that are difficult to anti air. If he is to keep all these offensive options, I want safe armor.

I think tremors D2 is really good overall and yes it only does 14% but it sets up a meaty rolling stone and now you can try to zone them out with IAQ and just generally play the neutral game. You can also anti air with standing 2 into F121 combo for about 25%, now it might not work against the stupid jump ins but thats an issue with those jump attacks and not tremor. When it comes to how the neutral is played now for the most part, it actually feels like a fighting game.

Yeah im aware of some characters being too stupid, but i mean they just literally remade the whole game in a couple months and they are not done yet, i would expect some changes to characters like cryomancer, drastically reducing the range on ermac's push and just small things like that. They fixed alot of the big issues with the game like armored launchers and run cancels, they can throw together a quick hotfix to fix cryomancers tick throws in a week. Plus i mean you will never find a fighting game where the #1 character is as good as the character ranked dead last, unless the game only has 1 character.

 

[YUZU_RZA]

The game is better now. Tremor is fine.

 

[trufenix]

Not even one week is necessary to see the obvious consequences of some decisions.

Nonsense. What you can tell after one week is that the old way of life is gone. Whether or not that means another one will prevail in its absence requires time and testing, as always.

What actually scares me is that, after 7 months of work, nrs has brought a patch that treats every character the same with a general change, without caring about the particular strategy of every character. Not every armor launcher worked the same, nor had the same place in its character gameplan.
Removing all of them is just a lazy and wrong decision, imo.

Lets not make this about something it isn't. If a decision is 90% good for the game its a good decision, the 10% just have to hold that. The issue here is that Kenshi is bad. Poking a hole in the rest of the games meta for one bad character is never the answer.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

First of all, overhead stone punch is too slow to be used as a mix up with low stone shatter.

Second of all, any armor is canceled when performed while crystallized.

You know nothing about the character.

Nobody is gonna block the overhead 100% of the time lol also being crystallized and not having armor had nothing to do with my point. My point was you can't wakeup on Tremor. Also I know a lot about the character. I used to play Tremor and I have 3 friends that actually use the character and have been using him for a long time. Just because I made a case for why the character isn't bad doesn't mean "you know nothing about the character"

 

[ismael4790]

Nonsense. What you can tell after one week is that the old way of life is gone. Whether or not that means another one will prevail in its absence requires time and testing, as always.



Lets not make this about something it isn't. If a decision is 90% good for the game its a good decision, the 10% just have to hold that. The issue here is that Kenshi is bad. Poking a hole in the rest of the games meta for one bad character is never the answer.

If you can't see in one week the problem in Kenshi not having exrk as an option and how that immensely limits his gameplan and threat options, i don't know what to tell you man. Maybe you are more blind than him.


Lackey says hi. Crystalline says hi.
I only feel entitled to talk about my characters Kenshi and Cage (who is now pretty free on knowdown btw, not having mid armor) which I know in depth. But I'm sure other players will tell you the problems this generic armor removal decision has brought.

 

[trufenix]

If you can't see in one week the problem in Kenshi not having exrk as an option and how that immensely limits his gameplan and threat options, i don't know what to tell you man. Maybe you are more blind than him.

I can see in 30 seconds that it hurts him. What I can't see in a week is whether anything else will help / take its place / prove its no longer necessary.

Lackey says hi. Crystalline says hi.
I only feel entitled to talk about my characters Kenshi and Cage (who is know pretty free on knowdown btw, not having mid armor) which I know in depth. But I'm sure other players will tell you the problems this generic armor removal decision has brought.

Welcome to the 10%. The goal of a patch is to fix the game, not give a specific set of players a handjob. The game overall is better without them, the only people who don't agree with that are the minority who got screwed.

 

[Undeadjim]

Great podcast, @YOMI REO what is your current position on good mid strings? I feel with the toning down of armor characters than don't have a quick enough mid string get caught up in this new meta of constantly disrespect from the aggressor given that they may only have to worry about getting caught with a 15%ish armor move, which may be unsafe regardless.

What I believe has happened as a result of the weekend armor is mid strings have become increasingly valuable to warrant respect and those without end up in this meta game where the turns are based of who gets the correct read on pokes rather than than accepting negative frames and blocking.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

If the TYM site staff finally got their heads out of their asses, perhaps he could be un-banned and post the rating formula on his own.

You mean, if he learns to function like an actual adult, instead of a whiny baby who harasses people in PMs, changes his name and trolls constantly when he doesn't get his way, whines nonstop to developers, attempts to ruin working relationships and is generally cancerous to be around.

TYM isn't the first place he's been kicked out of and it won't be the last (and you know what I'm talking about).

Level up Dave, you fool.

 

[Invincible Salads]

i think the game is worse than it was before, characters that were designed to armor break now pretty much can't, cancel characters got shat on, some characters armored launchers were very important to them. This patch is so stupid.

 

[Slymind]

"My character got buffed" = Game is better
"My character got nerfed" = Game is worse

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

You mean, if he learns to function like an actual adult, instead of a whiny baby who harasses people in PMs, changes his name and trolls constantly when he doesn't get his way, whines nonstop to developers, attempts to ruin working relationships and is generally cancerous to be around.

TYM isn't the first place he's been kicked out of and it won't be the last (and you know what I'm talking about).

Level up Dave, you fool.

Crimson let it go

You guys allow egl jagged to do the same but worse, and there was a time TYM made glorTor a mod. Apologize

P2w offerings in the cast are better than 99.9% of the new posts u guys allow to fly around here

You'll agree privately but do nothing in public

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You guys allow egl jagged to do the same but worse, and there was a time TYM made glorTor a mod. Apologize

P2w offerings in the cast are better than 99.9% of the new posts u guys allow to fly around here

You'll agree privately but do nothing in public

Glortor is no longer a mod (and understands why)
P2W is no longer a poster

Neither of these choices were about tier lists or balance suggestions, but personality and behavior choices.

You can call me privately whenever you want, and I'll tell you the same.

As an aside, he's tweeting me now, but I can't even read the tweets because he has my account blocked on Twitter. That shows the maturity level we're dealing with here.

 

[M2Dave]

As an aside, he's tweeting me now, but I can't even read the tweets because he has my account blocked on Twitter. That shows the maturity level we're dealing with here.

Sure. But you hold the high ground with your maturity level by promoting users to moderators for doing the exact same thing that you accuse Playing To Win of doing and banning him for life because of a personal agenda.

@STORMS, this fool need to be regulated. Do something.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Sure. But you hold the high ground with your maturity level by promoting users to moderators for doing the exact same thing that you accuse Playing To Win of doing and banning him for life because of a personal agenda.

Not only did I not ban P2W, but I bet you couldn't name one user I've personally promoted to a mod.

One thing I have done however, is personally save you from a 'trolling' ban multiple times over -- mostly because I understand that your posts are actually tounge-in-cheek and are meant to stress/make important points, in a sideways fashion.

Get your facts together, fool.

 

[Eddy Wang]

For the first time since a patch came out i'm actually happy.
The game is infinitely better, and i think this version is far superior than the previous one, if there is one thing we don't need back is armored launchers, stealing turns and stuff to get combos, now everyone will have to be good at defend and not just randomly attack and press buttons.

To anyone who wants armored launchers back, sorry but git gud.


My preditions to top tier character, the whole 3 Kung Lao variations are probably close if not S tier as well.

 

[KH StarCharger]

To simply answer the question, yes this game is better off as it is now. The game isn't a 50/50 suckfest anymore. People don't have to worry about offense reversing armor anymore and yet they still have viable "get off me" options. People just need to adjust and learn how to win the game without the mentality of "I'll mix you until you die". Everyone got hit with the launching armor change so everyone will have to deal accordingly.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Dave I'm surprised you didn't bring up Jax vs Grandmaster
@YOMI REO is there any changes you'd make to block breakers?

 

[loogie]

seriously, I haven't see such a whiny community..
the game is much better now. and whoever is asking for armored launchers to be back, armored safe launchers to be exact is out of his mind.
it is so selfish.
the game in its entirety was BROKE before the patch, even if you had normalized Alien and the top tiers and buffed some characters but kept the armored launchers in the game it was not fun, it was so braindead. cheap to be exact with the amount of ex reversals, and no regard for poking or spacing in that meta. poke and counter poking? f that shit, the opponent didn't need to respect any of it, they'd just go for their ex launcher without having to worry about it.

whoever is complaining now and wants their precious safe, cheap way out of tools, should go and learn how to play the game the right way. THIS patch is what we've been waiting for, and how that it has arrived and we really enjoy the game we get to hear a few whiny folks about lost tools, to be exact LOST CHEAP ARMORED REVERSALS THAT WERE SAFE.

MK9 didn't have ex armored reversals... and it was way more fun than pre 10-04 patch MKXL even with the brokenness of the top tiers in MK9. at least the game was FUN and promoted better play, healthier matchups.

I am sick of seeing such threads, and the constant whining. the patch has been out for a week.. LET THE GAME BREATHE for crying out loud.

sure, if something is OP and broken it should be fixed but to bring back ex armors is a big no no to me and to a lot of players now, both in the TYM community and in the competitive scenes elsewhere.

 

[loogie]

Not even one week is necessary to see the obvious consequences of some decisions. Myself only needed 30 seconds to read the patch notes and be pretty sure that Balanced was fucked with exrisingkarma nerf (and no relevant buffs to compensate for the loss), which I've been testing these days and I can confirm that's the case.

Players that main other characters, like Dave with crystalline, can tell you about their own characters state after armor launcher removals. Just some characters had them in the core of their gameplan, and they have not been redesigned enough to compensate that loss.

Time is needed for some things, other things just can be seen at a glance.

What actually scares me is that, after 7 months of work, nrs has brought a patch that treats every character the same with a general change, without caring about the particular strategy of every character. Not every armor launcher worked the same, nor had the same place in its character gameplan.
Removing all of them is just a lazy and wrong decision, imo.

if they give back ex risinig karma with armor, Kenshi would be immediately top tier in a roster who doesn't have any armored launchers. now how is that fair? Kenshi by design, may not be suited to the game mechanics of MKXL, so what?! maybe its a design fuck up, maybe its not suited to every one's playstyle (this character). I know a lot of Kenshi players that are happy with the changes, and believe the recent changes make him a stronger character.

 

[loogie]

The no zoning trend is dead the no armour trend is what's in now

I would not call ex low shatter useless as it can be used to cancel after f121 ex low shatter to catch opponents trying to poke.

Metallic actually has a really good armour move now in this mets of the game

THIS

 

[VerminatorX]

For me, game is better now. Its much slower paced, there are hits/blockstrings exchanges instead of just yolo armor through enemy offense, this is nice. Feels much different, but nice nonetheless.

I just wish they release another patch with further tier polishing, buff some weaklings and its good to end development cycle.

Also, instead of this silly Kounter, more useful would be "punishment" prompt, imo.

Also, release fucking Fujin.

 

[Tweedy]

P2W has been cool to me but he's basically my cousin.

Glortor was a mod? lol