Video New Patch Podcast - Is the game really better off?

[M2Dave]

Spoiler: List of Topics

- Initial and general impressions of the new version of the game

- Character specific discussions on Kenshi (Pig), Predator (REO), Shinnok (P2W), and Tremor (m2dave)

- Heated debate on armor attacks

- Playing To Win's new formula rating system for characters

- Fool of the Week segment

- Top 5 character predictions

Promoted by Youphemism

 

[TheGangstaFace]

"Low shatter is useless"...you mean that move that adds a low to his mixup game that launches and is safe??? Overhead fist is a negative launcher. Low crystal is a LOW SAFE LAUNCHER. How is it useless? Also crystalline gets the flex. 2hits of armor? Who cares tremor eats that. Crystalline bad confirmed lol

 

[M2Dave]

"Low shatter is useless"...you mean that move that adds a low to his mixup game that launches and is safe??? Overhead fist is a negative launcher. Low crystal is a LOW SAFE LAUNCHER. How is it useless? Also crystalline gets the flex. 2hits of armor? Who cares tremor eats that. Crystalline bad confirmed lol

First of all, overhead stone punch is too slow to be used as a mix up with low stone shatter.

Second of all, any armor is canceled when performed while crystallized.

You know nothing about the character.

 

[virtiqaL]

Before I click play on this... yes, I believe the game is undeniably much better. Perfect? No, but neither was MK9 even after it's final patch and many of us love(d) that game. I wouldn't mind seeing further tweaks and some minor rebalancing, but I definitely don't want this game to go anywhere near what it was before, it's headed in a better direction.

There's literally nothing positive I can say about prepatch MKX. It sucked, and apparently NRS agrees based on this overhaul.

Before the patch, I couldn't, and didn't believe anyone could actually enjoy playing MKX. I felt like anyone that said anything good about it was basically trolling in a sense, or in denial.

 

[GLoRToR]

Before I click play on this... yes, I believe the game is undeniably much better. Perfect? No, but neither was MK9 even after it's final patch and many of us love(d) that game. I wouldn't mind seeing further tweaks and some minor rebalancing, but I definitely don't want this game to go anywhere near what it was before, it's headed in a better direction.

There's literally nothing positive I can say about prepatch MKX. It sucked, and apparently NRS agrees based on this overhaul.

They said it loud and clear: They will patch.

 

[Gofer_MK]

Spoiler

List of Topics

- Initial and general impressions of the new version of the game

- Character specific discussions on Kenshi (Pig), Predator (REO), Shinnok (P2W), and Tremor (m2dave)

- Heated debate on armor attacks

- Playing To Win's new formula rating system for characters

- Fool of the Week segment

- Top 5 character predictions

@STORMS
@Tim Static
@YOMI RM JagoBlake

Front page, please.

Where can I view the P2W Tier Formula for all variations? Will you post it?

 

[Shade667]

They said it loud and clear: They will patch.

If needed.

 

[Tweedy]

P2W's formula isn't the best imo. Most well rounded doesn't always equal best.

Example = Tarkatan Alien on the last version. Cryomancer on this version.

Edit: Not saying those two are the respective #1s, but they're definitely better than some characters that may be more well rounded.

 

[GLoRToR]

If needed.

What?

 

[Braindead]

Reo said what I've been thinking about HQT since the patch came out.

Gonna be interesting seeing HQT in high level play.

 

[ismael4790]

Interesting podcast.

I think nrs should really look into those characters that got severely hurted by armor launcher removal (like Crystalline Tremor or Balanced Kenshi as Pig and Dave mentioned) and find a solution because they have become pretty useless.

Maybe armor only working as a reversal and wakeup, or when the opponent is in the air, or when you have full stamina (to prevent run into armor, focusing on the defensive use of it), or scaling it more so you can't get 30% combos off it... (I personally think this would be the best solution, only allowing them to get around 22-24% as pu jax gets off his -9 double armored gotcha extreme, for example) but definitely just removing the armor seems the worst and less creative of the options.

 

[Tweedy]

Giving Crystalline his safe launching armor back would put him in a tier by himself, in the current game. I understand that Crystalline and Balanced both were hurt by that change, but these are not the same characters. I'm sure even Dave would agree that if Crystalline were reverted back, some other characters would need to be as well.

Balanced on the other hand could retain launching armor and be fair, perhaps. Just my opinion.

 

[OmGxBdON]

Make low shatter have caltrops and become are hard knockdown : P. Do something creative NRS

 

[Gofer_MK]

Maybe armor only working as a reversal and wakeup.

I think this is the way to go.

 

[Safe Armor]

The main issue was safe 50/50s and weak aas (OP jump ins) now 5050s are still in and aas are somehow better but still not ideal, they remove most armor moves that could aa consistently thus making aas weaker in a way.

whatever happened to buffing pushblock? buffing backdashes? reducing active frames on advancing strings? adding more landing recovery on whiffed jumping attacks etc? 16bit just buffed the heck outta Kitana and he was done.


so is it better? hmmm it could be if they fix all these issues above.

 

[Asodimazze]

I personally think the game is more unbalanced now than it was before. The general changes to armored launchers and stamina messed a lot of characters up, because they weren't designed to work in the current version of the game.

NRS didn't really try to find any kind of balance...they only changed the game rules.

What is the point of nerfing already bottom tier variations like Lackey and High Tech? Isn't it obvious that they didn't deserve this treatment?

Why did they give Kitana a perfect armored move and a billion buffs when she was already decent before and certainly didn't need all this. Why does Cryo have 9 tick throws when grapplers in mkx have far less?

Why is Cage left with no mid armor and unreliable execution due to the stupid 5f delay? And so on...

 

[Safe Armor]

Honestly Mystic is top but no OP. he barely reaches 37% damage now, with slower f4 he cant really land his 40% combos and damage reduction, plus is practically impossible land his b12 string after teleport, so he gets 29% off an unsafe mix up.

plus ex push does not have 2 frames of armor, only one at least from patch notes. and its now -5 and no pushback.

and no I dont think they will nerf it.

 

[STRYKIE]

The main issue was safe 50/50s and weak aas (OP jump ins) now 5050s are still in and aas are somehow better but still not ideal, they remove most armor moves that could aa consistently thus making aas weaker in a way.

whatever happened to buffing pushblock? buffing backdashes? reducing active frames on advancing strings? adding more landing recovery on whiffed jumping attacks etc? 16bit just buffed the heck outta Kitana and he was done.


so is it better? hmmm it could be if they fix all these issues above.

Hi P2W.

 

[Youphemism]

@General M2Dave tags don't work in edits so they won't see your tag, and Tim has reitred from TYM. If you want an article front paged tag either myself, @Eldriken, @Alien Substance, @Goldy, @CrimsonShadow or @STORMS

 

[IrishMantis]

The no zoning trend is dead the no armour trend is what's in now

I would not call ex low shatter useless as it can be used to cancel after f121 ex low shatter to catch opponents trying to poke.

Metallic actually has a really good armour move now in this mets of the game

 

[ChatterBox]

I wanna know what p2w gave Dragon Fangs Goro on his scale. He ticks all these boxes. He has a good 50/50 and a couple tick throws, several safe specials to cancel into, and two that do 5% chip for meter build, he has a crazy advancing normal and a teleport for mobility, and he has two safe armored moves, one of which is plus on block, and an armored command grab so his wakeup game has two unblockables and a plus on block move. So why isn't he top 5 in that "potential main" discussion?

 

[DirtySanchez]

Dave, listen. Randomly guessing with armored launchers on offense is STUPID. From what i know you've been around for a while and played a bunch of FG's, so why is your only option to stop people from mashing upclose is armor spam? F121 into D1 now has a 6 frame gap, that can frametrap alot of characters, you can also do F121 walk back B1D4, stagger F12 into something else. Like come on you dont need armor to make people afraid of pressing buttons, just because it doesnt work on a training dummy doesnt mean it wont work on real players, they are not going to reversal on first frame if you are correctly mixing up your offense. You actually have to find smarter ways to steal peoples turn instead of just randomly doing armored launchers getting wins you didnt earn. I play tremor and im happy they nerfed ex shatter, it was way too braindead and i felt bad for using it.

 

[trufenix]

I think nrs should really look into those characters that got severely hurted by armor launcher removal (like Crystalline Tremor or Balanced Kenshi as Pig and Dave mentioned) and find a solution because they have become pretty useless.

I don't understand how we can expect NRS to "really look into" anything when we (the actual players) haven't even given the new meta a full week before questioning if the game is improved at all.

what's the spectrum for accountability when top players post threads about needing time to evaluate AND threads about broken game damaging tech in the same day?

 

[Gofer_MK]

I wanna know what p2w gave Dragon Fangs Goro on his scale. He ticks all these boxes. He has a good 50/50 and a couple tick throws, several safe specials to cancel into, and two that do 5% chip for meter build, he has a crazy advancing normal and a teleport for mobility, and he has two safe armored moves, one of which is plus on block, and an armored command grab so his wakeup game has two unblockables and a plus on block move. So why isn't he top 5 in that "potential main" discussion?

I want to put my hands on this list sooo bad.

 

[ismael4790]

I don't understand how we can expect NRS to "really look into" anything when we (the actual players) haven't even given the new meta a full week before questioning if the game is improved at all.

what's the spectrum for accountability when top players post threads about needing time to evaluate AND threads about broken game damaging tech in the same day?

Not even one week is necessary to see the obvious consequences of some decisions. Myself only needed 30 seconds to read the patch notes and be pretty sure that Balanced was fucked with exrisingkarma nerf (and no relevant buffs to compensate for the loss), which I've been testing these days and I can confirm that's the case.

Players that main other characters, like Dave with crystalline, can tell you about their own characters state after armor launcher removals. Just some characters had them in the core of their gameplan, and they have not been redesigned enough to compensate that loss.

Time is needed for some things, other things just can be seen at a glance.

What actually scares me is that, after 7 months of work, nrs has brought a patch that treats every character the same with a general change, without caring about the particular strategy of every character. Not every armor launcher worked the same, nor had the same place in its character gameplan.
Removing all of them is just a lazy and wrong decision, imo.