New MKX TIER LIST Presented by Team YOMI! (12/03/15)

[ismael4790]

Would be great to see a detailed variation tier list.
Some characters that are quite high have shitty variations.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

MKX....where over half the cast can win....yeah fuck the haters.

 

[Mortal Komhat]

1) I have no idea why REO tagged me as a well-established Goro player. Call me when I stop scrubbing out 0-2 because of player skill.

2) I'd put Goro in A over B personally. I feel we've grossly overstated his bad matchups based on the skills of the current Goro crop (which I'll be the first to admit that beyond Decay we're all not very good competitively) rather than on his tools alone so if he was placed in B due to his bad matchups, that placement may need to be revised later.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Haha...all the people saying Tremor day one being bottom 5. Ahhh, tussah.

 

[DrFolmer]

Can someone explain to me what makes Cassie better than Johnny?

Johnny has:

Better nut punch
Better anti-zoning (ex shadow kick)
Better pressure
Equal zoning
Equal footsies (f3, d4)
Equal damage
Equal 50/50's (Cassie's has easier access to them but are pseudo unsafe without meter. Johnny's are harder to set up but are safe and don't need meter)
Worse jump attacks

I just don't understand the Cassie hype these days. She's good, but I don't get the S tier top 5 talk she still gets to this day.

Cassie and Johnny are different characters. They do not have equal 50/50's - Cassie is a WHOLE lot better in this department. Cassie also has extremely fast moves and great buttons. Flipkick can do a lot for you as long as you use it wisely, and the ex version is dope as well. And seriously, Johnny can't jump in this game, his normals are so fucking bad it hurts.

Johnny can actually make his "50/50" attempts plus, at least his overhead option, while 113 skrc is safe when done right. Even if you predict that your opponent blocks the overhead, but he still gets hit by it nevertheless, Johnny can still sneak in a d1 to start the juggle and end in a f3 Nutpunch. So Johnny either stays + or gets a combo.

They do not have equal damage, Johnny's BnB midscreen is 21-20 % damage depending on cancels, and has to use meter for more. You can however do stuff like f24, d1, f24 Nutpunch for a few more % but is much more strict in timing. Cassie has combos that reach well over 30 % with the right launchers, even midscreen - so that they have equal damage is false.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Ok? Timeout!!! Does Jason really not have any winning match ups. That can't be right. Can it?

 

[lilyunggrabbagjr]

i'm curious why Liu Kang never makes anyone's S tier on these lists. How many losing matchups does dragon's fire actually have, and if there are any, how many of those are not just other S tier characters?

Df liu kang has a hard time against goro

 

[Slips]

Johnny has various execution barriers. Cassie, on the other hand, has very few, if any.

Should we really base how good the character is based on how bad the player is?

Cassie and Johnny are different characters. They do not have equal 50/50's - Cassie is a WHOLE lot better in this department. Cassie also has extremely fast moves and great buttons. Flipkick can do a lot for you as long as you use it wisely, and the ex version is dope as well. And seriously, Johnny can't jump in this game, his normals are so fucking bad it hurts.

Johnny can actually make his "50/50" attempts plus, at least his overhead option, while 113 skrc is safe when done right. Even if you predict that your opponent blocks the overhead, but he still gets hit by it nevertheless, Johnny can still sneak in a d1 to start the juggle and end in a f3 Nutpunch. So Johnny either stays + or gets a combo.

They do not have equal damage, Johnny's BnB midscreen is 21-20 % damage depending on cancels, and has to use meter for more. You can however do stuff like f24, d1, f24 Nutpunch for a few more % but is much more strict in timing. Cassie has combos that reach well over 30 % with the right launchers, even midscreen - so that they have equal damage is false.

I agree Cassie can punish better than Johnny. I forgot about that.

Hmmm I don't see Cassie doing that much more damage than Johnny. Johnny can get over 30% with a bar just like she can. Even if she does do a little more, Johnny makes up for it in guaranteed chip and pressure without the use of meter.

I stand by my argument that Cassie is over-hyped.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

There is no defensive character in this game, besides possibly predator, who is good. Mobility and offense are too strong and this means that characters like kitana, kenshi, kano, and shinnok simply can't compete against the true top tiers. Fortunately, shinnok has better offense than those other characters but even then, he has to take more risks than the true top tiers in this game. Most people think a character like kitana is good because of sonic, but in reality, he is massively outplaying people and as of late he has started using her less and less.

TLDR: Shinnok is a defensive character in a game where offense rules.

Lol c'mon dude, you can't seriously mean the statement that "Shinnok simply can't compete."

I agree Shinnok is not top tier, but that statement is just silly. He may not *win* matchups vs the top tier but he can certainly compete.

 

[Mortal Komhat]

Should we really base how good the character is based on how bad the player is?

IMHO that's what's happening with Goro but it's up to his playerbase to step it up.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Fineally someone who doesnt put liu kang in S. Can someone more informed please explain why tremor, predator, and shinnok are S? A+ sure but how in gods name are they as good as kung lao? I know they are very good characters but im having trouble understanding why how they can be considered as good as lao and quan. Wouldnt tremor at least need a mid? Im not trying to be a douchey dickweed im genuinely asking.

 

[ForeverKing]

Dude you guys made a tier list on my birthday without me!

All I'm gonna say is there is absolutely no way Predator is better than Liu Kang and Jax and Cage! What?!? Wrester Dragon Fire and A-list all have 2 or less losing matchups, I can name at least 3-4 losing matchups for Predator.

Now that I think about it Sub Zero doesn't really lose to anyone either. This is one of our most shakiest tier lists yet honestly

 

[Pan1cMode]

44% bnbs
Safe OH launcher
Safe low launcher
FTs
Counter zoning
Great meter build
Top 3 walk
Great d4
8f mid
High dmG meter less combos
S1 AA on cross ups


Yea she's probably Garbo

Agree with all of this except the d4.

Would also add heaps of +frames and great block pressure.

 

[GuamoKun]

I stand by my argument that Cassie is over-hyped.

needs meter to be safe and even then so many strings have gaps that are her main tools.

her best thing is that she punish a lot of stuff I guess. She's not S IMO but A++

 

[HoneyBee]

Will sektor/cyrax/smoke be treated as separate characters tier wise or will they all be classified as "robot character"?

 

[Pan1cMode]

Can someone explain to me what makes Cassie better than Johnny?

Johnny has:

Better nut punch
Better anti-zoning (ex shadow kick)
Better pressure
Equal zoning
Equal footsies (f3, d4)
Equal damage
Equal 50/50's (Cassie's has easier access to them but are pseudo unsafe without meter. Johnny's are harder to set up but are safe and don't need meter)
Worse jump attacks

I just don't understand the Cassie hype these days. She's good, but I don't get the S tier top 5 talk she still gets to this day.

Johnny doesn't have a 6 frame safe armoured reversal that leads to full combo.

Cassie also has much better anti-airs.

 

[Espio]

As far as why Goro is placed so low it's only because of the losing match ups we had down for him which are: Quan Chi, Shinnok, Kung Lao, Kung Jin, Predator, Tanya, Kano, etc. I'm sure some of the well established Goro players can chime in on this segment. @Decay @Espio @Mortal Komhat @Alright RyRy

Since the purpose of these type of discussions should be depth I'm gonna make a pretty lengthy post.

I feel like only talking about losing match ups doesn't tell the whole story, just like only talking about winning match ups doesn't. I do however agree that he loses to several of the listed character that I will touch upon down below.


I don't think Kano is on that list of bad match ups by any means. It's a pretty fair match up all around regardless of variation, Kano doesn't truly hinder him in any notable ways I can think of. If I recall, Coach Steve had it as 5-5 when he made his chart as well.

I don't think anybody that has to approach Goro (i.e. rushdown characters) should be an issue for Goro. As a matter of fact, he does great versus D'Vorah (the knockdown game is real), Jax, Cassie, Johnny and several other very viable characters. He actually might beat Cage down the line, which is controversial but we'll see how that develops. But if it does develop that way, you heard it here first <3.

Goro definitely beats Mileena, Jason and Kenshi varying degress of 6-4.

I've had Goro and Liu Kang players I talk to claim that Goro wins 6-4. I'm not 100% sure, but have done well against Theo when we've played so we'll see how that goes down the line.

Ermac is definitely a possibility for a winning match up too since he's so risky and his space control isn't too daunting to navigate by any means. Goro isn't built to be a zoner so he's not too concerned about the counter zoning of soul ball.

Predator and Quan are bad match ups, but Goro abuses their weak wake up games extremely well so it offsets some of their advantages when he gets in close and puts them on their back. Still not favorites of mine though lol.

Kung Lao and Tanya are bad match ups more or less cause they do the chip/pressure game better, but they're still very doable.

Shinnok is pretty straightforward, but absolutely got a lot better post patch.

Kung Jin is a toss up right now. Prior to him getting nerfed I was pretty sold on it being a losing match up, but not so sure now.

That's all, I feel like he is at worst on par with Ferra/Torr and Jacqui now. People say good on paper, but for example, a poster made a list of things Jacqui has and Goro has nearly all of the same things aside from the fast back walk speed, but he has a really good armored launcher so it's just a different strength really.


There might be some more losing, even or winning, but I'm not well versed enough on Takeda, Erron and co to say.

 

[Slips]

Johnny doesn't have a 6 frame safe armoured reversal that leads to full combo.

Cassie also has much better anti-airs.

I think Cassie has better defensive armor whereas Johnny has better offensive armor. That doesn't mean hers is better.

Better AA? Like what?

 

[KIllaByte]

I think Cassie has better defensive armor whereas Johnny has better offensive armor. That doesn't mean hers is better.

Better AA? Like what?

Cassie's standing 1 actually works for anti-crossover and certain anti-airs, almost to the level of MK9 Johnny (slight exaggeration.)

If you people seriously don't see the absolute DIRT that Ruthless Ferra/Torr has...
He's the only character in this game with meterless blockstrings off of his B1 string into overhead Ferra toss, which randomly becomes +12. Ruthless's great damage is METERLESS, every time, he either always has breaker of can opt for dirty safe on block armored wakeups that are also hard to jump over, like ex charge, or hte unblockable armored command grab he has.
Both of his 50-50 normals are safe, and on top of that he can cancel into a safe 50-50 knockdown attempt using low or overhead ferra toss.... like, people, come on now. Down 3 is also a godlike anti-air, but literally only Biohazrd travels with the character. Props for being completely independent, but Ferra/TOrr's rise on this YOMI list is because YOMi knew next to nothing about the character until Biohazrd bodied Forever King at Rumble in the Tundra, and contested with FKJR's Tremor.
Ruthless also gets the 6 frame minus one on block D1, like, folks; let's get up to speed, piggy

 

[Mortal Komhat]

That's all, I feel like he is at worst on par with Ferra/Torr and Jacqui now. People say good on paper, but for example, a poster made a list of things Jacqui has and Goro has nearly all of the same things aside from the fast back walk speed, but he has a really good armored launcher so it's just a different strength really.

People really need to consider tap direction movement. Goro has some of the best, though Jacqui's movement options are fucking sick. If you thought Goro's tap walk was fast, Jacqui's is fucking nuts.

 

[Slips]

Cassie's standing 1 actually works for anti-crossover and certain anti-airs, almost to the level of MK9 Johnny (slight exaggeration.)

Ok. Still, Johnny has a better uppercut and his d4 low profiles most jump punches in the game.

I'm not saying Johnny is actually better, I just don't get why people cream over Cassie when Johnny's tools are super comparable.

Like a lot of characters, I feel she's just really good. I don't get the S tier hype.

 

[evolution07]

good to know i use characters from about every group, except jason lol. he's more for fun, really.

i've been learning cassie lately (she's really fun), along with quan. shinnok is good, just need to learn his pressure.

tanya, reptile, kitana and ermac are most of what i use. while i do know a thing or two about most of the cast, i feel as though i need to stop using new characters (even though i want to learn them all lol); it can feel overwhelming having to learn new stuff, while "forgetting" how to play all over again. =/

 

[dribirut]

I also think having 17 characters in one tier without having a way to see who is at the top or bottom of the tier is kinda dumb.

This times a 100

 

[DrFolmer]

Should we really base how good the character is based on how bad the player is?


I agree Cassie can punish better than Johnny. I forgot about that.

Hmmm I don't see Cassie doing that much more damage than Johnny. Johnny can get over 30% with a bar just like she can. Even if she does do a little more, Johnny makes up for it in guaranteed chip and pressure without the use of meter.

I stand by my argument that Cassie is over-hyped.

She has more than 30 % on some of her regular combos midscreen but nevermind...

The problem is you look at Cassie like she's a rushdown character - she's about the neutral and the 50/50's. Yes you can conclude Johnny has better block pressure, that's the intention of the character design.

Ok. Still, Johnny has a better uppercut and his d4 low profiles most jump punches in the game.

I'm not saying Johnny is actually better, I just don't get why people cream over Cassie when Johnny's tools are super comparable.

Like a lot of characters, I feel she's just really good. I don't get the S tier hype.

Dude... Johnny's d2 is fucking garbage man. If you have loads of succes with, somethings wrong, because it's absolute garbage. I mean it's fast, but the hitbox is so fucking bad. Most moves I can d2 punish playing as Jax wont work when I try with Johnny. Do you even play Johnny Cage man?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

She has more than 30 % on some of her regular combos midscreen but nevermind...

The problem is you look at Cassie like she's a rushdown character - she's about the neutral and the 50/50's. Yes you can conclude Johnny has better block pressure, that's the intention of the character design.

Dude... Johnny's d2 is fucking garbage man. If you have loads of succes with, somethings wrong, because it's absolute garbage. I mean it's fast, but the hitbox is so fucking bad. Most moves I can d2 punish playing as Jax wont work when I try with Johnny. Do you even play Johnny Cage man?

Johnny's d2 vertical hitbox is pretty decent to what I understand. But yeah good luck stopping jump ins.