Nerf/buffs and what's really needed

[TopTierHarley]

I can only really speak for Mileena, but:

-F3 shorter start up frames (2-3 would be just fine IMO).
-Roll as a low. (Common sense)
-Teleport Kick as an overhead. (Again, common sense)
-Fix being able to be thrown on fade invisibility (Ethereal).
-MAYBE slightly shorten startup frames (1-2) on regular fades (Ethereal).

Mileena is really coming along for all three variants in my opinion. Piercing and Ravenous are in decent standing (at present), and Ethereal is almost there as well. The variations aren't so much in need as the general character itself is for certain things. Mileena just needs to have some safer options. Tightening up her pokes would help.

I stopped when I saw low roll. (common sense)

 

[Wigy]

I stopped when I saw low roll. (common sense)

Yeah lol people have been suggesting this since MK9

If mileena's roll was a low she would hands down be best in the game.

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

I stopped when I saw low roll. (common sense)

Too OP? ;P

Seriously though--I don't know why they count it as a mid. It's silly--common sense says it should be a low hit.

 

[Wigy]

Too OP? ;P

Seriously though--I don't know why they count it as a mid. It's silly--common sense says it should be a low hit.

It looks like a low.

But this would mean that mileena has an 8 frame combo starting advancing mid, and an overhead roll with armour. As well as having about 3 overhead/low strings. Would be utterly broken you would be paralysed blocking high the whole game, it would literally be wait for her to fuck up pray she does the wrong roll.

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

It looks like a low.

But this would mean that mileena has an 8 frame combo starting advancing mid, and an overhead roll with armour. As well as having about 3 overhead/low strings. Would be utterly broken you would be paralysed blocking high the whole game, it would literally be wait for her to fuck up pray she does the wrong roll.

Indeed, and that's just gravy to me. Can't lie. ;P

But I do see your point, fair enough. It's irksome though because it SHOULD be a low--OP or not.

 

[cambros22]

Indeed, and that's just gravy to me. Can't lie. ;P

But I do see your point, fair enough. It's irksome though because it SHOULD be a low--OP or not.

She has enough mixups. Plus it doesn't really matter if the ball is a mid, it anti airs and whiff punishes in neutral. Its application is extensive. Like Wigy said, every situation ends in a guess if it's low. That is taking 50/50's to a whole new level.

 

[dotunderscore]

Would be utterly broken you would be paralysed blocking high the whole game, it would literally be wait for her to fuck up pray she does the wrong roll.

Sounds like the mirror! (it is pretty hilarious)

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

She has enough mixups. Plus it doesn't really matter if the ball is a mid, it anti airs and whiff punishes in neutral. Its application is extensive. Like Wigy said, every situation ends in a guess if it's low. That is taking 50/50's to a whole new level.

I would agree with this IF it wasn't easy to punish her already. Anyone that knows the Mileena match up will tell you how unsafe she is, and likewise, how easy she is to punish if you know the match. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I think roll should be low because it IS a low move--not because I want it to make her OP.

 

[cambros22]

I would agree with this IF it wasn't easy to punish her already. Anyone that knows the Mileena match up will tell you how unsafe she is, and likewise, how easy she is to punish if you know the match. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I think roll should be low because it IS a low move--not because I want it to make her OP.

I dont agree to disagree. I will however accept that this is your stance on the topic.
And whether a character is unsafe or easy to punish has nothing to do with why their tool set should be put out of balance for visual reasons.

 

[Blonde_Huntress]

And whether a character is unsafe or easy to punish has nothing to do with why their tool set should be put out of balance for visual reasons.

From my perspective, making what should be a low move into a mid hitting move puts it out of balance anyway because it doesn't make sense. If her roll was like, say, Kano's ball--I wouldn't think twice about it.

But she's on the ground. Hitting your feet. Your feet. Yup, that's definitely a mid hitting move....

It's silly.

 

[MsMiharo]

From my perspective, making what should be a low move into a mid hitting move puts it out of balance anyway because it doesn't make sense. If her roll was like, say, Kano's ball--I wouldn't think twice about it.

But she's on the ground. Hitting your feet. Your feet. Yup, that's definitely a mid hitting move....

It's silly.

To be fair her roll brutality even cuts off your legs from the knees down. It being a low would totally fuck with game balance though

 

[Xev]

Nerf interactable shortcuts. Buff block breakers.

For the love of god I agree, the interactable shortcut is really infuriating.

On the topic of Liu Kang flame fist you guys need to hit the lab, if they're doing windmill punch cancelled into flame buff you can do something about it, it's not even hard.

 

[cambros22]

To be fair her roll brutality even cuts off your legs from the knees down. It being a low would totally fuck with game balance though

Balance is rarely on the minds of people these days. How something looks seems to always be the most important.

 

[ando1184]

For the love of god I agree, the interactable shortcut is really infuriating.

On the topic of Liu Kang flame fist you guys need to hit the lab, if they're doing windmill punch cancelled into flame buff you can do something about it, it's not even hard.

Yes you can interrupt but only if he doesn't block. Liu kang can immediately block after activating flame fist, which makes a supposedly punishable move 100% safe, OR he can do a MB armored move to blow through your counter offence OR he can just counter your high or mid attempt. Given the current buff, he has more options and advantage than defending player. Thus suggesting the chip reduction gain from windmill punches is an honest request imo.

 

[Pakman]

How is that is only safe string lol

Sshh I was downplaying!

 

[Scoot Magee]

People still want 1 bar block breakers when most fbc stuff has already been nerfed? This does not need to be done.

Why should you be able to have a bar of stamina after breaking? So that you can run in and break immediately if you are punished for it? Or is it so that you can break a combo and immediately run in and pressure after the knockdown?

Also hellfire was already nerfed pretty hard and you want to nerf him again? Come on man seriously... The patch that snuk up on everyone just a few days ago was just released and people have already got a list of nerfs, buffs and universal game mechanic changes.

Let the game breath... We even have people that seem to get a lot of respect within our community constantly calling for changes like scrubs. Play the fucking game for what it is, figure out the ins and outs and let the development team decide what they want to do.

That's the end of my rant.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Also throw teching works. You can pretty much os poke and tech at the same time. You just can't be holding block and yoi have to know if they're going to throw you backwards or forwards.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Quan chi needs an extra hit of armour on sky drop

 

[ando1184]

People still want 1 bar block breakers when most fbc stuff has already been nerfed? This does not need to be done.

Why should you be able to have a bar of stamina after breaking? So that you can run in and break immediately if you are punished for it? Or is it so that you can break a combo and immediately run in and pressure after the knockdown?

Also hellfire was already nerfed pretty hard and you want to nerf him again? Come on man seriously... The patch that snuk up on everyone just a few days ago was just released and people have already got a list of nerfs, buffs and universal game mechanic changes.

Let the game breath... We even have people that seem to get a lot of respect within our community constantly calling for changes like scrubs. Play the fucking game for what it is, figure out the ins and outs and let the development team decide what they want to do.

That's the end of my rant.

1 bar block breakers because of characters like raiden, liu kang, shinnok, and now mournful kitana. Being one bar allows us to not die while have 25-30% life and only 1 bar because the defending player doesn't gain meter while they're holding on for dear life in these situations.

Either have one bar of stamina after breaking OR have the stamina regen meter regain faster. It's rediculous that after breaking you are as vulnerable as an ant under a magnifying glass. At least with a bar of stamina you can actually perform a combo if you land a counter offense.

 

[Xev]

Yes you can interrupt but only if he doesn't block. Liu kang can immediately block after activating flame fist, which makes a supposedly punishable move 100% safe, OR he can do a MB armored move to blow through your counter offence OR he can just counter your high or mid attempt. Given the current buff, he has more options and advantage than defending player. Thus suggesting the chip reduction gain from windmill punches is an honest request imo.

Even if he immediately blocks into flame fist from whirlwind is punishable, people aren't realizing this. I made a vid here to demonstrate. I had him do the string first and immediately block to show what the AI was doing.

I'm not 100% on the frame data since it's hard to find what it is for cancelled moves like that, but as a guess it's somewhere around 10-12 frames maybe? And as for the suggested nerf of its chip damage you can further mitigate some of it just by crouch blocking as well since some of the hits will whiff. Next train of thought will probably be, well I can just cancel whirlwind into armor instead! Go for it, you can block and punish the mb flying kicks pretty easily. MB db 2 you can either backdash it (with timing) or just jump over him since it's so slow, or even just armor it since its armor doesn't last that long. Can try doing mb bf2 since it's safe, but armor can beat it.

Options like I listed above already exist in the game against other characters. One example is Kotal Kahn War God, he can't really go safely into his specials except with 114. If he does so he causes gaps, but it's on the opponent to know of said gaps and to figure out how to beat them. Which I think is a good thing.

I'm very much against knee jerk nerfs, this hasn't even existed for a week and people already want adjustments on something that is punishable but people don't seem to realize how. Also, I don't even main Liu Kang. I just like knowing how to fight characters because I love this game.

 

[ryublaze]

Hey bud can you explain what you mean about the interactables thing?

what Wigy said. and also sometimes if you press 2 and then 1 or vise versa the game reads it as 1+2 and you get an interactable.

As for Block Breakers being 1 bar (and this is my opinion), they are completely useless unless its the final round and u happen to be getting chipped out while having 2 bars. It never made sense to me to have Block Breakers cost 2 bars in a 3 bar game when Injustice pushblock costed 1 bar in a 4 bar game. It wasn't even used that much in Injustice, and characters like Batman and Aquaman were still good. Meter is precious in MKX and I doubt it'll be abused or hurt characters without 50/50s THAT much. If it does, to balance things out I would buff those characters.

 

[ando1184]

Even if he immediately blocks into flame fist from whirlwind is punishable, people aren't realizing this. I made a vid here to demonstrate. I had him do the string first and immediately block to show what the AI was doing.

I'm not 100% on the frame data since it's hard to find what it is for cancelled moves like that, but as a guess it's somewhere around 10-12 frames maybe? And as for the suggested nerf of its chip damage you can further mitigate some of it just by crouch blocking as well since some of the hits will whiff. Next train of thought will probably be, well I can just cancel whirlwind into armor instead! Go for it, you can block and punish the mb flying kicks pretty easily. MB db 2 you can either backdash it (with timing) or just jump over him since it's so slow, or even just armor it since its armor doesn't last that long. Can try doing mb bf2 since it's safe, but armor can beat it.

Options like I listed above already exist in the game against other characters. One example is Kotal Kahn War God, he can't really go safely into his specials except with 114. If he does so he causes gaps, but it's on the opponent to know of said gaps and to figure out how to beat them. Which I think is a good thing.

I'm very much against knee jerk nerfs, this hasn't even existed for a week and people already want adjustments on something that is punishable but people don't seem to realize how. Also, I don't even main Liu Kang. I just like knowing how to fight characters because I love this game.

Everything you described is extremely situational and expresses that liu kang has other options to make it safe. Yes the opponent can do all of those things to get around it as well but the half a bar liu gets from windmill punches doesn't excuse itself in this regard. Hense, I'm only aiming at the meter gain property of the scenario, even if liu burns the bar with MB db2 or MB flying kick he only really used half a bar for an EX move. That's a why I suggested such a change. It's not a knee jerk nerf imo because of how useful/dependent having meter is in this game.

Edit: I updated OP with interractable shortcut and shinnok suggestion.

 

[aj1701]

- Remove/Nerf interractable shortcuts (interferes with certain characters strings/inputs)

Then you remove the ability of people using six button sticks to use interactables at all.

 

[ando1184]

Then you remove the ability of people using six button sticks to use interactables at all.

Maybe I should have said "fix" then because it shouldn't unintentionally happen during multi button strings

Edit: Done

 

[aj1701]

Besides, if the blockstring in Hellfire was legitimately unintentional, I'm sure it would've been "fixed" in an earlier patch.

That's not the case though; they only have limited time to do a patch. Their work is likely planned out for the next few weeks. So they'll do what they consider the highest priority fixes first. It could be that something else higher priority comes up next time, so this particular thing is pushed back yet again, and only now did they deem it important enough to fix considering all the other work they had to do.