Name your top 5 MKX Characters in order & List one hypothetical Nerf for each

[Scott The Scot]

But what does it matter if you're run canceling or not? I mean, yeah I guess run cancels require some stamina (in Cage's case it's not even that much), and a minimal amount of execution (if someone can't do f3~run cancel, then they're kinda hopeless), but that's about it. The result is what counts. You're still having access to a safe mid launcher that is super plus on block. And I'd argue that this isn't really the nature of run canceling for everyone (see: Pion, Scor).

So let's just say for arguments sake, that hat spin required run cancels, would it somehow be less good? I just don't see your point.

Pion, Scor - I lol'd

Anyway, you still didn't answer my question. Why is hat spin being safe huge?

 

[lilyunggrabbagjr]

If all these top characters get the nerfs you all are asking for I guarantee gm sub is going to come out of nowhere and start fucking people up even more

 

[AK XEN0M0RPH]

4. Cassie Cage Hollywood
212d1+2 string is -11

Reason: gives her a string finally entire cast can punish. Oh my god she now has a consequence (can make safe w ex flip )

This wouldnt give you what you want. A proper nerf would be b212d1+2 has a gap between last two hits.

 

[RyuuJin882]

1. Outlaw Erron Black
He's fair
2. HQT predator
He's fair
3. Kobu Tanya
Make it so every character can neutral duck ex tonfa on the way back after letting go of block.
4. Summoner Quan
Pigs recommendation sounds fair enough, but I'm OK with Quan as is now.
5. Tempest Lao
Make the jump 2 less free. Change the frames on orbiting hat so it's more minus on block.

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

1. Lao Tempest
8-9 second cool down on hat after using ex hat orbit

Reason: removes brain dead endless meter building/pressure/chip

Promotes better play

Agreed, the meter build is off the rails and the pressure redicoulus.
don't know if that much time would be required cuz I feel like the in game timer is somewhat slow.
So are we talking real time or in game?

 

[KidVanDal]

3:Quan chi Summoner
make low bat mid(get fucked)

3:Quan chi Summoner
make low bat mid(get fucked)

midget fucked

TF did I just read????

 

[Big Pampering]

I didn't say anything about 12124 specifically, I'm just saying Lao can just throw hat spin out and be safe after anything then hitconfirm into a combo. No risk whatsoever.

You cant throw it out after anything because there are a lot of strings where there will be a gap if you cancel them into hatspin and there are only a few strings that you want to use anyways. Asking for it to be unsafe is unreasonable, because other characters who either only have a low or only an overhead are also safe on their low or overhead. People need to stop looking at hatspin as a special and need to realise it acts as a second hit for f2 and b2.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

You cant throw it out after anything because there are a lot of strings where there will be a gap if you cancel them into hatspin and there are only a few strings that you want to use anyways. Asking for it to be unsafe is unreasonable, because other characters who either only have a low or only an overhead are also safe on their low or overhead. People need to stop looking at hatspin as a special and need to realise it acts as a second hit for f2 and b2.

it's a 2nd hit only for b2 and a 7th hit for 112124... f2 doesnt jail

 

[Big Pampering]

Pion, Scor - I lol'd

Anyway, you still didn't answer my question. Why is hat spin being safe huge?

Making hat spin punishable is like saying make cassies b12 punishable+ add a gap in between the first and second hit and then make the same character have his overhead punishable, when he doesnt have a low.

 

[Wigy]

the only reasonable nerf for lao would be to decrease his jump 2 range.

Making db1 in tempest -5? He can armour out of followups and backdash out slow ones still. But it gives people better options afterward.

Seem reasonable?

 

[Big Pampering]

Making db1 in tempest -5? He can armour out of followups and backdash out slow ones still. But it gives people better options afterward.

Seem reasonable?

there is no ex spin when he gets his hatspin blocked, there is a 4 sec cooldown.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Tempest:

-hat spin is now -5

- 44 string dmg reduced

Quan Chi:

-Overall dmg reduced

-MB rune less plus on block

This are the things that i can think of speaking of Lao and Quan

 

[Wigy]

im for both.

either buff AAs or adjust jump ins.

they can give less priority to jump ins so it's easier to s1 aa, if you space it correctly

Honestly. Some characters can easily antiair most jump ins, f1 on raiden and d2 on liu and jax for instance. Its just a few characters, kotal and lao being the main offenders are near impossible to antiair unless you are lao (ironic lol)

Interactable jumpin with kotals j1 is obscene basically a full screen safe divekick lol.

 

[Undeadjim]

1.Kung Lao - Adjust hitbox on J2 (There are still several other jumps I would adjust mainly the ones that reach so far that AA's can whiff yet there attack can hit such as Kotal and Sonya. Or jump attacks that have stupid vertical hitboxes such as Sub and Jax where trying to anti cross up requires perfect timing) Also why does he have a gap after B312 EX hat where only 6 frame reversals work, don't care to much but trust Lao to have a fake gap in his pressure.

2.Quan Chi - Remove the ability to do the pseudo unblock able in some way, I didn't mind getting hit by one part of Earthshaker back in the Injustice days because it was like 8% but Quans is harder to block and can reset for around 30%. You already have a restand where you can vortex me you do not need something as stupid as this.

3.Tanya - Delaying Rekka's should not change the frame data.

4. Liu Kang - They need to remove some utility such as making B12 RC not 0 but negative enough that he has to make a read on armor breaking and have some kind of consequence. Cut down his cancel advantage from strings. Or my personal favorite get rid of the low fireball in DF, if you want to be the pressure king of MKX why should you have the ability to zone out half the cast at the same time.

5. Tremor - Do something with uprock at the moment I can make pretty much anything +19, trade and combo or space control with it. I would say make it go away on hit rather than block however.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Honestly. Some characters can easily antiair most jump ins, f1 on raiden and d2 on liu and jax for instance. Its just a few characters, kotal and lao being the main offenders are near impossible to antiair unless you are lao (ironic lol)

Interactable jumpin with kotals j1 is obscene basically a full screen safe divekick lol.

Erron s1 ftw , also Lao's s1 has good AA proprieties

 

[Wigy]

there is no ex spin when he gets his hatspin blocked, there is a 4 sec cooldown.

Totally forgot about this. Ex teleport has armour? it means the tossing his combo starter of his great normals actually has some reprecautions lol. Spin beats out most decent mids after he can backdash and whiff punish jump back 2 etc. My point is he has a lot of options off a blocked combo starter, which isnt in keeping with the rest of the characters. Most combo starters on block unless you spend a bar you have to block and hope for the best.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

1.Kung Lao - Adjust hitbox on J2 (There are still several other jumps I would adjust mainly the ones that reach so far that AA's can whiff yet there attack can hit such as Kotal and Sonya. Or jump attacks that have stupid vertical hitboxes such as Sub and Jax where trying to anti cross up requires perfect timing) Also why does he have a gap after B312 EX hat where only 6 frame reversals work, don't care to much but trust Lao to have a fake gap in his pressure.

2.Quan Chi - Remove the ability to do the pseudo unblock able in some way, I didn't mind getting hit by one part of Earthshaker back in the Injustice days because it was like 8% but Quans is harder to block and can reset for around 30%. You already have a restand where you can vortex me you do not need something as stupid as this.

3.Tanya - Delaying Rekka's should not change the frame data.

4. Liu Kang - They need to remove some utility such as making B12 RC not 0 but negative enough that he has to make a read on armor breaking and have some kind of consequence. Cut down his cancel advantage from strings. Or my personal favorite get rid of the low fireball in DF, if you want to be the pressure king of MKX why should you have the ability to zone out half the cast at the same time.

5. Tremor - Do something with uprock at the moment I can make pretty much anything +19, trade and combo or space control with it. I would say make it go away on hit rather than block however.

You mean the gap in b321 or the gap in the special cancel? cause b321xxexhat can be easly armored by Kotals OH swrod wich is 17f start up

 

[Marinjuana]

5. Tremor - Do something with uprock at the moment I can make pretty much anything +19, trade and combo or space control with it. I would say make it go away on hit rather than block however.

Want to go into a little more detail here? If you predictably add up rock onto the end of strings you'll get punished.

What do you mean by go away on hit/block?

 

[Wigy]

In mk9 the JIP's were universal and had generally much shorter range which meant u had time to react and that they were closer making s1 on most characters a universal antiair.

If they do something to antiairs, reduce hitbox and Make hitboxes match hurtboxes! lao j2 goes half screen and is only tripguardable -not even properly by a lot of the cast. Which is just moronic considering how amazing his pressure is.

Kotals j1 is fucking stupid goes like 3/4 screen while lying outstretched and has about 1 characters length of invisible hitbox making it tricky to judge.

His anti zoning has been buffed over and over again he doesnt still need this braindead shit

 

[the.hamburglar]

1. Tempest Lao
Regular hat spin is now -10 from -3

Reason: he shouldn't get to cancel in to hat spin from anything, and be safe on block or hitconfirm into a combo.

2. Summon Quan Chi
Cannot attack when using the bat (Includes jumping)

Reason: People might actually use the bat for zoning, instead of hard-to-blockables.

3. Hollywood Cassie Cage
EX Flip is now -13 instead of -12

Reason: Now people can punish it with a 12 frame normal.

4. Hish-Qu-Ten Predator
Add 10 recovery frames to all laser attacks

Reason: It's way too hard to punish something that's like -8 or whatever, it's hard to input a reversal after it every time.

5. Kobu Jutsu Tanya
EX Tonfa Throw no longer jails on any character from any string/normal

Reason: Tonfa toss wouldn't be abused as a pressure/mixup/chip tool but rather it'd be used to win trades when in a zoning war.

thats kinda the reason the bat is there...

 

[Matix218]

How about you read my comments before you reply, K? Number 1, I already explained why just because the top tier in this game are not broken like Kabal or Cyrax doesn't mean they're not overpowered, but you either didn't read that or completely ignored it. And Number 2, I SAID block breakers should be made 1 bar IN ADDITION to adding 3% of a bar of meter gained for every attack a character blocks. This would balance Predator and other characters' abilities to gain meter quickly with their pressure by giving the opposing character a way of gaining meter as well. Every time Predator hits an opponent's block he gains 6% of a bar of meter, but with my suggestion the opponent who's blocking those same attacks would be gaining 3% of a bar of meter himself, which he could use to break or armor. You completely ignored this point of mine as well. This way pressure characters would still get the meter gain from applying pressure, but the other player would get some as well, so it would be fair. Pressure characters would gain meter on block too, but they won't be blocking nearly as much against non-pressure characters, so the change applies to them much less. The headache you're getting is a result of your own stupidity and stubbornness to keep badgering me about a nerf request that I didn't even make.

If block breakers are 1 bar pressure characters will suffer greatly. Essentially once they get in everyone will be able to just get them off for free if they have a single bar (which usually you will have). You WILL see tanya, cage, liu, etc fall down the tier list in a big way.

 

[Osagri]

I can't speak in frame data well enough to be really specific, but this would be my of it...

1. Tempest Lao. It's difficult to tone him down simply because of the way he's designed, but you could go with making Orbiting Hat less safe, and having EX Spin suck in the opponent on block to make it more punishable, AND make his jumping 2 less ridiculous, and he would STILL in all likelihood be top 5 material. But people would lose their fucking minds.

2. Kobu Tanya's pressure. Though i wouldnt mind seeing her get a boost of some sort as an overall character to compensate.

I seriously can't think of anything else that wouldnt result in my being executed. Theres plenty of dirt in this game that's absolutely absurd, ala DF Kang/A-List Cage's plus frames, Summoner Quan, or Jax just being fucking ridiculous in general, but it's been the meta for so long now/so much of it is pretty much built into the character's makeup that it would be fundamentally game changing to alter it now. At this point Id rather see them do as they did in IGAU and buff the bottom tier than take chances screwing up characters that are already cemented as great. I still dont understand how you can end up with characters as well built and diverse as Lao or Tremor or Cassie, but manage to fall so short with ones like Jason or Kenshi or Mileena. But it's not too late to fix it.

How is jax ridiculous?

 

[One Inch Punch]

quan chi : somehow remove the meter burn option select in the 50/50, so it will become a unsafe 50/50 like anyone else.

and for my main liu : meter burn flying kick +1 ou 0 on block and slightly less meter building on block, something like 20%.

 

[the.hamburglar]

All this beef on quan chi making that low bat a mid and not summoning the bat while in a trance kinda is pointless because the bat takes long enough to call in and then if you get hit it goes away like damage scaling is more understandable because if you make that low bat a mid might as well make cassie spec ops missiles mids because she does the same with pseudo unblockables, if its really as brain dead as you guys say then pressure him because a quan chi players has no wake up game and if they spam that unblockable once you get out of it pressure them because more than likely they dont know how to use it and if they are really good go to the lab and practice, not saying i can 100% block it but i have an can sometimes, usually the bat comes first then the overhead right away but with that said as i play quan chi summoner myself it makes way more sense to just scale his damage kinda like what happened to scorpion and i still play scorpion, basically damage scaling would be good for quan but thats just my opinion, not gonna talk about frames because i never understood much about them,

 

[smokey]

Top 5 in no order with a nerf thrown in;
Tempest KL - Decrease startup on hat spin so he doesnt get a true blockstring into it from everything. If theres a gap would be able to armour through, also shouldnt be able to get a hat up after knoickdown.
HQT Pred - Give him some fkin blockstun and make low gun like -8 or worse.
Cassie (general nerf) - make d3 slower so you cant poke after everything and flipkicks more blockstun
Tanya Kobu Jutsu - Make b1 a high OR make rekkas generally worse on block normally and up to like +4 or 5 if delayed (gap to armour tradeoff)
Summoner Quan - EX Rune +8 on block (slaughters other variations tho) OR bat scaling up add like 10f to the bat summon startup (no more trance>bat)

obviously these arent that thought out so dont shit yourselves.