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Match-up Discussion My Zatanna Match up chart (image)

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
What makes you think it's even for superman?
edit: I'm honestly curious, I don't have much exp in this MU
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
Im sure the matchup is not that 1 dimensional though...
You would think, but just because of straight laser zatanna cant zone whatsoever. It's nothing new that zatanna gets raped upclose by superman. normally, zatanna can counter zone by teleporting behind and punishing. well straight laser has damn near no recovery so he can punish teleport attempts it mistimed. even if teleports are timed correctly, zatanna doesn't get a punish. I played this MU thoroughly w @Rebelo pocket superman and we came to that conclusion. Straight laser rapes zatanna. Period.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
You would think, but just because of straight laser zatanna cant zone whatsoever. It's nothing new that zatanna gets raped upclose by superman. normally, zatanna can counter zone by teleporting behind and punishing. well straight laser has damn near no recovery so he can punish teleport attempts it mistimed. even if teleports are timed correctly, zatanna doesn't get a punish. I played this MU thoroughly w @Rebelo pocket superman and we came to that conclusion. Straight laser rapes zatanna. Period.
do you mean his heat vision (the ground angled one) or his heat zap?

Edit: you said no recover, I'll assume you meant heat zap
 

DinoPizzaria

Professional Twerking Choreographer
You would think, but just because of straight laser zatanna cant zone whatsoever. It's nothing new that zatanna gets raped upclose by superman. normally, zatanna can counter zone by teleporting behind and punishing. well straight laser has damn near no recovery so he can punish teleport attempts it mistimed. even if teleports are timed correctly, zatanna doesn't get a punish. I played this MU thoroughly w @Rebelo pocket superman and we came to that conclusion. Straight laser rapes zatanna. Period.
This is why when I play Superman, I choose a map that'll be in my favor like Ferris Aircraft. His spamming straight lasers on the left side can be punished by the swinging interactable then caught with puppet master and he can get punished on the right side by the rockets, knocking him down and giving you a chance to either get in close, trait up or MB fire kiss.
 

DinoPizzaria

Professional Twerking Choreographer
I think we're talking independent of stage select though (tools v tools etc.)
In that case, yeah, he's pretty hard to get around because of his straight laser but with a perfectly timed teleport, he can be punished for it. His mobility also plays a factor in it just like with Wonder Woman or any other character with an air dash.
 
I think we're talking independent of stage select though (tools v tools etc.)
Zoning game is in zatanna's favor.
Either she teleports and punishes, or anti airs with ring into combo.
Superman gets only damage from lasers.

F3 avoids f23 loop in corner.
Teleport helps evade his pressure. teleport can be baited as well obviously, so it's a mind game.
Superman Can't freely zone as he can, and I feel Zatanna can outzone him patiently.
Prior to his nerf, he was a problem due to his f2 and her walk speed, but now it's very doable.




I am also on the fence about KF being even with Zatanna.
 
You would think, but just because of straight laser zatanna cant zone whatsoever. It's nothing new that zatanna gets raped upclose by superman. normally, zatanna can counter zone by teleporting behind and punishing. well straight laser has damn near no recovery so he can punish teleport attempts it mistimed. even if teleports are timed correctly, zatanna doesn't get a punish. I played this MU thoroughly w @Rebelo pocket superman and we came to that conclusion. Straight laser rapes zatanna. Period.
If he's doing nothing but spamming straight lasers, duck, trance
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
If he's doing nothing but spamming straight lasers, duck, trance
that's fair, but I don't think a supes player worth his salt is just gonna sit there chucking heat zap when he knows you can tele at any time. interesting. What was everlast doing/trying to adjust to your zat?
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
Zatanna goes even or beats killer frost
Seriously doubt it. Me and @Rickyraws (a very competent KF player) have ran this MU several 100 matches. Trance on block gets punished fullscreen w iceberg. So rings become the only zoning option, regular ring on block fullscreen gets checked by iceberg. KF has to respect mb ring tho, but who doesnt? Slide and iceberg makes trait impossible in this match. basically, zatanna cant zone. however, she can counter zone w teleports and levitate at the highest point dodges daggers and iceberg.

Up close, slide is tough to deal with, especially with zats short range normals.

I'd go into more detail but im kinda busy. Maybe ricky can help evaluate more, again. lol
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Seriously doubt it. Me and @Rickyraws (a very competent KF player) have ran this MU several 100 matches. Trance on block gets punished fullscreen w iceberg. So rings become the only zoning option, regular ring on block fullscreen gets checked by iceberg. KF has to respect mb ring tho, but who doesnt? Slide and iceberg makes trait impossible in this match. basically, zatanna cant zone. however, she can counter zone w teleports and levitate at the highest point dodges daggers and iceberg.

Up close, slide is tough to deal with, especially with zats short range normals.

I'd go into more detail but im kinda busy. Maybe ricky can help evaluate more, again. lol
While I wouldn't go so far as to say this is an extremely bad MU for Zatanna, I agree, it seems against Frost, there's a lot you have to get past before you can even get anything started. I will say that Zatanna's zoning, her levitate and her jump attack...I think it's her jump 3? Where she does the splits in the air?


Yeah those are very good tools against Frost. Other than that, though if it ain't Frost's favor, it's definitely only 5-5 if you can effectively get past the Frostology. I'd like to hear from other Zatannas as I don't even think I've played more than what...2 3? who knew what they were doing. Other than d1d1d1d1d1 home button (Y) Are you sure you wish to go to the dashboard? This will end your current session. (A) The games session is no longer available.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
First off, levitate is a HUGE problem in this match. It complete shuts frost down. If we throw a dagger, she can teleport. The only time we can actually punish the levitate is if she right above us for an AA. Other than that, levitate/tele shenanigans are a huge pain.

Secondly, the zoning. Both players are good at zoning each other out, but idk man, I have trouble against a good zoning zatanna(Mr mileena). Yes, the rings start up in 30+ frames which means we can spike it, but we still trade and zatanna wins because the second hit of spike won't even come out. She also has the ability to control the zoning, which frost doesn't. Jumping is out of the question because she can just throw the ring up, hit us, and convert into trance for the reset and mixup. Her pseudo frame trap with full screen ring into trance on block is annoying too, but luckily frost can punish that. MB rings are a nuisance too. Yes frost can throw the zoning off with spike and whatnot but a well timed tele, especially a MB one can really hurt frost.


Zatanna's trait is also not as useless as you may think in this match. She can set you up for it very well and there isn't much frost can do about it once zatanna gets going, especially upclose with that armored lightning cage.


Frost does win upclose tho, so that's not really a problem.


I could just be emo. I play this MU with Mr.mil ALOT and I used to do very well against him, but now its really really hard to keep up. He is the better player but I also feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble in a "winnable" MU. No other zatanna gives me trouble but his.



(Yes I copied and pasted this lol. Too lazy to rewrite it)
 

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
You would think, but just because of straight laser zatanna cant zone whatsoever. It's nothing new that zatanna gets raped upclose by superman. normally, zatanna can counter zone by teleporting behind and punishing. well straight laser has damn near no recovery so he can punish teleport attempts it mistimed. even if teleports are timed correctly, zatanna doesn't get a punish. I played this MU thoroughly w @Rebelo pocket superman and we came to that conclusion. Straight laser rapes zatanna. Period.
You're forgetting that straight laser has a huge startup window where you can puppet master him before he laser comes out.

F3 avoids f23 loop in corner.
Not only that, but if Supes does f23 breath pressure frame perfect in the corner, she can actually duck under the next f2 and whiff punish (I block high low high to make this scenario happen). This forces Supes to move forward a few frames before using the next f2 enabling her the neutral jump it. So yeah, Zatanna keeps Supes more honest than most characters. Of course Supes can use f3 instead of another f2 to switch things up.

I've played this MU quite a bit post patch, and it feels pretty even to me. Supes has to go in and will just get wrecked if he's just trying to zone.