Discussion My tier list

[Indecisive]

Finally someone put jax high. Hes a very good character and i think he only has 2-3 bad MU's. His biggest weakness is he has shit meterless mid screen damage in everything besides Heavy Weapons. But as a whole jax has a lot of options

 

[STRYKIE]

I know she's solid, but what matchups is she favorable over piercing?

Anyone with reliable mid-armor stuffing utility and/or if she needs more utility to retreat. The sai buffs honestly probably mean more to Ethereal than the other variations. I can't say for certain which specific matchups that entails in as I'm not a Mileena main but I see some uses.

But the point is that Skylight was trying to mention that he plays Ethereal as if it's some kind of badge of honesty. Liu Kang arguably doesn't need Flame Fist when Dragon's Fire exists and Quan Chi arguably doesn't need Sorcerer but that doesn't mean they don't have their share of messed up shit lol.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Anyone with reliable mid-armor stuffing utility and/or if she needs more utility to retreat. The sai buffs honestly probably mean more to Ethereal than the other variations. I can't say for certain which specific matchups that entails in as I'm not a Mileena main but I see some uses.

But the point is that Skylight was trying to mention that he plays Ethereal as if it's some kind of badge of honesty. Liu Kang arguably doesn't need Flame Fist when Dragon's Fire exists and Quan Chi arguably doesn't need Sorcerer but that doesn't mean they don't have their share of messed up shit lol.

She's good yeah. Her mobility is really tough to keep up with sometimes. I'm sure she has applications, but I'm also not a Mileena player.

 

[Skylight1]

Anyone with reliable mid-armor stuffing utility and/or if she needs more utility to retreat. The sai buffs honestly probably mean more to Ethereal than the other variations. I can't say for certain which specific matchups that entails in as I'm not a Mileena main but I see some uses.

But the point is that Skylight was trying to mention that he plays Ethereal as if it's some kind of badge of honesty. Liu Kang arguably doesn't need Flame Fist when Dragon's Fire exists and Quan Chi arguably doesn't need Sorcerer but that doesn't mean they don't have their share of messed up shit lol.

Actually no that wasn't my point. I just randomly added the fact that I played low tier variations (Necromancer and MOS). Nowhere in any of my posts did I ever state I should be rewarded with some facetious badge of honesty. I never once said that and really don't appreciate words being placed in my mouth...

 

[Emperor Eevee]

Bruh, I don't even play this game anymore and I know this is wrong.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

King isn't reacting to it, you are being read.

Whenever he specifically said at MWC "yeah, Slayer hates playing against me now that I can react to it" lol I wouldn't just say that

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Does Mileena has a safe special move that does 3.5% chip on block and can be done off the oh/low without even hit confirming? That makes up for the "not very high" combo damage of Kung Jin. And Jin can spend a bar to do 35% midscreen, Mileena cannot spend bars to improve her midscreen damage in most situations. You should compare characters as a whole and put them in matchups

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Whenever he specifically said at MWC "yeah, Slayer hates playing against me now that I can react to it" lol I wouldn't just say that

King also said he could react to shinnok's overhead, and got hit 9/10. Also i think slayer just beat him in tournament with jin lol.

 

[RM AtK!]

You're right, plus that! However chart/win ratio is not everything. Opinion/diagnose should be analyzed looking at the overall character capabilities. For example, Skarlet never been very high in tournaments but she was a TOP tier character 100%.

didnt my boi Scar get 3rd at FR

 

[haketh]

Raiden not in bottom 10 & around the mid tier

This alone makes this a good list

 

[RM AtK!]

cR WoundCowboy said: ↑
He isn't top 10. What most people don't realize is that he does not get a guaranteed mixup after hell sparks, the only thing guaranteed option is the low. If he does ANYTHING else, the opponent can backdash or armor to blow him up. He spends a bar on hell sparks to put himself at risk. Shinnok also has a ton of trouble safely building meter except in boneshaper where his footises are not as strong because he loses his F2 string. Most people do not play this match correctly.

still one of my favorite quotes.. it's a risk to be + gais

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

cR WoundCowboy said: ↑
He isn't top 10. What most people don't realize is that he does not get a guaranteed mixup after hell sparks, the only thing guaranteed option is the low. If he does ANYTHING else, the opponent can backdash or armor to blow him up. He spends a bar on hell sparks to put himself at risk. Shinnok also has a ton of trouble safely building meter except in boneshaper where his footises are not as strong because he loses his F2 string. Most people do not play this match correctly.

still one of my favorite quotes.. it's a risk to be + gais

No, what you aren't seeing is that he HAS to mb them or he is majorly punishable.

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

KENSHI OP -_____-

 

[KingHippo]

Fast multi hitting armor, some of the best meterless damage in the game, great walk speed, a 5 frame jump in, the fans give her quite a bit of neutral control vs quite a bit of characters.

None of that matters right, because no 50/50 bro. If Kitana had a 100% correct match up chart, it would definitely not reflect a D tier character lmao. I'm sure we all know that, so why is she being placed in D tier?

You're not saying anything or constructing an argument, just throwing tools to the wind. I could do the same with Goro: fast pokes, high chip damage, safe armored launcher and a +10 on block armor poke, how could he not be top ten!?

I'm not saying have a strictly unreactable overhead and low mixup is key to being good, but you have to have something pretty darn good to make up for it, and Kitana seems to lack it hard. She does damage, but so does pretty much everyone with a few exceptions. The ways to get that damage inflicted is where her flaws appear to line up, and you can see most Kitana matches going down to the meta of throwing fans and doing nothing until it becomes apparent that her grounded offense is horrendous and consists of slow moves that are at least now thankfully safe on block, but don't leave her in good positions on block and leave her up close where she blows.

Air fans are not MK9 air fans. They are worse on whiff, far far worse on block, and now serve as her only sort of check on grounded opponents rather than an additional option. In a world where everyone thinks Goro and Leatherface are the dirt worst, how is Kitana not in this company? They too have good enough tools on paper and just kind of suck in comparison.

Granted, MKX low tiers are in a far better spot than MK9 low tiers. They can actually have good MU charts or relatively decent, but someone has to be low tier, and I do not see why she would not end up very low with the likes of Goro and Jason.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

but you have to have something pretty darn good to make up for it, and Kitana seems to lack it hard.

So you don't know much about Kitana and just share your thoughts about her?

Air fans are not MK9 air fans. They are worse on whiff, far far worse on block, and now serve as her only sort of check on grounded opponents rather than an additional option.

Fan has to versions, air fan is the fastest projectile in the game and ground fan has one of the best recovery in the game. She mixes them up and forces everyone to play her game before they get in. There are few exceptions (broken top tiers like Alien and Mileena, HQT who beats her very badly) don't need to respect her fans much.

Granted, MKX low tiers are in a far better spot than MK9 low tiers. They can actually have good MU charts or relatively decent, but someone has to be low tier, and I do not see why she would not end up very low with the likes of Goro and Jason.

Her matchup chart looks good, she still manages to beat top tier Sonya. She's mid tier

 

[KingHippo]

Fan has to versions, air fan is the fastest projectile in the game and ground fan has one of the best recovery in the game. She mixes them up and forces everyone to play her game before they get in. There are few exceptions (broken top tiers like Alien and Mileena, HQT who beats her very badly) don't need to respect her fans much.

How and why are you playing her game? This is not MK9 with dash blocking; you can probably block an air fan and gain significant ground with running or even just ducking one. Cyber Kano has a far better answer to jump and an even better fireball and everyone thinks he's actively bad. How is Kitana not in the same conversation? Damage? Seems like BS

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

didnt my boi Scar get 3rd at FR

Scar was/is one the best Skarlet operators. Brought Skarlet to the top, but she was never dominate around in Tournaments. But as far as her tools go, she was a beast. So even though she did not won much, she was still considered a A+ or so.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Sarcasm Pig, Sarcasm...

That wasn't even optimized. He can land the vortex off that for 59% plus 9-17% chip barring meter availability.



But what do I know. Go TYM.

BRUH

I could've done mimicry after the air grab and chipped him for an easy 12%. I could have spent one bar and hit him with 55% followed by some janky IA pressure. But alas, if ya wanna drop jaws ya gotta pump out that big damage and post it on Twitter for some swag.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Here's what I know about Imposter, these are the negative points:

1) Shinnok has excellent normals. His strings fucking suck. Safest string is -4 and it starts with a 15f high.

2) I have to spend a bar to be safe on 90% of the things I do which makes him insanely meter dependent which I'll get into in a sec.

3) My neutral sucks. There I said it. Shinnok's neutral isn't that good I'm sorry. When I'm not right in your face the only thing I'm gonna be doing is risking an IA which should be punished 90% of the time by someone who knows what they're doing, chuck Hell Sparks which I can't even do unless I have a bar or else I'm gonna get destroyed, run in and throw Hell Sparks, throw out f22 which I have to make safe with a bar, or run in with a mix-up with I will either land, make safe with a bar, or get punished for. I can try and space people out, but people have to be pretty damn close for me to hit them with f4 and most people have strings I don't want to try to contest.

"But Calf, you can whiff punish with Hell Sparks!"

Risky af unless I have a bar, and sometimes even if I have a bar it's still risky af. I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH. If I have just ONE BAR of meter, Shinnok's neutral gets SIGNIFICANTLY better UNLESS the other person has a guaranteed way to punish MB Hell Sparks. Not everyone does.

4) I NEED METER TO PLAY. That's the big part people don't totally get. If I don't have meter, I don't get to play MKX, the game I paid for. It's a rare occasion for Shinnok not to have meter but it does happen and when it happens I lose. Some characters I can loop without meter but I have to commit to it if I want to do that and it's usually a big ol risk. Some characters I can just use the move for chip damage. You know what those are called? Winning MU's. The main point here is that Shinnok needs meter to make himself safe/confirm off of Hell Sparks which is is main footsie tool. If he doesn't have it in Imposter you have to play a little yolo.

5) Aside from his 6f d1, it's hard for him to escape pressure. The armoured shoulder is sort of a shitty wake-up and I need meter for most things so I really don't wanna use it getting you off me for like 13%


Here are Imposter's pros:

1) MY GOD DAMN VORTEX IS LIT. Even if I loop you once I'm probably gonna hit you for 50% or more because of his damage. I have a super fast low, a slowish OH, jailing air normals, a teleport that makes it harder to guess what I'll do, a free af 16% grab, or I could just chip you out. OR I could even whiff the move and keep it going in some cases. Some characters he can loop without meter, some he can destroy in like 2 reps. it's good fun.

2) I use meter for 90% of the things that I do, but I also build it stupid quick. I have jailing set-ups that fill my bar up as if I just drank a potion. People can argue, " Oh but he has to get in or commit to something or what have you" but honestly I feel like people forget one small thing....

We're playing a thinking opponent.

We're playing someone that is scared to death to get touched. We're playing someone that knows we have so much jailing shit now and they know we have a 7f low we could hit them with and they're terrified. We can get a way with some pretty nutty stuff as far as building meter goes.

3) His run is bonkers, the amount of times I glide across the floor and clip someone with an f4 is shocking.

4) His teleport buff opened the door to some really disgusting shit. Added mix-ups, chip damage, more mind games, etc.

5) His normals are great. 7f d2 AA, 6f d1, 11f d4 that jails into Hell Sparks, some +2 stuff, etc.

6) some nutty moves he can steal. RIP Cassie and Ferra/Torr

7) Damage is great after a buff. Rounds can be over after 1 touch - his comeback factor is insane.

I'm sure I'm missing some, and I know if differs when you look at Bone Shaper, but from my experience there's no fucking way Shinnok is C tier. Gotta be A+. Just because he can't run in and instantly do stupid shit like the S tier gods of this game doesn't mean he's lacking in dirt.

@Pig Of The Hut @thlityoursloat @Skylight1 @D. R. @cR WoundCowboy @Tweedy

 

[Skedar70]

So your only explanation for why Unstoppable is lower than A, is that he gets beat out by zoning and range?

As a War God player I understand how not having a projectile can give up some neutral control, but no. No. It's not that big of a deal. You land a hit, do a DD3 set up, and they have to guess without the ability to make you guess if they're going to armor or not.

Can we talk about his command grabs that have insanely low recovery? His low option that's relatively safe? His big leg that's +9 on block, an overhead, and not easy to react to?

It's as if people just ignore the good stuff that the character had, when they're bad. It's the reverse Alien treatment. Okay, Jason had broke command grab recovery when he was bad? It doesn't count then, because he was bad. Now that he's good, that doesn't matter. Lets just examine DD3 in a box. Nothing else matters. Zoning is so oppressive on MKX when it helps my argument.

The thought of Unstoppable being D tier, is truly the most ridiculous thing I've seen on this site to date. I'd say it's fact that this character isn't D tier lol. How would you feel if I put another A tier character in D tier? Wouldn't you feel the same?

Um Jax is D tier guys he gets zoned and his walk speed is questionable. Plus "he's Jax guys cmon".

Ohh and thats not it. People forget that Unstoppable Jason has another buff DD4 for zoning situations. Ok you are getting zoned block or duck a projectile then activate heal buff and slowly walk towards your opponent while getting life and building meter. I have won zoning matches just by getting the life lead and healing and forcing my opponent come in on Jason. Also, he has EX bf3 which can easily catch an opponent zoning on you since it is fast, forward advancing, armored and on hit leaves you at perfect range. You can do it on reaction to a projectile since its soo fast and covers a lot of ground. He also comes back to life and the more meter he has the more life he gains which gives him good comeback potential and makes him really hard to kill. People are sleeping on Jason cause he doesn't have good representation in tourneys aside from whiteboy. However disagrees hasn't played a good Jason.

 

[D. R.]

snip

I could not have said it better myself. Shinnok is legit balanced with his pros and cons. If you can't deal with the character then idk what to tell you except learn to block and maybe "git gud?"


... Also, iATele~NJP is +7. GL hitting that 100% though.

 

[RM AtK!]

Scar was/is one the best Skarlet operators. Brought Skarlet to the top, but she was never dominate around in Tournaments. But as far as her tools go, she was a beast. So even though she did not won much, she was still considered a A+ or so.

i thiink she was around #10 ish imo

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Also, I actually don't think Mileena is Top 5. Top 10 sure, but not the very top.

Lmao

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Ferra/Torr is too high.

D-tier pls

Stop

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I know everyone says their main should be lower on a tier list, but I'm not sure I agree with Sonya being top 5. But I'm not very good and I never use Demo so maybe... I would think more people would play her if that was the case though.

That logic is absolutely awful. Allow me to persuade you to get off that logic or I can never help you lol. Summoner Quan was broken. Broken. 1 person used him competitively and online scrubs used him. I see more people using A-List and I fee like I have more of a chance against him than I did pre-patch summoner. Demo. Is. Stupid.