My last attempt at an accurate community tier list.

[Tom Brady]

i dont care who beat who with jade, thats the player doing it a lot more then the character.

 

[Lloyd Banks]

Tom Brady

I know you say no character is bad. But i still think this is ignorance making Jade the absolute worst character.
She is not the worst character. A player from Montreal recently decided to main her, and I have never seen anyone play jade like the way he does.He was able to beat take2chance in jade dittos. I dont know if chance is the best jade or not, but he has mained her for a long time now and does not have a developed jade like montreal does. He was able to beat out a cage player at toryuken using Jade. How did he do this? He used her really good footsies game and used armor at the right times to beat out cages f3 and punish him.

Not only does LolingOctopus ( the jade player i speak of) do high damage combos, but after 1 or 2 combos, jade is putting you in the corner and she has some good corner pressure. He also has 40% combos.

Tom, can you please explain why you have her so low? If she is the worst, she has the worst tools then correct? yet loling was able to use the proper tools the character has to beat cage of all characters. I know Shady uses kabal and i know he had casuals with loling, I dont know what happened but i would like shady to speak about lolings jade.

I am in no way trying to flame/troll/blow up/call out anyone, I really want to know why people think she is bad. In my opinion, she is the new mileena.

to clarify, just because her name is listed last doesn't mean she's last according to this list. It means that all of the characters under C tier are interchangeable with one another. Its saying that she's equal to Sheeva, Scorpion, Noob, etc, not below them.

 

[Lloyd Banks]

i dont care who beat who with jade, thats the player doing it a lot more then the character.

Yeah but what tools is she lacking in comparison to other characters in the mid ranges? And what makes her as limited as the characters that she's grouped with?

 

[DanCock]

the majority in A+ tier and kabal are what holds sindel back. its sindel death row tier lol. (not all, the majority)
A+:
Kitana, Sektor, Cage, Shang Tsung, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Raiden, Reptile, Mileena, Ermac

 

[zaf]

Tom Brady

Ok i understand that you do not care who beat who. And i agree that it is the player not that character. So i will remove that from my thoughts and posts. sorry

I also forgot that characters in a group are not in a particular order, sorry.
Also, if we ignore the player vs player and focus on jades tools, why is she so low.

Tools I see jade has, just from playing against jade a lot now:
( i know i am missing some)

She has armored moves.
She does have high damage combos. They just needed to be discovered.
1 or 2 combos depending on stage positioning, and you are in the corner.
good corner pressure
Pseudo rune trap with blockstrings into ex boomerang.
very good sweep. Her sweep can replace her d4 as it not only lowers her hitbox but it moves her forward and grants a knockdown
glow - for use against projectile characters
her standing 4 ( i believe this is the move) has great reach and whiff punishes pokes.
very good mileena esque d3
fast advancing specials.
shadow kick to make every block string safe
12 block string - works well on large hitbox characters.


with all of these tools that i alone can see from just playing jade and not maining her
how can she be so low? how does mileena have more tools then this?

 

[XBlades]

i dont care who beat who with jade, thats the player doing it a lot more then the character.

A majority of arguments can be disputed in this statement. To clarify, this is character tier list. Not a player tier list. I would like to add on
Lloyd Banks statement
kang has almost every tool accessible as well I do not see your point. Are you talking about flaws bcuz my characters main flaw would be a wake up game. I am sure jade has some flaws as well..
from this list... this just tells me the consistency of these characters winning, the execution, and overall match ups are summed up into categories which makes this pretty accurate list....

 

[Tom Brady]

i have beaten kabals, KL's, Raiden's, etc etc..

does this now mean "how can sub-zero be so low"? NO.. no matter who i beat using whatever top character they use, sub does not change. it doesnt mean sub is better, it just means that i superseded the MU that one set. a tier list does not mean that a player can not supersede their characters placement and bad MU, sure they can, but doing so doesnt change the MU or the tier.

 

[zaf]

No, i completely agree with you tom. But I would just like you to tell me why Jade is so low.
I think she was very unexplored and that a lot of her match ups might be even or in her favor, just that there was no one to be doing this. Now that a player has been doing this and has been showing me what Jade can do, i think she is mid tier or maybe higher.

Lets not forget after combos, she can stand you up to eliminated your wake up game.

 

[Lloyd Banks]

A majority of arguments can be disputed in this statement. To clarify, this is character tier list. Not a player tier list. I would like to add on
Lloyd Banks statement
kang has almost every tool accessible as well I do not see your point. Are you talking about flaws bcuz my characters main flaw would be a wake up game. I am sure jade has some flaws as well..
from this list... this just tells me the consistency of these characters...

Kang does not have every tool though! he doesn't have a 6 frame move, or safe armor (jade does), two things which are greatly beneficial in top play today. Granted, this discussion isn't about kang, who is unquestionably solid.

Jade obviously has weaknesses, but I was inquiring as to why these weaknesses overcome her strengths and make her in the same group as kano. When you look at this character on paper, she seems rock solid, I feel like she's ranked low because no one plays her and it seems like there's a negative stigma attached to her name ever since she was declared the worst in the game quite some time ago. The other characters in C tier have glaring flaws, where are Jades game crippling weaknesses?

 

[zaf]

Tom Brady
yes i would also really like to know what are jades flaws that are placing her where she is

 

[Tom Brady]

Kang does not have every tool though! he doesn't have a 6 frame move, or safe armor (jade does), two things which are greatly beneficial in top play today. Granted, this discussion isn't about kang, who is unquestionably solid.

for jade.. safe on block doesnt always mean safe. ex overhead staff can be beat by a cross over jump in punch into full combo. ex shadow kick can be neutral crouched and full combo punished.

this jade movement stops here.. let me tell you where its gonna go.. an uproar of "but why is jade.." then finally after a few majors vs the best players using the best characters the jade players will go back to the 9999999 please buff jade threads. so, rather then move her up now then move her right back down in a few months, lets just keep her right where she is.. where she belongs.

FISH!

 

[XBlades]

Kang does not have every tool though! he doesn't have a 6 frame move, or safe armor (jade does), two things which are greatly beneficial in top play today. Granted, this discussion isn't about kang, who is unquestionably solid.

Jade obviously has weaknesses, but I was inquiring as to why these weaknesses overcome her strengths and make her in the same group as kano. When you look at this character on paper, she seems rock solid, I feel like she's ranked low because no one plays her and it seems like there's a negative stigma attached to her name ever since she was declared the worst in the game quite some time ago. The other characters in C tier have glaring flaws, where are Jades game crippling weaknesses?

I do agree with you, that not many people play jade... she can be a real bich... but as it goes to show...it seems like most of the characters that are listed are defined by results in tournaments, the execution, match up settings, and technicality.

Question Tom Brady, Do you think that the top 3 players of this country should make a tier list of there own and be compared to justify a definite agreement for 1 supreme list for a specific time period?

But anyway, Props man! you did good!

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I still don't think sub zero is that low.

EDIT: When you've got one of the best specials in the game that can pretty much prevent rushdown unlike any other character. There's no way you are in B tier or an unfish... whatever the fuck that is.

 

[zaf]

Tom Brady

I do not think these two flaws you mentioned overshadow the tools I have posted.

Yes ex staff overhead and regular staff overhead can be beat out even as she starts up the animation. Most standing 1's do beat this out. I agree with the cross over as well, this will beat it out. But what if Jade players just do not use this move. It is not necessary to be a part of her game.

Sub zero has a bad move. It is the ic puddle, but what if you just do not use this. Does that make it take away from his game? Same can be said for ermacs levitate.

As for shadow kick. EX shadow kick can not be ducked, it will hit you and it does travel full screen giving her an instant in.
Jade can mix up in between her block strings, on either 2nd or 3rd hits of them, when to cancel into the shadow kick making it much harder for you to let go off block during her strings and duck then punish. If a jade player mixes up when she does the shadow kick, then I would say Yes it does make it more safe then trouble for her.

These are only 2 reasons you have given and I have given a plethora of reasons why you should not over look her.

No one has played jade the way she has to be played until now. LolingOctopus he has found tools and makes use of her tools.
She was unexplored.

Im not trying to be a dick, i want real discussion and I want this fad to change where people think she is utter garbage when she is not. You just sound like the jade players as well down playing her. Where as loling does not down play jade at all, or even ask for buffs. He just took the time to explore the character.

I have given you concrete reasons, why I believe she has to be higher. You have given me two reasons why you think she is so low and those two reasons are IMO, ignorant reasons. I feel that if you actually knew the character better you would not be using those two reasons for your counter argument.

 

[Lloyd Banks]

for jade.. safe on block doesnt always mean safe. ex overhead staff can be beat by a cross over jump in punch into full combo. ex shadow kick can be neutral crouched and full combo punished.

this jade movement stops here.. let me tell you where its gonna go.. an uproar of "but why is jade.." then finally after a few majors vs the best players using the best characters the jade players will go back to the 9999999 please buff jade threads. so, rather then move her up now then move her right back down in a few months, lets just keep her right where she is.. where she belongs.

FISH!

Dude, you aren't really demonstrating why she's next to kano, sheeva, noob, etc You mentioned two specials that can be punished (ex staff over head at max range can't be crossed up either) Also, the kick functions similarly to Nightwolf's shoulder, but would you call that a bad move? Jax's dash punch can be blow up by a ducking opponent, TONS of moves get blown up by ducking opponents, does that make them bad? It seriously looks like you just decided to throw her in there "just cause". I know you're one to love high level discussion about the game, but in your last responses you've provided little to no reasoning of your placement of Jade. (a character whom you undoubtedly really care about)

UsedForGlue What do you think about Jade?

 

[GambitTheFirst]

Tom Brady

I have given you concrete reasons, why I believe she has to be higher. You have given me two reasons why you think she is so low and those two reasons are IMO, ignorant reasons. I feel that if you actually knew the character better you would not be using those two reasons for your counter argument.

I think you're missing the point of this tier list. I personally think that Jade and Baraka are at least as good as Nightwolf and Stryker, but that's just a minor disagreement as there will always be disagreements with tier placings. But the fact is all the characters around the lower ranks just aren't as good as the other half of the cast. As said, they aren't bad, Jade definitely isn't bad, but Tom makes a good point that there's no point in moving her up unless something really game changing is discovered (unlikely). Also being in the same tier doesn't mean she is as bad or worse than the other characters in that tier (sorry Sheeva, I still have a soft spot for you, honest!), it's just that is the general rank in which she places.

Tier lists are bound to change from time to time (has a Super Turbo tier list even been finalised yet?) so we may see someone really pull out all the stops with Jade and her placement may change. But as for now, this is the general placement where she is and it makes sense to me (and I've actually used the character more than any other character in this game), even if personally think her and Baraka could arguably be bumped up to the 2nd lowest tier.

 

[zaf]

There is no point for me to be missing. I understand the point of this fully.
Yes Jade is currently placed low, but thats because I feel she is unexplored.
I always felt she was low, but recently after seeing what she can do, my mind has changed.

She doesn't need anything game changing. She just needed to be played properly. Loling uses jade properly IMO.
Once people start to watch him play they will change their mind. I think she needs to be in a higher placed tier then where she is.

 

[bipolar_shango]

FISH PLS. I literally died laughing at this....Jade's a classy fish.

I agree overall and you said pretty much what I was saying previously, the bottom tier in this game isn't useless...they're decent, but they're in a game with a lot of shenanigans that make decent look trashy.

I really like the position you put stryker in, i don't think he's terrible, but I don't think he's super good either.

Also, thank you for blowing up Mileena players lol.

Jade is a Classy "goldfish"

 

[Purple Haze]

S+:
Kabal

S:
Kenshi, Sonya, Smoke, JAX, Freddy

A+:
Kitana, Sektor, Cage, Shang Tsung, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Raiden, Reptile, Mileena, Ermac

A-:
Quan Chi

A:
Liu Kang, Rain, Skarlet

B:
Sub-Zero, CSZ, Nightwolf, Sindel, Stryker

C:
Kano, Noob Saibot, Scorpion, Sheeva, Baraka, Jade

Your best appempt yet.

 

[THTB]

Hey I never said Reptile was bad lol. I said possibly top 10, only thing possibly holding him back is whether or not his numbers hold up. There's only 3 characters I think Reptile has problems with, Kenshi being one of them, but not even Sonya is that bad.

I think he's just outside top 10 if he's not in it.

 

[GambitTheFirst]

There is no point for me to be missing. I understand the point of this fully.
Yes Jade is currently placed low, but thats because I feel she is unexplored.
I always felt she was low, but recently after seeing what she can do, my mind has changed.

She doesn't need anything game changing. She just needed to be played properly. Loling uses jade properly IMO.
Once people start to watch him play they will change their mind. I think she needs to be in a higher placed tier then where she is.

I really don't want to derail this thread as it isn't about any specific character but I'll post this. She hasn't had a lot of exposure sure, but even as we delve further into what she can and can't do she still doesn't have as good tools as the "very good" part of the cast.

I'm finding it quite offensive that you're making LolingOctopus to be the best thing ever to happen to Jade, as if the Jade community hasn't discovered anything good with her or how to play her well within the past year. I don't want to discredit the guy as he's great with her, but I haven't seen him do anything that sets him apart from the other great Jade players (especially NeoRussell). He discovered the TaC reset on his own accord, he plays her well. Good stuff! (not being sarcastic). I look forward to seeing more from him in the future. But I don't think there's anything more to it for now. Disclamer: If I'm wrong about any crazy currently unknown setups he's found, I would love to be shown that!

I don't claim to be among the best Jade players, but I have spent ages playing her and trawling through her frame data trying to find good setups that are useful and don't have a chance of getting completely blown up. I fear if she does get more popular then people will just realise stuff like the massive holes in her block strings and the fact that you can actually duck an ex shadow kick (duno where that misconception came from lol).

However I will say I would like people to start blowing me up for using these block strings and pseudo setups, because that means I can start getting practice playing more cleverly, which is a reason I enjoy using her, she teaches you to play well. You're right you can cancel her strings early to get people to respect the whole block string but that means some of her gameplay is heavily based on your mixups and how well your opponents reads them... where have we seen that before? Scorpion! What tier is he in in this list? Same as Jade. But at least she has good footsies XD

I don't want to be lumped in with the people who "downplay" their character as I do think she is a ton better than the majority of people think she is and personally feel she should at least be in the same tier as NW and Stryker, I'm just being realistic in what I feel her tools allow her to achieve.

Again, no disrespect to LolingOctopus, love seeing him play her. I just don't see the reason to put him on a pedestal when there are other great Jades, even if their numbers are few. (NeoRussell you're my hero)

Anyway, back to discussing Tom's community tier list, nothing to see here people, move along...

 

[zaf]

you are right. lwts not deraail this. imstead illvshoot you a pm

 

[TakeAChance]

Octopus is good with Jade, and I mean this as no disrespect to him, but the way he plays her can easily get derailed by someone who exploits her weakness. Don't get me wrong, he was PHENOMINAL at Toryuken, and I loved his gameplay. But d3 shadowkick gets blown by A)counter poking, and B)ducking. I loved his fast past game tho, it was great to see.

My question is this, why is Skarlet so low? It was the only thing that caught my eye. What's her weakness over all that sets her apart from the A's?

 

[zaf]

just one last thing.

chance, ive asked loling before and if he does d3 shadowkick its to keep you playing footsies and catch people jumping after his pokes. if he gets poked back he doesnt care, hes still playing footsies and thats what he wants as jade

 

[gdf]

To be honest I like this tier list. It seems to be based on, "This character is good, however another character does it better."

Noob can zone, just not as well as Kabal, Freddy or Kenshi, for example. That is probably why he ranks so low on the tier list. But the list does not take into account victories from members like Grolar, or Flawedzilla, but rather the CHARACTERS tools and comparing them to other characters.

Those of you arguing tier placements based on player performances (lolling octopus is excellent btw) with that character are fighting a useless battle, because in tournament time it's the player that wins, not the characters. And the thread is about how characters stack up against each other. Tuff tii-ees.