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Match-up Discussion My Joker matchup chart

Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So, I wanted to make a matchup chart so we can see where Joker stands and what his matchups are all like in a summarized thread as well as see how other people view the Joker matchup.

Bane 5-5
Grundy 4-6
Harley Quinn 4-6
Shazam 4-6
Lobo 5-5
Doomsday 3-7 possible 4-6
Green Arrow 4-6
Lex 5-5
Aquaman 3-7
Hawkgirl 4-6
Catwoman 5-5
Flash 3-7
Deathstroke 5-5
Nightwing 4-6 possibly even
Raven 4-6 possibly even
Scorpion 6-4
Batgirl 4-6
Ares 5-5
Superman 3-7 Changed from 4-6 after discussing with Emperor Theo
Green Lantern 3-7
Sinestro 3-7
Zod 4-6
Batman 3-7
Wonder Woman 4-6
Cyborg 4-6 possibly even
Black Adam 4-6
Frost with a killer and longer hair 4-6
Zatanna 5-5


let me just remind you

4-6 slight disadvantage, almost even
3-7 serious disadvantage



Discuss.
 
Dr Jackal

Dr Jackal

Dr__Jackal
Lex luthor it's 6-4 for me
Catwoman 4-6 If you fight a really good catwoman this match up is difficult for Joker, no possibility to win in the air. Catwoman can keep her distances with joker and be close to you in one sec.
Green lantern 4-6, almost 5-5 for me.
Shazam 3-7 (no possibility to set up teeth trap)

Almost agree for the others chars.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Dr Jackal said:
Lex luthor it's 6-4 for me
Catwoman 4-6 If you fight a really good catwoman this match up is difficult for Joker, no possibility to win in the air. Catwoman can keep her distances with joker and be close to you in one sec.
Green lantern 4-6, almost 5-5 for me.
Shazam 3-7 (no possibility to set up teeth trap)

Almost agree for the others chars.
Click to expand...
explain why.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
I still think Shazam is even, but eh.

What makes DD and Flash 3-7? I haven't faced a high level player for either one so hard for me to judge but doesn't *seem* like it should be that bad.

Nightwing is 4-6? That feels like one of our worst MUs IMO. We don't really have many options around Wingdings or staff stance in general.

Also please give me advice on how to make BA MU 4-6, because that feels borderline unwinnable if the BA plays patiently to me.

I assume any character not on the list is due to a lack of MU experience?

Personally MMH feels like a 4-6, MAYBE even to me. I recently had a chance to play some sets against a good one recently, and while I got destroyed, it felt like that was all due to personal lack of MU knowledge but the Joker/MMH MU didn't feel that bad.

EDIT: Here's to hoping PS3 browser doesn't eat my formatting again.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
catwoman can be antiaired, her catdash is not safe and d1 flower will keep the fullscreen version out, wasting a bar.

just because shazam escapes teeth traps does not mean the matchup is 3 7.

green lantern is 4 6 minimum, he gets the lead easier and keeps it easier, he outfootsies us and does the same damage miscreen, only saving grace is the corner. he also has a ridiculous coinflip vortex. I've told the same to Denzel and we came to an agreement.

lex has a lot of setups and trait shit.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Fromundaman said:
I still think Shazam is even, but eh.

What makes DD and Flash 3-7? I haven't faced a high level player for either one so hard for me to judge but doesn't *seem* like it should be that bad.

Nightwing is 4-6? That feels like one of our worst MUs IMO. We don't really have many options around Wingdings or staff stance in general.

Also please give me advice on how to make BA MU 4-6, because that feels borderline unwinnable if the BA plays patiently to me.

I assume any character not on the list is due to a lack of MU experience?

Personally MMH feels like a 4-6, MAYBE even to me. I recently had a chance to play some sets against a good one recently, and while I got destroyed, it felt like that was all due to persoonal lack of MU knowledge but the Joker/MMH MU didn't feel that bad.

EDIT: Here's to hoping PS3 browser doesn't eat my formatting again.
Click to expand...
I feel your pain, PS3 browser is so shit.

You can jump BAs lightning on reaction and gunshot punish it on reversal, he can't do black magic without you getting a free gunshot and lightning is a punish as well like I said. It all comes down to the up close and midrange game where BA excels and our damage is the same, the wallcarry combo midscreen also helps us set up our metered reset loops in the corner.

NW is not that difficult, his pressure is decent, his zoning is decent as well, his keepaway tools do lack when you block properly, wing dings are very - and he has no answer to J3, in the corner you can also do metered reset loops (sounds like a cereal name lol). When he does decide to check you with staff stance 1f1 staff pound MB stand up and 11 mb rlg that shit.

Flash is a nightmare, one combo is 50 something into ambiguous crossup setups where even if he guesses wrong he still gets a free 50/50 via sonic pound okis advantage, he severely outdamages us, he can turtle and build his trait back, sonic phase through gunshots and his 50/50s really hurt. In the corner if you don't reverse the situation with a crossup you're fucked as he's in permanent 50/50 town.

DD I am not sure at all, he has insanely good pressure in the corner and air snatch will always keep you honest unless you do a really early J3, midrange venom should always be parried but up close in sweep range his D1 reaches very far and will beat anything you do, laying down teeth can be MB venomed on read. In the corner you're fucked, from a distance you're fucked because he's filling up trait ( wear it down with 323 d1d1d1d1) and it's only even within jump distance. Not sure whether to put 4-6 due to low damage output or 3-7.
 
Impractical Joker

Impractical Joker

Noob
Explain the Deathstroke numbers? I'm not arguing but from my mental theory fighting I would think Deathstroke out ones Joker and has the advantage up close with a great f3, safe 50-50's, and a fast anti air sword flip. Not to mention his jump 3 is a good air attack. Wouldn't joker have to come to him too?
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Impractical Joker said:
Explain the Deathstroke numbers? I'm not arguing but from my mental theory fighting I would think Deathstroke out ones Joker and has the advantage up close with a great f3, safe 50-50's, and a fast anti air sword flip. Not to mention his jump 3 is a good air attack. Wouldn't joker have to come to him too?
Click to expand...
J3 will not be sword flipped on reaction, his own J3 does not have much range, you will AA it half the time.

F3 is reactable and blockable, in the corner deathstroke loses, fullscreen deathstroke always wins unless there a huge ass lead and up close its pretty even, therefore 5-5.
 
Lumpymoomilk

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
I really only play Lobo these days but it seems like a fair match at 5-5. Jokers zoning isn't exactly hard to get in on and neither have great normals so it's fairly even up close too.
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Qwark28 said:
scorpion has too low damage, 2-3 of scorpions mixups are one bnb for joker, not to mention he can't escape corner resets and has no answer to J3.
Click to expand...

so damage output is the main factor you have it as that?

no answers to j3 in what situation? i know j3 can catch the telepunch alot of time but mb b3/f3or avoiding the jump in by backdashing/jumping back still options so in neutral game anyway i think scorpion has some answers for that
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
1man3letters said:
so damage output is the main factor you have it as that?

no answers to j3 in what situation? i know j3 can catch the telepunch alot of time but mb b3/f3or avoiding the jump in by backdashing/jumping back still options so in neutral game anyway i think scorpion has some answers for that
Click to expand...
damage output is a part. scorpion cannot escape jokers corner resets, joker can keep a lifelead better and zone scorpion only a little bit.

everyone can escape J3 that way, they still have to deal with joker jumping in and doing whatever he wants. Jump back is also not an option as J3 has huge range, you have to deal with jumps from a char designed to jump with every nailed grounded jump being 42 % with half a stage of wallcarry/ 48% with some wallcarry and most air to air jumps being 20%
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Blind_Man said:
7-3
Click to expand...
If he has meter and corners you he essentially has infinites that will take a whole bar.

Other than that hid d2 outranges most oh her strings and if he gets a lifelead it becomes easier for him. Definite 6-4 but he has the tools to compete.
 
PND_Ketchup

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I personally feel that Deathstroke beats joker 6-4. Joker absolutely cannot zone deathstroke, and I feel like I don't have much of a hard time dealing with wakeup mixups because I can swordflip on reaction to a jump in in that respect.

We should play the matchup soonish to get a definitive answer on it!
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
PND_Ketchup said:
I personally feel that Deathstroke beats joker 6-4. Joker absolutely cannot zone deathstroke, and I feel like I don't have much of a hard time dealing with wakeup mixups because I can swordflip on reaction to a jump in in that respect.

We should play the matchup soonish to get a definitive answer on it!
Click to expand...
thing is, almost all of jokers jumps are safe jumps when done from a setup

joker can zone deathstroke and needs to establish some respect for gunshot so that he can bait a low gunshot which is - a milion, not to mention a gunshot on block is a free dash for joker.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
LiangHuBBB said:
Why do you think DS vs Joker is 5-5?
I feel like this MU favors DS almost 7-3.
I might be wrong though.
Click to expand...
standard joker resets in the corner when he has bar, deathstroke being a zoner that relies on catching ppl pressing butons therefore one blocked projectile is a free dash + being able to zone a bit himself. damage and wallcarry being high and having some half decent mixups of his own.
 
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