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My #1 idea to improve MKX Online Experience. Thoughts?

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Stop. You're conflating theoretical performance with practical performance and using an appeal to authority to attempt to sway people who may not know better into believing you.

For reasons I've already covered in this thread, Wi-Fi (yes, even in the 5GHz range) is *at best* 1/3 as performant as Ethernet. Furthermore, the variance in ping (jitter) and throughput that is inherent to Wi-Fi is a major factor in online gaming quality.

In NRS games, where the netcode is basically the most naive implementation of P2P possible, a constant ping is *the* most important factor. When the two players sync at the beginning of the match, they're basically writing a scheduling contract that dictates the frequency of when to expect packets and when packets from the other player should be expected.

This contract on Wi-Fi is very easily broken due to CSMA/CA. For those that don't know, CSMA/CA is the standard way that Wi-Fi clients check to see if they can send information. Here's a breakdown from the wireless client's perspective:

1. Is there a carrier feed (data) on the channel I'm on right now?
A. No --> data gets sent
B. Yes --> wait a random amount of time, then repeat step 1.

The random amount of time part is the killer for NRS games because the other side of the connection is relying on a constant stream of packets.

Now, you might be thinking that this isn't a big deal because chances are the channel won't be busy, but consider how many wireless devices the average home has now, and how many of them are constantly sending and receiving micro-updates. Everything from the smallest push notification to your phone, to even the rudimentary ARP traffic that goes to and from each network device (note that CSMA/CA is a layer 1 responsibility, so even sub-TCP/IP traffic is included in what affects jitter).

The switched nature of Ethernet nowadays is what really helps guarantee that constant flow of data and ultimately makes NRS games a lot more playable. The switching algorithms used basically act as a scheduler that, even in situations where there are a large number of devices talking, data will be sent and received over the wire in a consistent interval.

That said, you may place your apology here:
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my boi bill laying down the PENIX
 

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
This is actually a pretty good idea when you want to play randoms online but not suffer a mish mash of connections.
I know i'd be timed out purely for people in my house doing exactly those things :')
BUT when it's all sorted out again i'd love to not be matched with awful games, this is a step in the right direction at least.
 

theotherguy

Kombatant
Has anyone here actually tried to make a game with netplay in it?
Maybe not here, but there's plenty of other companies who have, and they have proven it's possible to make games with decent netplay. I've had this come up a few times during KOTH matches and you just want to bash your head against the screen. I haven't made a rocket either, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Wired looks something like this:
And wireless looks like this:
Now that is interesting. Straight away you can see there's an inconsistency in wireless. For a game that relies on accurate data at the right time, things like that almost certainly aren't a good thing.

Surely that puts to rest the wired/wireless debate?
 
I can't think of another competitive game that would gatekeep content in the way this post has presented. Wonder why? Couldn't possibly be that it's a terrible idea. I mean, you can theoretically do it in shooters, mmo's, the e-sports kings(MOBA's). Weird how no one I can think of does this.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I can't think of another competitive game that would gatekeep content in the way this post has presented. Wonder why? Couldn't possibly be that it's a terrible idea. I mean, you can theoretically do it in shooters, mmo's, the e-sports kings(MOBA's). Weird how no one I can think of does this.
We'll see

I understand your concern if u have shitty Internet


Get what u pay for boast mobile < Verizon
 

Ns_Brutalmileena

Wheres Mileener!BRUH
So since a lot of people still seem to have outdated rumor-based knowledge dating back to 1999, I will post this again here:

It hardly matters whether you're on a wired or wireless connection.

Shock and awe, right? How is this possible? There was an era where wireless speeds and latencies simply weren't fast enough for the kind of reliability and throughput necessary to play an online fighting game. The hardware simply did not support a fast enough signal with enough throughput.

However, we now live in 2015. Your PS4 supports wireless N, and your Xbox One even supports Dual-Band Wifi with the 5 Ghz band. Transfer is fast enough to be near-imperceptible compared to the over-the-wire endpoint-to-endpoint latency from you to the game host/server, as long as you use good practice and proper, up-to-date hardware.

Yet, in the same sence that people keep repeating "MK is a simple braindead game for n00bs" because they heard someone else say it, people are still repeating platitudes from the days when we had 802.11b connections.

So what DOES matter?

The following keys:
  1. If you *are* using wireless, you need to make sure that your system is an acceptable distance from the router, as the signal will decay (and become more susceptible to interference in the 2.4 Ghz band) with distance. If the router is in the next room, great. If the router is 4 floors down in the basement, not so great. If you have the 5ghz band available, you want to use that, as it will further minimize outside interference.
  2. Network traffic: Regardless of whether you use wireless or wired, you need to be aware of what else is happening on your home network. If you have a fancy Gigabit Ethernet connection, with spiffy Cat 6 cable to the router, and a nice $70/month line to your ISP, but there are two other people in your home watching Netflix HD while you're playing MKX, you aren't going to get the benefit of your setup. If you're on wireless, it goes without saying, but obviously you want to make sure you're on a password-protected network as well.
  3. Connection and peering: All connections are not made alike. There's a lot that can happen to a packet between your system and the server, and your ISP's advertised speed or bandwidth (including what you measure on a site like Speedtest) doesn't even begin to tell the whole story. Reliability and speed are not the same thing. You can ping well, but suffer from momentary spikes and interruptions. You can have great average bandwidth, but suffer from packet loss and erratic ping. Etc. There is no common metric or number that will tell you have you have a good connection to a server or a player -- you either do, or you don't; and it's based on multiple factors outside of your control.
So the moral of the story is, if you really want to have a system that determines who does or doesn't qualify for online tournament play, you need to have an automated test that simulates some kind of representative transfer *over time* and analyzes the quality of the connection. No more no less, and no silly platitudes repeated by people who couldn't tell you the different between wireless B and G or what a TCP packet is :)
Vinny Gambini: I'm sorry, I was all the way over here. I couldn't hear you. Did you say you were a fast cook? That's it?

[Mr. Tipton nods in embarrassment]

Vinny Gambini: Are we to believe that boiling water soaks into a grit faster in your kitchen than on any place on the face of the earth?

Mr. Tipton: I don't know.

Vinny Gambini: Well, perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove. Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?
 
We'll see

I understand your concern if u have shitty Internet


Get what u pay for boast mobile < Verizon
My internet's just fine. I don't blame lag or characters when I lose, I just accept my skill level wasn't as good as my competitors.

My concern is that your solution isn't solving anything where it matters(the games actual code being shit), just as your concern isn't having a discussion with anyone who disagrees with you.

I do want to say GGs in ESL tonight. I mean that sincerely. I do hope Kenshi gets adjusted more, and I hope you make it to the ESL finals, as you're always entertaining to watch.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
My internet's just fine. I don't blame lag or characters when I lose, I just accept my skill level wasn't as good as my competitors.

My concern is that your solution isn't solving anything where it matters(the games actual code being shit), just as your concern isn't having a discussion with anyone who disagrees with you.

I do want to say GGs in ESL tonight. I mean that sincerely. I do hope Kenshi gets adjusted more, and I hope you make it to the ESL finals, as you're always entertaining to watch.
Doesn't look good in a world of Tanya But it's fine

I'd rather stick w my bottom 5 than tier whore and fail like others

I enjoy kenshi regardless because he's my favorite
 

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
I don't know how they would be able to determine that they're using a wired connection. IF they based it on their download/upload/ping, they would have to set the bar pretty high because some WiFi connections do allow for rather fast download speeds. What would the threshold for that be?
Kinda easy to just use the info stored on the console to know what connection you use.

But let's be honest here : people had opportunities to yell / protest / voice their opinions about NRS taking us for fools for like 3 games in a row.

They passed.

People brought an open letter to NRS with online problems and ways to improve all that shit (ping meter etc)

NRS passed.


No chance in hell anything changes now ... both sides seem to feel happy with each other though.
 
Doesn't look good in a world of Tanya But it's fine

I'd rather stick w my bottom 5 than tier whore and fail like others

I enjoy kenshi regardless because he's my favorite
Yeah, it's just rough to watch sometimes because you can see the spaces where another character could do this or that and you have no comparable option with him.

That all Tanya too 4 was an embarrassment to the scene, IMO. The same character and same variation, all throwing out the same string over and over. It actually made me excited to see Lao when he popped up.

As for your suggestion, why make it a separate mode. Why not have it only connect you with players of a similar ping/connection/whatever in ranked. No need for Ranked and Really ranked options.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Yeah, it's just rough to watch sometimes because you can see the spaces where another character could do this or that and you have no comparable option with him.

That all Tanya too 4 was an embarrassment to the scene, IMO. The same character and same variation, all throwing out the same string over and over. It actually made me excited to see Lao when he popped up.

As for your suggestion, why make it a separate mode. Why not have it only connect you with players of a similar ping/connection/whatever in ranked. No need for Ranked and Really ranked options.
Because it would help w quality control for Esl matches. Too often kids get on their wifi while sister is downloading Netflix and it very noticeable

That's all I'd really want it for and for online tournaments
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Maybe not here, but there's plenty of other companies who have, and they have proven it's possible to make games with decent netplay. I've had this come up a few times during KOTH matches and you just want to bash your head against the screen. I haven't made a rocket either, doesn't mean it can't be done.
The point is people have lost all perspective. MKX has decent netplay. Go play MK9 or KoF13.
 

Vjeekes

DevilApes
What really needs to happen is NRS needs to step up in this department
@tylerlansdown @colt

There needs to be a tournament mode online added. It would only allow people to enter tournament mode w a detected wired Xbox/ps4 connection and a required threshold ping/download/upload and this check occurs throughout the user's online stint.

If for any reason a sister, brother , etc turns on Netflix and pulls the connection down then tournament mode instantly kicks you off w a penalty timeout before trying to get back in tournament mode.

There needs to be a strong foundation put in place to prohibit people getting away w dumpster connections and NRS, while hoping they're finally improving net code, can eliminate 95% of the issues in the meantime just by implementing a mode such as this.

People w crap connections and wireless can play each other in the regular mode but people who can access tournament mode play people w wired confirmed connections and great internet

Thoughts? Does this make You nervous reading this ?
Even if Im against wireless gameplay, it doesnt really matter if someone is playing wired or not. As long as his ping is low enough!
Its an amazing idea man!!
I hope they will bring this out some day
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
This idea will never happen because it would alienate a large portion of their online playerbase.

Even if they are casual and dont care about competitive play at all, as soon as they try a new mode that says "you do not have a sufficient connection to play" they would get pissed. Multiply that times a couple thousand/hundred thousand people and NRS would have a problem.

I mean its a cool idea but as NRS there would zero reason to do this.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Kinda easy to just use the info stored on the console to know what connection you use.

But let's be honest here : people had opportunities to yell / protest / voice their opinions about NRS taking us for fools for like 3 games in a row.

They passed.

People brought an open letter to NRS with online problems and ways to improve all that shit (ping meter etc)

NRS passed.


No chance in hell anything changes now ... both sides seem to feel happy with each other though.
Are you new here? People have never passed on complaining about NRS netcode. Never. Playing MK online has been one of the biggest jokes in the industry since the PS2 era.
 

theotherguy

Kombatant
"you do not have a sufficient connection to play" they would get pissed
Good point, but so long as there is an explanation as to why, i'd like to think that most people would understand. If it explains that your connection is not up to standard for this mode, try using a wired connection, ensure no other devices are using the net etc., then I can't see how that's a bad thing. If nothing else it might get a few more people playing with a decent connection.

It's not stopping them from playing the game, just not that small part of the game.
 
Reactions: nwo

roosTakk

Chode Juggler
- The dumbassery in this thread about how networking works is staggering. If you play on wifi your a fucking scumbag.

- This is a good idea but I highly doubt NRS would ever implement something like this

- They have made it pretty clear they don't give a fuck about the netcode. They are still making money hand over fist from casual players. Release more DLC with 2 guest characters = $$$.

- Same as how EA releases an incomplete game with $50 DLC. Everyone gets all righteous and upset yet they still buy the game.

- Just like how I despise NRS for releasing MKX with this atrocity of a netcode. But if you think that will keep me from buying Cyrax....
 

Catnip_Her0

Burn It Down
Online is fine stahhhpppp until random joe from up the block wins a week of na esl or cheeky william from upper plumpton wins eu ........ it's all gravy baby
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
This idea will never happen because it would alienate a large portion of their online playerbase.

Even if they are casual and dont care about competitive play at all, as soon as they try a new mode that says "you do not have a sufficient connection to play" they would get pissed. Multiply that times a couple thousand/hundred thousand people and NRS would have a problem.

I mean its a cool idea but as NRS there would zero reason to do this.
They would still be able to play online just not w the people w best connections
Whats wrong w that