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Discussion MKXL Post 3/29/16 Tier List Thread

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Question: Could Leatherface be moved higher in time? From what I've seen only Butcher received super significant changes in the patch.

The only people playing the character go to Killer, is it possible that Pretty Lady is underdeveloped?
Most likely, I should probably put a plus next to him as well...

i still think if we are doing tier lists then it shouldn't be as a whole character. it should be per variation
Do people even read past the first page anymore?
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Question: Could Leatherface be moved higher in time? From what I've seen only Butcher received super significant changes in the patch.

The only people playing the character go to Killer, is it possible that Pretty Lady is underdeveloped?
Wasn't he nerfed? His vortex was taken away.
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
Piercing covers every match better than tempest. Orbit hat is shitty in neutral, people can just attack it the same way people attack the ice clone, but even easier.

His nerfs didn't really mean anything other than he lost his d4, the real issues are the same ones he's had forever.

Ex spin is a good punisher, but how many people are gonna purposefully do -7 moves knowing this? Otherwise it's just a 'LETS HOPE THIS HITS LOLOL' type of move (except as an anti air, which it isn't even the best anti air in the game).

Give Lao a 6f stand jab, and make f2 a true mid and a quicker low poke then we'd be talking. But otherwise he just doesn't play mkx well.

Any character with a 6f poke can literally just block and mash it all match because he doesn't have anyway to make a gap smaller than 7f in his 'offense'. Not without making himself +7 which gives him a d4/f2 check but that's pretty meh.

The numbers literally don't lie, he can be plus but he's still negative against a majority of the cast.

As it stands the only characters I think are worse than Lao are:

Raiden
Triborg
Kenshi (maybe not)
POSSIBLY Goro
BRC

So I'd put him in the bottom 10, a combination of nerfs over time, generally meh normals across all variations and a vast amount of buffs across the board for other characters have just wrecked him.
I agree with pretty much everything, But why do you think ex spin isnt the best AA in The game? Just curious...
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
This list is pretty good. I definitly agree with the S tiers including Ermac (that I had my eye on for quite a while).

I would put Scorpion a lot higher though. Same with Tanya who still has great mobility, a decent mixup game and an armored combostarter and decent damage in DN - I don't see where she is lacking...

Besides I think that HQT Predator beats plenty of the A-tier characters. Generally he has such a good offense, yet he loses so hard against a handful characters. It is hard to put him on a tierlist, but I'd see him slightly higher (A+ tier)...
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
This list is pretty good. I definitly agree with the S tiers including Ermac (that I had my eye on for quite a while).

I would put Scorpion a lot higher though. Same with Tanya who still has great mobility, a decent mixup game and an armored combostarter and decent damage in DN - I don't see where she is lacking...

Besides I think that HQT Predator beats plenty of the A-tier characters. Generally he has such a good offense, yet he loses so hard against a handful characters. It is hard to put him on a tierlist, but I'd see him slightly higher (A+ tier)...
Agree with everything but scorpion, but yeah. I can see HQT being much worse than Sub-Zero matchup wise.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
This list is pretty good. I definitly agree with the S tiers including Ermac (that I had my eye on for quite a while).

I would put Scorpion a lot higher though. Same with Tanya who still has great mobility, a decent mixup game and an armored combostarter and decent damage in DN - I don't see where she is lacking...

Besides I think that HQT Predator beats plenty of the A-tier characters. Generally he has such a good offense, yet he loses so hard against a handful characters. It is hard to put him on a tierlist, but I'd see him slightly higher (A+ tier)...
Scorpion is at a good spot, he's a solid character but I wouldn't place him as cheap as characters like Quan or Tremor.

People don't really go "Fuck it's scorpion, I'm done for".
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Scorpion is at a good spot, he's a solid character but I wouldn't place him as cheap as characters like Quan or Tremor.

People don't really go "Fuck it's scorpion, I'm done for".
Maybe they should. Scorpion is a goer, now. He could do damage in pools
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Tbh I'm mostly surprised it took you a month to post this tier list :DOGE

But yeah I agree with this for the most part, glad at least someone is catching up to seeing Ermac is possibly S tier and Shinnok isn't top 5 :p
If I were to make any changes it'd probably be to see Ferra/Torr move up a bit (which you've noted is a possibility anyway) and Kotal move up a bit
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Same with Tanya who still has great mobility, a decent mixup game and an armored combostarter and decent damage in DN - I don't see where she is lacking...
She has no mobility other than walking back and forth and her walk speed isn't even the best. If she uses teleport or any air special she will be full combo punished, all of them have very bad recovery. Her damage in DN was stealth nerf very long ago and NRS didn't bother buffing it again.
Kobu Jutsu is only good at 1 thing: footsie with her 10f mid. Unfortunately NRS nerfed one thing that nobody knows why, noone's ever complaint about: Kobu Jutsu combo damage. Her footsie leads to terrible damage, she has to open people up like 20 times per match to win
Many universal nerfs also cripple her: NRS reduced chip damage AND meter building on blocking normals. She's more meter hungry, does less chip damage and less combo damage in the same patch. Throw is made to be more easier to tech also hurts her
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Yes, the character with +22 run cancels definitely doesn't scare anyone..
It's not guaranteed though like other RC characters due to the gap.
She has no mobility other than walking back and forth and her walk speed isn't even the best. If she uses teleport or any air special she will be full combo punished, all of them have very bad recovery. Her damage in DN was stealth nerf very long ago and NRS didn't bother buffing it again.
Kobu Jutsu is only good at 1 thing: footsie with her 10f mid. Unfortunately NRS nerfed one thing that nobody knows why, noone's ever complaint about: Kobu Jutsu combo damage. Her footsie leads to terrible damage, she has to open people up like 20 times per match to win
Many universal nerfs also cripple her: NRS reduced chip damage AND meter building on blocking normals. She's more meter hungry, does less chip damage and less combo damage in the same patch. Throw is made to be more easier to tech also hurts her
TBH I always thought prepatch Kobu's damage was too high and that nerfing it would've been a good solution to balance her.
 

N00B

Noob
Piercing covers every match better than tempest. Orbit hat is shitty in neutral, people can just attack it the same way people attack the ice clone, but even easier.

His nerfs didn't really mean anything other than he lost his d4, the real issues are the same ones he's had forever.

Ex spin is a good punisher, but how many people are gonna purposefully do -7 moves knowing this? Otherwise it's just a 'LETS HOPE THIS HITS LOLOL' type of move (except as an anti air, which it isn't even the best anti air in the game).

Give Lao a 6f stand jab, and make f2 a true mid and a quicker low poke then we'd be talking. But otherwise he just doesn't play mkx well.

Any character with a 6f poke can literally just block and mash it all match because he doesn't have anyway to make a gap smaller than 7f in his 'offense'. Not without making himself +7 which gives him a d4/f2 check but that's pretty meh.

The numbers literally don't lie, he can be plus but he's still negative against a majority of the cast.

As it stands the only characters I think are worse than Lao are:

Raiden
Triborg
Kenshi (maybe not)
POSSIBLY Goro
BRC

So I'd put him in the bottom 10, a combination of nerfs over time, generally meh normals across all variations and a vast amount of buffs across the board for other characters have just wrecked him.
Kung Lao has medicore neutral game, bad up close game, he had forever bad up close game, medicore offense and good deffense, but its not enough for wining and making top 8 on big tournaments and even 6 fr s1, f2 true mid and 7 fr d1 wouldnt do shit for buzz saw and hat trick and its boring only using f2, d1 and s1 everytime because everything else cool normals and some cool strings still stays too slow or too negative or too slow and negative.
Kung Lao is the one of those type of characters who should have fast normals for good neutral game and good up close game, and use all his normals and some strings in fight, thats would make him just strong and more fun , not broken, OP and unfair imo.

This buffs would make Kung Lao in general and all 3 variations viable on high level and more fun;
6 fr s1 = for good up close game
8 fr 11 = for good up close game
8 fr b1 true mid -4 on block = for good up close game
13 fr b3 = for better neutral game
12 fr f3 +10 on hit -5 on block = just for fun and for better neutral game
f34 +2 on block = just for fun
11 fr f4 -6 on block = just for fun
f1 overhead = just for fun
regular orb hat -6 on block
ex spin in buzz saw and hat trick +5% damage
and hat trick needs some buffs on special moves
And then we d be talking. :cool:
 
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N00B

Noob
The only character that deserves a 8f mid is Jacqui
Jacqui deserve nothing, she already has, fast af normals for up close game 6 fr s1, 7 fr d1, 8 fr s4, for neutral game she has that safe advancing special move with armor that was buffed so you cant say her neutral is bad anymore and plus she has unreactable oh/low mix ups, safe mix ups plus a decent zoning in one variation, meterless vortex in one and jailing, loopable pressure with insane chip damage in one tho.
 
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Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
:p
Tbh I'm mostly surprised it took you a month to post this tier list :DOGE

But yeah I agree with this for the most part, glad at least someone is catching up to seeing Ermac is possibly S tier and Shinnok isn't top 5 :p
If I were to make any changes it'd probably be to see Ferra/Torr move up a bit (which you've noted is a possibility anyway) and Kotal move up a bit
Im gonna go ahead and apologize for saying to you a while back that Ermac isn't that good and Kotal is way better. It took me some time but I see how wrong I was on both characters. :)