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Discussion MKXL Post 3/29/16 Tier List Thread

ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Dankster Morgan said:
Yeah that's why I made the comparison of fisti being plagued in the same way lao is, but having good normals.
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I don't think fisticuffs normals are much better than KL's actually, at least is debatable...
Cage standing 1 is 9 frames. B1 is super short range and leads to buggy speedbag.
F3 is great but wasted in the variation. His fastest poke is d3 that now is -9...
 
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
DDutchguy said:
Pressure character Kung Lao "Has no real offense, always has to give up his turn..."

Look I'm anything but high level and not a Lao expert by any means, but how come we've seen so so much Lao in the past even though he apparently doesn't have much going for him. If Lao is like this Foxy, then what have we been seeing from you and other Lao players? Were you just fighting people who 'don't know the matchup'?
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he's still good imo but we were seeing so much lao because he didn't have to always give up his turn
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
ismael4790 said:
I don't think fisticuffs normals are much better than KL's actually, at least is debatable...
Cage standing 1 is 9 frames. B1 is super short range and leads to buggy speedbag.
F3 is great but wasted in the variation. His fastest poke is d3 that now is -9...
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He has the best d4 in the game, good d1, d3 is ok even though minus 9 kinda blows, f3 is great, his overhead string is miles better than Lao's. Definitely at least debatable though, you're right.
 
NHDR

NHDR

Kombatant
Can you post which variation you're thinking of for each character? I only play Kano and Kotal, don't know jack about any of the other characters.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
We gotta stop with the "look at what this variation gets, so it sucks".

Fisticuffs Cage is without a doubt better than any variation of Kung Lao, or any variation of a lot of characters. Cage doesn't need a variation.

Btw, when Slayer made that list on Twitter, he also didn't include Alien or Kung Jin, so I mean, yeah.
 
WiseM0nkey

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
xxFalcon Loverxx said:
I still don't get how Kung Lao is bottom 10, EX hat spin +7 on block and now it doesn't allow free pressure? Omg, bottom 10.
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it wasnt free pressure at +12 either. It's just that people wants to press buttons everytime and they dont wanna respect a stupid d4. None of his followups jailed besides d4 or f2

SneakyTortoise said:
Inversely related to that, why scrubs think Kano isn't great: "he has a floaty jump"
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exactly, and they dont think about the instant jump 1s to jail a 50/50
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Tweedy said:
Jacqui is in the top half of the cast imo.

Kobu and Possessed are not B or B+ tier imo.

Besides that I like it. I'm glad you have Kotal in the middle of the cast, rather than in the top 5(some people put him there).

Also, it's not anyone's fault but Displacer is nowhere near A- tier. He's probably A+, however, it's the fault of the lack of representation. Character is hard to play really well.
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Yeah I'm a kotal main as well and I can safely say if you have kotal at top 5 or even top 10 (imo) then you don't know the matchup. People that think he's that good must just eat lows and mids and corner ex sword tosses lol
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Tweedy said:
He's a neutral character with bottom 3 walkspeed and a mid that's not a mid. His pressure is bad. Use a bar on being +7 when to get plus 7 you're always leaving a gap, and once you're there, you don't have any mix up. You just try to get another 2-3% chip. Grabs are reactable now, so there goes that mix up.

Cage's D4 and F2 mix up is legit, because he can rep out 6-7% chip for free just with his stamina, so if he lands a D4, it's really like 10% instead of 3% into another advantageous mind game. Kung Lao doesn't have anything of the sort. He just hopes that your lack of MU knowledge makes you respect his staggers.

He's maybe the worst character you could play if you want to be competitive. Vs good players you land a couple EX spins, or you lose. I could see how if you play like online ranked, you could anti air people who jump for no reason, people could respect your staggers, or whatever. In a competitive setting nothing he does works. A Kung Lao specialist, if they exist, will never see the end of a pool at a major again.
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I wouldn't say the WORST but yeah. Rip Lao. Unnecessary nerf to the ex hat. He was only guaranteed a d4 IF you had the execution
 
ragnar0kz28

ragnar0kz28

Warrior
S Tier: Mileena, Johnny Cage, D'Vorah, Takeda, Ermac, Alien, Sonya
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A+ Tier: Jax, Sub-Zero, Quan Chi, Shinnok, Kung Jin, Liu Kang, Tremor, Ferra Torr, Kano, Cassie

A Tier: Kotal, Scorpion, Jacqui, Erron Black, Predator, Reptile, Kitana, Leatherface, Kung Lao
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B+ Tier: Goro, Raiden, Triborg, Jason

B tier: Kenshi, Tanya, Bo Rai Cho

This would be my tierlist, Jason was too high, Lao and Kitana too low, BRC is trash, triborg got many nerfs he might even be lower.
 
Reactions: JDM
The Highlander

The Highlander

There can be only one
Rude said:
What happened to Tremor being bad that was floating around the forums?

Wasn't he nerfed in the last patch?
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He was nerfed : his pokes were made more minus, his OTG was taken away, his damage was neutered, and his overhead rock was made pretty terrible unless EX'd and they didn't buff his pokes or mids so he has a 9f poke and an 18f mid. But they kept the flash parry and crystalline kept the armour as well as the the low launcher so he's still hanging in there.

Edit: by taken away I mean scaled to do like 3%-5%
 
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TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
The Highlander said:
He was nerfed : his pokes were made more minus, his OTG was taken away, his damage was neutered, and his overhead rock was made pretty terrible unless EX'd and they didn't buff his pokes or mids so he has a 9f poke and an 18f mid. But they kept the flash parry and crystalline kept the armour as well as the the low launcher so he's still hanging in there.
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Too bad the ex low crystal is -5 when him being positive didn't mean much. He has nothing but highs lol. Also its a 19f mid :p
 
Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
ismael4790 said:
They are okish, but I don't see Possessed or Kenjutsu being much better than the best variation of any of the characters he listed as B+. Kung Lao can't be in the same tier as Kenshi, come on...

If Balanced was buffed to the level of surpassing Kenjutsu and Possessed (which is not going to happen), maybe Kenshi could travel to B+ or even A.
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Kenshi definitely has a chance of being better than Kung Lao, people are really underestimating the changes he got in the recent patches. He's not gonna sky rocket all the way to A+ but his normals have definitely gotten a lot better and he can function like a proper character now. I didn't put him in B+ since we all know from past experience that when Kenshi gets buffs it might not mean anything, so he's B tier with a (+) for now.
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Dankster Morgan said:
He has the best d4 in the game, good d1, d3 is ok even though minus 9 kinda blows, f3 is great, his overhead string is miles better than Lao's. Definitely at least debatable though, you're right.
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So a 11f d4 that's -6 on block is better than a 9f d4 that's -6 on block?
Yea I know Lao got nerfed but suddenly he's bottom 10? Everyone's been exaggerating his weaknesses way too much. The Fisticuffs and Tempest comparison is legit because everyone agrees that Fisticuffs is solid mid tier, it proves that Tempest, with all his tools is also solid mid tier
Derptile said:
Kenshi definitely has a chance of being better than Kung Lao, people are really underestimating the changes he got in the recent patches. He's not gonna sky rocket all the way to A+ but his normals have definitely gotten a lot better and he can function like a proper character now
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More specifically, which variation of Kenshi is better than Tempest? And how can Kenshi's normals be better than Lao's?
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
YoloRoll1stHit said:
So a 11f d4 that's -6 on block is better than a 9f d4 that's -6 on block?
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Well I guess not purely for fisticuffs. But for A-List I do think it is the best in the game. Yeah it's 11 frames, and can be SKRC to be less minus on block, but it low profiles a lot of things including many mids, plus a billion on hit, then f3 into free chip. But fisticuffs doesn't have the sexy cancels so i guess you're right in that direct comparison, but it being 11 frames is worth the trade off for A-List imo.
 
Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
YoloRoll1stHit said:
So a 11f d4 that's -6 on block is better than a 9f d4 that's -6 on block?
Yea I know Lao got nerfed but suddenly he's bottom 10? Everyone's been exaggerating his weaknesses way too much. The Fisticuffs and Tempest comparison is legit because everyone agrees that Fisticuffs is solid mid tier, it proves that Tempest, with all his tools is also solid mid tier

More specifically, which variation of Kenshi is better than Tempest? And how can Kenshi's normals be better than Lao's?
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Kenjutsu and Possessed, more specifically Kenjutsu. I never said his normals were better than Lao, I said they've gotten better from what they used to be.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Quiet props to Ferra/Torr's d.4.
I forget how fast it is, like 12 frames I think, but it reaches hella far, +1 on block and +25 on hit I think.
 
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