What's new

Discussion MKXL Character Learning Curve Rating System

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Based on the 5 tier system here is an example of each category imo
Beginner: Bojutsu Kung Jin
Easy: Ninjutsu Scorpion
Normal: Grandmaster Sub-Zero
Hard: Aftershock Tremor
Very hard: Brood Mother D'Vorah
I honestly would swap Bojutsu and Ninjutsu. I literally don't use Ninjutsu. At all. I guarantee I could go and do his combos perfectly rn. D4 and F2 are like autofootsies along with him having good jump mobility with Ji3 (good luck anti airing that) and the tele. Imo I feel like Ninjutsu has just about everything you want in a character. I think he's the character I'd point to, to someone who's new. Plus he's stronger than Bojutsu for sure
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I honestly would swap Bojutsu and Ninjutsu. I literally don't use Ninjutsu. At all. I guarantee I could go and do his combos perfectly rn. D4 and F2 are like autofootsies along with him having good jump mobility with Ji3 (good luck anti airing that) and the tele. Imo I feel like Ninjutsu has just about everything you want in a character. I think he's the character I'd point to, to someone who's new. Plus he's stronger than Bojutsu for sure
Combo execution for them is identical in terms of ease imo

Ninjutsu is a better character but bo isn't bad

Ninjutsu's gameplan at a high level vs good players is harder imo
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Combo execution for them is identical in terms of ease imo

Ninjutsu is a better character but bo isn't bad

Ninjutsu's gameplan at a high level vs good players is harder imo
I feel like Bojutsu at a high level varies in difficulty dependent on the opponent.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
@Boss Savage After re-reading the OP and the differentiation between the difficulty for picking up a character to play and master at a competitive level, I'm not sure where the latter would be for Venomous. I really don't think it's competitive at all. She could very well be bottom 5 in the game when played at the highest level of competition, and the only thing possibly keeping her from it is universal D'vorah normals are pretty good.

I guess that doesn't really matter though. We're looking at difficulty to master, not whether the variation is actually competitive though. Her game plan just doesn't have any layers. She used to have some armor breaking setups, but the patch killed those. The basic level of casual play is pretty much mastered Venomous. She just doesn't have enough tools for anything else.

The only thing that might pose a problem in mastery is truly optimizing your damage is difficult to say the least. It's not a question of simply knowing the optimal combos, which are for the most part also difficult, but knowing how many poison stacks are on your opponent when you started the combo, since it can be much more damaging to do something different if the first poison period expires mid combo. Ideally, you want the last few ticks to happen outside the combo, where they aren't scaled. I don't know anyone that does this, honestly. More trouble than it's worth, frankly.
 
@Boss Savage After re-reading the OP and the differentiation between the difficulty for picking up a character to play and master at a competitive level, I'm not sure where the latter would be for Venomous. I really don't think it's competitive at all. She could very well be bottom 5 in the game when played at the highest level of competition, and the only thing possibly keeping her from it is universal D'vorah normals are pretty good.

I guess that doesn't really matter though. We're looking at difficulty to master, not whether the variation is actually competitive though. Her game plan just doesn't have any layers. She used to have some armor breaking setups, but the patch killed those. The basic level of casual play is pretty much mastered Venomous. She just doesn't have enough tools for anything else.

The only thing that might pose a problem in mastery is truly optimizing your damage is difficult to say the least. It's not a question of simply knowing the optimal combos, which are for the most part also difficult, but knowing how many poison stacks are on your opponent when you started the combo, since it can be much more damaging to do something different if the first poison period expires mid combo. Ideally, you want the last few ticks to happen outside the combo, where they aren't scaled. I don't know anyone that does this, honestly. More trouble than it's worth, frankly.
Thank you for your detailed explanation. It's information like this that helps people in picking up a character. I mean if the person enjoys using the character then more power to then. But if they're looking to pick up someone that's competitively viable but has a steep learning learning curve that doesn't bare fruit so to speak, then it's important for them to know information like this in order to avoid wasting time. Again thank you.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
I don't see how Unbreakable SZ is Hard or Blood God KK is Beginner to casually pick up, but as far as my characters go I'd say:

SHINNOK
Bone Shaper: Easy / Medium
Impostor: Easy / Hard
Necromancer: Medium / Hard (Very Hard is debatable as I'm yet to fully understand his new cancels, but for now I'd say Hard)

REPTILE
Noxious: Easy / Medium

KANO
Cybernetic: Medium / Hard

KOTAL KHAN
War God: Easy / Hard? (b1 hits high, his pressure requires way more brainpower now)

QUAN CHI
Warlock: Medium / Hard?
Sorcerer: Medium / Hard?

TRIBORG
Smoke: Easy / Hard?
Sektor: Easy / Hard?

BO RAI CHO
Dragon Breath: Hard / Very Hard?

TAKEDA
Shirai Ryu: Beginner / Medium?

SUB-ZERO
Unbreakable: Medium / Very Hard?

RAIDEN
Displacer: Medium / Very Hard?
Master of Storms: Hard / Very Hard

Shinnok, Reptile and maybe Kano are the only characters I feel very comfortable at, the others are more of a consideration than an actual rating.
 
Last edited:

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Dragon fire Liu is probably Very Hard
Br and SO Cassie are easy, Hollywood is Normal due to iag alone IMO
Actually Cassie (all 3 variations) has a lot of strict timing in her combos, but everyone can just choose an easier combo for 1-2% less damage so that's not a big deal anyway
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
yeah I definitely remember those days ;)
Even MIT still can't input Fatalities correctly lmao
Iol I have a friend who's the same way, he gets so mad lol. He was getting really pissed trying to pull off the brutalities when you have to hold down buttons or tap something really fast lol. Then I told him, here I'll show you do it like this he tries like 10 times, fails I get it in one shot he's like "Fuck you man" lol I actually know some friends online who bought the easy fatalities no joke lol.
 

oaoo94

Owner of HAZARDOUS Gaming
I don't see how Unbreakable SZ is Hard or Blood God KK is Beginner to casually pick up, but as far as my characters go I'd say:

SHINNOK
Bone Shaper: Easy / Medium
Impostor: Easy / Hard
Necromancer: Medium / Hard (Very Hard is debatable as I'm yet to fully understand his new cancels, but for now I'd say Hard)

REPTILE
Noxious: Easy / Medium

KANO
Cybernetic: Medium / Hard

KOTAL KHAN
War God: Easy / Hard? (b1 hits high, his pressure requires way more brainpower now)

QUAN CHI
Warlock: Easy / Medium
Sorcerer: Medium / Hard

TRIBORG
Smoke: Easy / Medium?
Sektor: Easy / Hard?

BO RAI CHO
Dragon Breath: Hard / Very Hard?

TAKEDA
Shirai Ryu: Beginner / Medium?

SUB-ZERO
Unbreakable: Medium / Very Hard?

RAIDEN
Displacer: Medium / Very Hard?
Master of Storms: Hard / Very Hard

Shinnok, Reptile and maybe Kano are the only characters I feel very comfortable at, the others are more of a consideration than an actual rating.
His DB1 and Cancel should only be used as an oki tool. You're not going to get much mileage from it in the neutral.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
His DB1 and Cancel should only be used as an oki tool. You're not going to get much mileage from it in the neutral.
you are talking about Necromancer? if so I don't see why: you have time to run cancel it and punish a run in even in neutral if they respect you other full screen tools.
 

llabslb

R1D1_998
These are the characters I have the most knowledge of. I think all of them are pretty easy to pick up and understand but I ranked them anyways.

Grandmaster : Potato tier

Flame fist: Potato tier

Dualist: Normal

Dragons fire: Hard

A List: Hard

Commando: Normal

Cut throat: Normal
 
These are the characters I have the most knowledge of. I think all of them are pretty easy to pick up and understand but I ranked them anyways.

Grandmaster : Potato tier

Flame fist: Potato tier

Dualist: Normal

Dragons fire: Hard

A List: Hard

Commando: Normal

Cut throat: Normal
Thank you for your input. Would you consider these ratings the introductory level, or the final mastery level?

As in you would say picking up Commando Kano has a normal learning curve? Such as picking up the character from a beginner's standpoint is a normal difficulty? Or that mastering the character to a competitive level is a normal difficulty? Please let me know.
 
Kitana is not easy try doing instant air fans and tell me thats easy.
it's so damn easy. Way easier to do than any other instant air shit in this game
That's easy
One thing to keep in mind is that once a skill is learned, it becomes more easily applicable to a similar situation.

So, for a beginner, instant air anything can be difficult. But once learned, can be applied to any character capable of the same feat.

So in this regard i would that yes, kitana's IA fans are "easy" to do. But only after considerable practice. So in the end i would give them a Normal difficulty rating with everything said and done.

Does that help clear everything up?
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Scorpion
Ninjutsu - Easy/Hard (execution is easy, playing at the highest level is hard)
Hellfire - Hard
Inferno - Normal

Kung Lao
Tempest - Normal
Buzzsaw - Normal
Hat Trick - Very Hard

Bo' Rai Chi
Drunken Master - Very Hard
Bartitsu - Easy
Dragon Breath - Normal

Liu Kang
Flame Fist - Easy
Dragon Fire - Hard
Dualist - Very Hard (Using the dark form is now much more dificult, there is a lot going on for him, it requires some good coordination)

Kung Jin
Acestral - Hard
Shaolin - Normal
Bojutsu - Easy

Tanya
Pyromancer - Normal
Kobujutsu - Normal
Dragon Naginata - Hard (but not that hard).
 
This was a mistake on my part. I've never played the character and assumed by someone else's opinion that they were a difficult character to pick up. Again not their fault. But mine for not knowing Better.

What would you say is the proper rating to give this character?
Potato, my grandma can win with tier.
 

llabslb

R1D1_998
Thank you for your input. Would you consider these ratings the introductory level, or the final mastery level?

As in you would say picking up Commando Kano has a normal learning curve? Such as picking up the character from a beginner's standpoint is a normal difficulty? Or that mastering the character to a competitive level is a normal difficulty? Please let me know.
Assuming we're talking about a player who has been playing MKX since release then commando kano is relatively simple to play. It's not hard to apply his game plan in most MU's and the execution requirement isn't that difficult (I'm not talking about his optimised stuff). Assuming you're using a total beginner as a basis for this then you could argue that every character is 'very hard' to an extent.

What sort of players do you have in mind when making this and what sort of level of play are we talking about here. At high level, you can argue that Blood God is more difficult than A-List. I think it's better for you to use players that are some what competent.
 

Zaccel

Noob
I'd say Reptile is on the easier side. Deceptive feels Easy since it has some slight frame theory and meter management, and Noxious as Beginner since it barely innovates on Reptile's well-rounded moveset and simple universal execution.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
I'd say Reptile is on the easier side. Deceptive feels Easy since it has some slight frame theory and meter management, and Noxious as Beginner since it barely innovates on Reptile's simple, well-rounded movement and simple universal execution.
while I agree that Noxious is easy, I wouldn't go as far as say it's for Beginners. I expect a Beginner character to have 50/50s or some incredibly good and easy to use tool to open up an opponent (like Takeda's NJP), while Reptile still has to do staggers as he can't live with just 50/50s, I agree though that he is often forgiven for not respecting - frames.